I just cancelled my Ebay account

[Norma Desmond]

<p>I think it's possible that not every situation is black and white, such as this one. Maybe the buyer is not a cheat and the seller is not a fool. I often get home from making a purchase (usually locally, as that's the way I like to shop) only to discover there's something I didn't realize about the purchase I made. I'm not one who goes around pre-approving every purchase I make or googling stuff all the time, though I do some amount of research for certain things. If I get caught unawares after a purchase, I don't assume the seller was a crook nor do I have to think of myself as a fool for my lack of advance knowledge. I chalk it up to the way the world sometimes works.</p>

<p>Maybe this eBay affair was just an unfortunate circumstance. These things happen. Best thing to do is try and resolve it. If the company is now telling you there's nothing you can do, that may be the case, and you have to consider it a learning experience. Best advice I've read on this thread is to sell it yourself, hopefully to someone who knows more about the product and its needs. That would minimize the loss and show all the outrage on both sides to be a waste of time.</p>

<p>If you go the credit card route, they'll want you to explain the details and when they learn what actually happened, they won't withhold the funds, though they will do that temporarily while your complaint is being investigated. If it's investigated, my guess is they will come down on the side of the seller. I feel badly that William is out money for something he now finds out he can't use. But my feeling badly for William doesn't mean I think the seller did anything wrong. It's possible for bad stuff to happen even when no one is being or trying to be a bad guy. That's life.</p>

[andylynn]

<blockquote>

<p>"But mercury batteries if their existence ever known about, for me or true for average Buyers, will not be a question that pops up. Nor batteries a research area. Why should they be?"<br /> <br /> The fact of the matter is, mercury batteries were used by pretty much all manufacturers of cameras and lightmeters throughout the 60's and early 70's. The reason being was that they did not suffer a drop in voltage as they discharged. This was very important in early camera meters that depended on accurate voltage. If mercury batteries had not been banned by most governments, they probably would have stayed in use until rechargeable batteries became commonplace. If you are interested in older cameras and equipment, this is an issue that comes up often.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>If you do any research at all it's bound to come up. If you Google the meter in question, the first hit is the manual on the Butkus site and the second is a forum discussion on the mercury battery issue.</p>

<p>I really don't think it's appropriate that a seller should have to take a loss because a buyer has no knowledge of the product he's buying. What if a buyer bought a Golf TDI and then demanded a refund because it only takes diesel? Or a manual focus lens, and demands a refund because it doesn't auto focus? I've had that happen. I've also had a buyer who demanded a refund because he found a spot on a lens I'd sold him under a microscope. (Literally - he showed me the photo of the spot and told me how he took it, and I figured out that he was looking at it at 200x magnification.) Buyers on eBay have a lot of leeway to abuse sellers, and sellers can't do much about it because the buyer can ding the seller's feedback and force a refund by telling the credit card company a one-sided story, but sellers have almost no recourse against problem buyers except to go to court (which is almost always too impractical).</p>

[finnegan]

<blockquote>

<p>"It's rare that a seller says, "gotcha!" And it's even more rare that ebay backs such a seller. (Maybe I don't know all the facts.) That's just not how modern internet commerce works."<br>

</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No, what I wrote was it, not complicated. I've bought and tried two subs for the mercury that didn't fit in the unit. i'll try some more, but see I don't agree with you or others that the Seller should know these older units take mercury batteries because mercury batteries are out of the lexicon of average Buyers. Same with CV joints in cars. I know what one is and that at a certain car age they can need replacing, possible. But for the average buyer that is not in the lexicon of car questions. If it was, the level of automotive research necessary to buy a car would be ridiculous. </p>

<p>Buyer Beware is a good attitude, but as a legal necessity it is variable. So, what may be termed items a part of the sales unit expected to function properly or be present, if they are not otherwise brought up in the ad, carry the expectation of being present, and working, or being an auxiliary that will function when purchased with the unit: the expectation is that there is no problem.</p>

<p>So if a CV Joint is all screwed up the Seller cannot claim: "You should have asked"</p>

<p>If there is such a problem, the Seller should state it or the Buyer may not be bound by the sale.</p>

<p>On the other hand, if the item sold is a used suit and the Ad stated sizes in S M L XL, if the Buyer gets a Small suit and it's still too large he has no complaint, inherent in buying a suit you can't try on, is that a size SMALL, may not describe your degree of "Smalllness". That's an inherent risk.</p>

<p>It's the same principle as Safety in Occupations: when I was a Steelworker and working at the Blast Furnaces, I couldn't claim as a Safety Violation that it was "TOO HOT". It was "too hot" but that is an inherent risky condition of steelmaking. However, if the Company failed to provide heat-resistant coats and face shields and boots, legal safety equipment to survive those temps, I could complain - and win. Because without legal safety equipment, human beings will die from fire-ignition in those conditions. You are two steps away from molten, flaming pig-iron. In the olden days the Blower of the Blast Furnace actually speared a clay-filled hole the size of large manhole cover with an oxygenated lance in the bottom side of the Furnace, about 15 stories high and filled with molten pig-iron. Guess what would happen next?</p>

<p>BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! MOLTEN-PIG-IRON ERUPTION out the side of that furnace, just behind the running-away Blower. Now they have a remote controlled lance to pierce the clay. But You Better Be Way Outta There when that special horn/siren blows or you will be a crispy.</p>

<p>For me and most, batteries in light-meters would be expected to be purchasable, as Heat Shields would be expected, as functioning CV joints expected in used cars. If they weren't, it should be stated or returns allowed. Anyway, that's me. </p>

 

[finnegan]

<blockquote>

<p>"Yeah, with that complaint in your past, the ebay people probably saw a pattern, which is probably why they decided for the seller. Just my guess. Honorable dealing work both ways -- or at least should."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sarah,<br /> Please read what I just posted 3 times in response to this and DO NOT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS - also read my Ebay history, the very long post.<br /> <br /> <strong>This Thread's great value is the demonstration of how an assumption made in the complicate absence of Knowledge-Of-Fact becomes widespread FACT for so many so quickly - why compulsive modern media kills the political process by substituting through the same process instant vomiting of false-private-fact about politicians obliterating actual political life.</strong></p>

<p>All because of little me? I could care if people take my camera episode they're in ignorance of for whatever they like. The facts of that are well known, to several organizations as well as individuals, and even if none knew, or all were wrong - EYE know.</p>

<p>There's a wonderful and moving age-old Buddhist parable/story that tells this tale, wonderful!</p>

<p>Alas, not the place or time.</p>

<p>Anyway, Ebay was a pain in the butt so I left it. I may go back some time. This is not a serious moment in my life and I have a wry attitude about it and my leaving.</p>

<p><strong>And this Thread with the surprise revelation of a past I've had amnesia about so long, a past of murder and unspeakable acts of evil and depravity making ISIS blush, well, it's became a pain in the butt too. </strong><strong>What the _ _ _ <strong>with all this personally directed invective? This is a professional site.</strong></strong><br /> <br /> Who needs this in their life. <em>Exeunt.</em></p>

<p><em>For so many with real feedback: MUCH THANKS! </em></p>

<p> </p>

[BrianS1664879711]

Sounds like you did the right thing for all involved.

But don't blame eBay; that's not right or fair.

[thomas_k.]

<p>I have over 10 years experience buying/selling on eBay both personally and professionally. My experiences have been overwhelmingly positive. Yes, I had some duds when I lost money but I recouped it in other transactions. Ebay is a conglomerate of millions of buyers and sellers with all different manners, tempers, convictions and levels of knowledge. For someone who wants to buy with more reliable return/exchange policies: KEH, B&H and Adorama's used departments are a good option. Also Amazon and it's sellers offer used equipment backed up by good policies.</p>

[Brad_]

Kenneth, what is the frequency?

[AlanKlein]

<p>Am I missing something here? The buyer is complaining that the seller should have known about the mercury battery problem but the buyer didn't have to know about the problem. Why is the buyer allowed to be dumb and not the seller? </p>

<p>Also, who says that a buyer wants to use something they purchase. Many people are collectors. There are loads of cameras collectors who just buy cameras but never use them. They wouldn't care if batteries to operate the built-in light meter are obsolete and not available. The seller assumes the buyer has done some homework and knows at least what he want to buy, especially when it comes to old electronic stuff.</p>

[dave_s]

<p>(i) Brad is being enigmatic, if not opaque: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Rather#.22Kenneth.2C_what_is_the_frequency.3F.22">*click*</a><br>

(ii) The issue about the battery is silly. Of course you should know what you are buying, before you buy it. To quote the much-missed JDMvW, Google is your friend. <br>

(iii) eBay is great for certain things: second-hand books, batteries and cords for old electronics, parts for things that aren't made anymore. I've almost never had a problem with eBay buyers or sellers. It's a good way to reuse and recycle.</p>

 

[GerrySiegel]

A Judge Judy matter. When we get into ifs ,buts, and expectations in a contract. eBay is a contract matter with the seller and the market place. You got a decision and the appeal court and a kind of satisfaction....... the specific case is now moot. As to decision to not trade on eBay for photo stuff over this incident, I agree about cutting off your nose to spite your face. eBay has gained legitimacy over a long run so I do not knock it anymore as I once did. ( Prefer KEH and B and H for used stuff)

 

I bought an eBay stereo hand viewer recently from someone I knew, from past transactions. Takes alkaline D cells, has a still common flashlight type screw base for the little lamp. With Google it is a snap to check such stuff out. And I did. (I think Judge Judy would throw out the case on appeal. )

[david_carroll4]

<p>Having sold a fair number of older photographic items on eBay over the years, I can't remember a single time when I specifically stated that an item required mercury cells, except to point out the fact that the item had been converted to run on silver cells (the conversion being a significant selling point) or to indicate that I didn't know of the item was functional, asI didn't have the requisite batteries to test it. Beyond that, the issue of what batteries the item used just never came up. Looking back, I imagine I assumed that someone who was bidding for a old film camera would know enough enough that they were buying to know what batteries it took. If a buyer had tried to return such an item for a battery usage issue, I might have taken it back, but I would certainly have felt under no obligation to do so, nor can I fault the OPs seller for not taking the item back.<br>

What mercury cell alternatives has the OP tried, and in what way did they not work? Most replacements, like wein cells or zinc-air hearing aid batteries can be jury-rigged to work. I use a CRIS adaptor in my F-1, which works fine.</p>

[stephen t]

<p>Well, I got through the first two pages, but will go ahead and comment without reading the last two.</p>

<p>I believe the seller was justified in refusing a refund. The listing specified "no returns." If I were the seller, I WOULD have allowed the refund, relisted the meter, and mentioned that it originally specified mercury batteries.</p>

<p>William, I believe there are zinc-air hearing aid batteries that are inexpensive and will fit just fine and the meter will be quite usable. I think they are 675's.</p>

<p>I have purchased many items using the auction site and have only had ONE transaction over the years that required the site's assistance: a medium format lens ABSOLUTELY eaten up with fungus and listed as being in excellent like new condition.</p>

<p>I don't think a problem seller will last long - I always check a seller's feedback number as well as their score - low in either makes me asks them some questions about the item.</p>

[donald_miller5]

Do not understand what the commotion is about including myself. Some one expressed an opinion and did not get the

support he wanted and is now very angry. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. At some time anyone of us could be in the

same position. Just accept it for what t is. Don't go away mad, just go away.

[hjoseph7]

<p>Life goes on...</p>

[finnegan]

<blockquote>

<p><a href="/photodb/user?user_id=3940672">Donald Miller</a> <a href="/member-status-icons"><img title="Subscriber" src="/v3graphics/member-status-icons/sub8.gif" alt="" /><img title="Frequent poster" src="/v3graphics/member-status-icons/1roll.gif" alt="" /></a>, Jun 13, 2015; 04:33 p.m.</p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote>

<p>Do not understand what the commotion is about including myself. Some one expressed an opinion and did not get the support he wanted and is now very angry. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. At some time anyone of us could be in the same position. Just accept it for what t is. Don't go away mad, just go away.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I don't care about any support for the light meter. I stated the reasons for the reaction I had, and if you read the first and initial post it is humorous and not angry.</strong><br>

<strong> </strong><br>

I AM finished with being the receiver of personality-related judgements based on a reference to a past problem no one making the judgements had the faintest knowledge of. And I don't hang around a PHOTOGRAPHY forum to be called a "DICK" for it by some ignorant guy behind a keyboard likely 2000+ miles away for heaven'ssake, puleeaaase! These "moral-arrogants" go call Chase and tell them all about it. But my staying around here? You gotta be kidding. That's my choice and I made it. It has zip to do with my first post.</strong><br>

<strong> </strong><br>

Who needs that stuff in their life? You?</strong><br>

</strong><br>

And THAT is what I wrote, not what you "ASSUMED" I wrote.</strong><br>

<br>

Farewell from Thread-C932,657 to those who are normal, pleasant folks. and now i better keep to my word and not open this thing again<em>.</em></strong></p>

[andylynn]

<p>This is a misunderstanding. I'm not criticizing you with that language, I'm criticizing your actions. You've never explained how keeping the seller's camera and the money was not a malfeasance, and it's very difficult to accept that it was not without some sort of back story that shows how not returning the camera when you received your refund was the correct move, so the criticism that you apparently bragged about stealing a camera is unanswered.</p>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>Using equipment that was designed to use mercury battery is not a good idea. You can make it works with Wein cells and other method but none is worthwhile except for nostalgia. Buying for use I would avoid mercury battery at all cost as meter designed to depend on the stable voltage of mercury battery simply isn't a good design. <br>

But with all that the seller doesn't have to take back your purchase as he/she didn't mislead you in anyway. </p>

[Damon DAmato]

<blockquote>

<p>Is that a serious or dripping-with-sarcasm remark?</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p><br />Not sarcastic about ebay siding with buyers. <br /><br />Ebay, as Sarah agreed, has the reputation of siding with buyers, even in some pretty clear-cut buyer-at-fault situations. I've avoided getting on the wrong side of things by including very diligent disclosure of condition, lots of photos, and just plain being honest. <br /><br /></p>

[Matt Laur]

<blockquote>

<p>Do you ask about the condition of transmission transfer bars in pre-2010 cars you're scoping to buy? Do You?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Poor analogy. A better one would be seeing a listing for a Volkswagon passenger car and not bothering to ask if it's gas or diesel. Yes, I'd ask that. Just like I'd take 10 seconds to google a make and model of a piece of old equipment to make myself aware of any surprises before I commit to buying it. I would do <em>exactly</em> that - especially because the level of effort required is a fraction of the effort it took you to make your first post on the subject, here. </p>

[andylynn]

Exactly. There's a difference between taking issue with condition and taking issue with a product's design. The O.P.'s

complaint is not that the seller failed to deliver a Honeywell Pentax One Twenty One meter in good condition, it's that the

buyer did not familiarize himself with what a Honeywell Pentax One Twenty One meter is before ordering it. It's like if I

sold a guy a Nikon camera and then he threw a fit because it doesn't take Canon lenses.

[wogears]

<p>Curiously, I just bought an OM-1 body on eBay. I knew from checking Google that the original mercury battery was no longer available, but that a Wein cell replacement could be easily obtained. What the seller hadn't mentioned, anywhere in the listing, was that the camera had the clear matte screen designed for lenses of 300mm or above. I wrote to him, he agreed that the screen should have been mentioned, and immediately offered to send me either a used standard screen or a "parts camera" he might have lying around. I gladly accepted. Problem solved. This is my usual eBay experience. Sellers have been glad to help, and I have been glad to accept and give good feedback.</p>

[William Kahn]

<p>Several years ago, I bought a mint-condition (really!) Olympus OM-1 at a ridiculously low price and, of course, had to replace the original mercury battery with a WeinCell. No problems at all. I don't think the difference of 0.05 volts is at all significant. The only problem I've had with an eBay transaction several years ago, where the seller sold me a 150mm lens for my old Mamiya C330, which turned out to have a completely non-function aperture adjustment. The guy refunded me about $150 of the purchase price. I no longer have the camera, but still have the lens. It makes a great door stop.</p>

<p>Other than that......Welcome back, Off Topic Forum! :-))</p>

[BrianS1664879711]

I would have thought that almost anyone would

have been happy getting a meter like that in

original box for $40...

[John Seaman]

<p>Interesting to note Jochen's gentle reminder that he pointed out the possibility of the meter requiring obsolete batteries in an earlier thread on 26 May.</p>

<p> </p>

[bebu_lamar]

<blockquote>

<p>I would have thought that almost anyone would have been happy getting a meter like that in original box for $40...</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

If you are collecting but not if you buy something to use.</p>