Allen Herbert

<p> "have a conversation at the polar opposite, where a message was explicitly intended that we hoped was successfully conveyed"</p> <p>Okay, perhaps a little bit of imagination is required.<br> .</p><div></div>

<p>The true Artist finds their way only if ,like the candle, they are only their own fuel, consuming themselves.</p>

<p>J"the message should be in a language they can understand. Just like wanting to converse with someone speaking another language"</p> <p>But why would a Photographer/Artist seek to please others? It is a very nice thought that folks like to please others....but Im not sure how true that is in the real world.<br /> Perhaps adoration is what they are seeking.</p> <p>Doing their own thing I would have thought most folks do; and if others like it....well, that is nice with the kindness of sharing.</p> <p>Sometimes I think photography is turning into some sort of popularity contest. The real deal is individuals expressing their natural desires to create Art. Fust for their personal satisfaction... and if others like it well that is nice too.</p> <p> </p>

<p>Okay,Fred. Thanks for your thoughtful input and everyone else.</p>

<p>Advertising is bragging about a product and we all know how successful that is. Perhaps, sharing and a bit of bragging from photographers can be a virtue. Maybe then we will not have to wait for their work to be discovered in a shoe box and exploited by someone else. Of course most (hobby) photographers take photographs for their own personnel satisfaction and a way of expressing their Art....Art is in all our souls; seeing beyond. But it is nice to share and maybe brag a bit.</p> <p>Just a thoughts in all due modesty;)</p>

<p>"but I can't allow you to open the door with such blatant accusations without responding to them"</p> <p>What blatant accusations? And what am I getting away with? for sure many brave folk have/ are fighting for their country and values but why bring that into the conversation?</p> <p>Modesty is considered a virtue but is it always a value.</p> <p>Very few of greats of photography, to my mind, were not really modest in the sense of the word but played the modest game.<br> .</p>

<p>" Mohammed Ali. Nobody loved him for a long while...indeed he was hated"</p> <p>A braggart and a black man who refused to fight for his country.</p> <p> And a black power Muslim. </p> <p>But he had a dream to be the heavy weight champion of the world, and follow his own convictions and believes....the honesty of the time was that most folk wanted him to be humiliated and defeated. Moving forward in time how many would like the thought of a gay heavyweight champion who would not fight for his country?</p> <p>So, the question is....modesty, the lack of courage, believe and conviction? The blending in.<br> .</p>

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<p>Post your photo of the week or follow this weeks theme "affection".</p><div></div>

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<p>" Hollywood <a id="itxthook5" href="/philosophy-of-photography-forum/00cudO?start=10" rel="nofollow">stars<img id="itxthook5icon" src="http://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/lb_icon1.png" alt="" /></a>, theater people, pop phenomena, some folks feel free enough to actually be who they are. Could it be that the rest of us living our "real" private lives are the ones faking it?"</p> <p>Being themselves and turning their dreams into realities. Turning our dream into a reality is that what our true desires are...being our real self's escaping from the mundane and seeking out the real persona and truths it has to offers.</p> <p>Is our "true self" the "dream"</p>

<p> " Ali the man was actually known to be quite reserved and humble". </p> <p>Methinks not...</p> <p>He was never humble or reserved today or yesteryear. He has/has a strong self believe and truly believed he is/was the greatest.</p> <p>And not just in his boxing skills, but in his strength of character, to follow his beliefs and not to be bullied into submission. </p>

<p> " Ali the man was actually known to be quite reserved and humble". </p> <p>Methinks not...</p> <p>He was never humble or reserved today or yesteryear. He has/has a strong self believe and truly believed he is/was the greatest.</p> <p>And not just in his boxing skills, but in his strength of character, to follow his beliefs and not to be bullied into submission. </p>

<p> Some folk believe this site is really about old codgers who just want to moan.....methinks pre- conceived thoughts</p> <p>Give them wings and they will fly. </p>

<p>Start posts which interest you.</p> <p>How very simple is that to understand instead of waiting for someone else to do it for you.</p> <p>Sharing is good that is what everything should be about not being up your arses.</p>

<p>Nappy changing rooms are second left third right. Try to keep your babies from crying too load as the old codgers are second on the right and will get the hump.</p> <p>Flying dentures, red faces, and shaking walking sticks. Best let them snore peacefully and not to bother them.</p>

<p>" It is time that we demand accountability from NM".</p> <p>So, funny.</p> <p>I demand that everyone should bow down to me, kiss my arse, as im a very important person. So there.</p> <p>PN is very open... so, contribute and post the subjects what you are interested in no one is stopping you.</p> <p> </p>

<p>The Photograph</p> <p>Two pretty girls.</p> <p>On using her natural talent to self promote the other working modestly in a shop. </p> <p>"+1 Wouter, as usual.<br /> The greatest artists are too busy thinking of art to spend any time worrying about self-promotion".</p> <p>Let us have a think about the truth of the above posts.</p> <p>How many really great photographers work is still hidden away in shoe boxes....Vivian Mailer comes to mind! Perhaps some self promotion would have opened that work....</p> <p>Then ask the question among the "great" how many self= promoted their work or got others to do so? Then ask yourself the question does self-believe have to be modest... Does self-believe require modesty and waiting for some nefarious something to happen to give a stamp of approval.</p> <p>A braggart nobody likes but is it because they have self-believe and refused to except the conformity of the masses.....white shirts rule do not wear anything else. Conform, do not be different. </p>

<p>Moaning, moaning, what else can they contribute?</p> <p>About what? As it is, it is easily the best photography site on the web....by light years. Try contributing instead of being a moaning git. Most of the names on this post most I have never heard of..</p> <p>Create your own PN if you do not like it.</p> <p>And goodbye.</p>

<p>"Modesty in the arts is often passive-aggressive hubris in disguise".</p> <p>So, play the modesty game....and hide behind it. Let us hubris in disguise in a aggresive way or perhaps we are showing a lack of conviction and character. Lots of great Artists seemed to lack a hubris of disguise...so many to name.</p> <p>A slave to the establishment in the hope of some gold coin much like Judas or a hubris in disguise.</p>

<p>Modesty....what a word.</p> <p>Truly great/creative people are always modest so we are told.. Indeed great photographers are generally considered modest.....but are they really?</p> <p>Why not say you are great....think of Mohammed Ali. Nobody loved him for a long while...indeed he was hated.</p> <p>Modesty, a culture believe? A lack of self of self esteem.?</p><div></div>

<p>Brothers.</p>

<p>Charles, Jim....your unique vision.</p> <p>Eddie...always special.</p><div></div>

<p>Artists work in all mediums.</p> <p>Why would one be more special than other?</p> <p>Only the lost would think otherwise.</p>

<p>"Dogmatism"</p> <p>A sad reflection of humanity.</p> <p> </p>