The iPhone photographer

[Allen Herbert]

"A photographer went to a socialite party in New York" Ion.

A  photographer went to a party. A socialite party....obviously only wicked folks would attend..

[Allen Herbert]

Too many wicked folks in this world.

He looks sus.

 

 

[Allen Herbert]

Jeez, some folk live in a peanut shell.

[Allen Herbert]

"In a break with the Florentine tradition of outlining the painted image, Leonardo perfected the technique known as sfumato, which translated literally from Italian means "vanished or evaporated." Creating imperceptible transitions between light and shade, and sometimes between colors, he blended everything "without borders, in the manner of smoke," his brush strokes so subtle as to be invisible to the naked eye" Quote.

[Allen Herbert]

Indeed, the craft, and craft ,was of great importance.  Art, does not result from magic purely from imagination The Art of Craft and materials are very much involved. They are also creative Art, no different from any other Art.

Imagination creates Art/Craft. Craft is just another name for Art.  Same journey of imagination.

"My screwdriver is way better than your screwdriver. That's what I hear when I see"  David Caravan.

Of course, be happy. in your thoughts. He invented a better screwdriver.: happy days.

 

 

#

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Allen Herbert

[mikemorrellNL]

My guess is that the vast majority of 'photo-takers' do so on their mobile phones. They may not be passionate 'photographers' but they do regularly (or often) take photos and want to quickly share them with friends. Also, it seems to me that a lot of people (like me) use mobile phone cameras and digital cameras side by side. In the sense of 'whatever does the job' and 'whatever you have available'.

Another thought was that not only improved mobile phone lenses might be a deciding factor to upgrade a mobile phone but also improved all-round functionality, including in-phone image (and video) processing. I recently saw a phone ad that seemed to include an 'AI app' to manipulate photos. So that the 'subject' was moved within the photo. Something that takes more time in Photoshop,

If you google, there's quite a bit of research on 'mobile phone marketing' and 'mobile phone camera use'.. These links are just 2 examples:

- Why do we market phones as cameras? (Medium)

- DSLR Owners love Their Smartphone Camera as much as You do (Techpinions)

My take is that 'passionate photographers' use phones in their photography just as much as they use their digital cameras. Somewhere in this research, there's a comment that people often use their mobile phone cameras as a memory aid. This certainly applies to me!
 

[samstevens]

55 minutes ago, mikemorrellNL said:

Another thought was that not only improved mobile phone lenses might be a deciding factor to upgrade a mobile phone but also improved all-round functionality

I find myself upgrading merely to annoy trolls and curmudgeons on the internet! 😎

[Allen Herbert]

"l find myself upgrading merely to annoy trolls and curmudgeons on the internet! " Sam.

Seems rather expensive expensive thing to do, Sam. Hey, Ho if you feel you have righteous cause, why not, if it makes you happy. Perhaps, you should start a post on what you feel significant in the photographic world.

Hey, do not leave all the posts to those "trolls and curmudgeons" Sam, your righteous/faith will prevail.

Promise.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Allen Herbert

[Allen Herbert]

Tick Tok goes the clock.

The smart phone has already taken over P/S camera market And in the not so distance future the rest of the market .Does it matter? Well, if your photography is just about pressing a button on a very poor handling device, it does not. 

The reality is convenience/simplicity without having to think are the operative words.

[samstevens]

How much one thinks or should think is debatable when out taking pictures. A lot of my shooting, even when in fully manual mode on my dslr (which is how most of my photos are taken) is done as much by instinct as by thinking. I tend to do my thinking when post processing and before I go out to shoot, when I may think about what I'm after on that day. I also do more thinking when I'm posing people or shooting documentary work.

So, here's a photo I took with my phone. I had a couple of seconds to think about where I wanted the reflections and what I wanted to include in the frame. But I'd say most of it was guided by my experienced vision at the time and shooting instincts I've developed over the years. Sure, one can think about what settings to set on a camera, and it's often worthwhile to do so. One can also think about composition, lighting, shadows, reflections, narrative, context, textures, and all the other things in addition to camera settings. None of those things go away when one uses a phone camera. Of course, one has to use a phone camera to actually experience what it's like. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by samstevens

[mikemorrellNL]

17 hours ago, Allen Herbert said:

Tick Tok goes the clock.

The smart phone has already taken over P/S camera market And in the not so distance future the rest of the market .Does it matter? Well, if your photography is just about pressing a button on a very poor handling device, it does not. 

The reality is convenience/simplicity without having to think are the operative words.

I generally agree with you, Allen. My very first (digital) camera was a Canon G5 which I bought 20 years ago. It was a 'point and shoot'(P&S) camera which I - for work- exclusively used on 'automatic'. The G5 also had the option of dialing in manual settings. It was through playing about with these manual settings that I started te learn the basics of 'photography'. But I suspect that the vast majority of P&S users did just that: point and shoot (on automatic) by pressing a button and not having to thin.k.

Fast forward to 2023. A good P&S camera still costs around $1000. Roughly the same price as a top model mobile phone. P&S cameras may still take better quality photos than a mobile phone. But my guess is that the vast majority of mobile phone users prefer to spend around $1000+ on a top model mobile phone rather than slightly less + another $1000 for a P&S camera.
My take is that that advances in mobile phone camera technology (lenses + software) has made the 'added value proposition' of a P&S camera much less attractive. As you say, both P&S cameras and mobile phone cameras are about 'convenience/simplicity without having to think' too much. For most people, using their mobile phone cameras to take and share photos is more convenient than carrying and using a separate P&S camera. The video below (while being a clearly sponsored video from  - for me - an unknown tech company called Oppo),  gives IMHO good illustration of how current mobile phone software contributes to the 'image quality' from mobile phone cameras.

Bottom line: tech inevitably becomes either outdated, economically unviable and usually both.  It seems that P&S camera's have (largely) had their day.

Why the Smartphone Killed the Point & Shoot Camera (11 mins)

Edited December 2, 2023 by mikemorrellNL

[samstevens]

2 hours ago, mikemorrellNL said:

As you say, both P&S cameras and mobile phone cameras are about 'convenience/simplicity without having to think' too much. For most people, using their mobile phone cameras to take and share photos is more convenient than carrying and using a separate P&S camera.

I don't understand why we're talking about most people instead of ourselves. The fact is I consider myself a photographer and am perfectly able to use my cell phone camera thoughtfully and successfully, no matter what the masses do (who shouldn't be expected to want to do anything more than push a button and get a pic they're happy with). Nowadays, my iPhone is able to shoot RAW and I am able, if I choose, to control much more than I used to. So using phones doesn't have to be a matter of pushing buttons with no thought. Those who use them and explore their capabilities with a keen eye know that.

Edited December 2, 2023 by samstevens

[Allen Herbert]

 "lot of my shooting, even when in fully manual mode on my dslr (which is how most of my photos are taken) " Sam. 

Of course. Most of your photos. 

""most of my photos are taken) is done as much by instinct as by thinking. Sam", .Methinks most photographers like to think, Sam. About about composition, shutter speed  etc. Okay, you like to press that big button without any thought whatsoever.

Nice fairy tale. "fully manual mode on my dslr (which is how most of my photos are taken). Sam.

Hmm.

 

 

[Allen Herbert]

Interesting link.

I have a Oly 2n and a Rolliflex T. Why would I buy a M6 film camera? What does it offer me any different...Image quality,? The Rolliflex T is on a very different level.

Of, course all electronic cameras have a relative short shelf life. For instance, Leica no longer supports the Leica M9, despite their claims on the web. And soon the M240.

Hey, Ho a Leica is for life. Funny, and totally untrue.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90985730/leica-m-series-analog-film-digital-photography

Edited December 2, 2023 by Allen Herbert

[Allen Herbert]

What does it offer me any different...Image quality,? Allen

Fondle quality. Prestige Quality.

Okay, I get it..

[samstevens]

If the shoe fits ...

collaboration: photo by samstevens, title by A. Herbert

fondle quality

[Allen Herbert]

The dude has a nice full, Barnet, Sam .Is it you in your younger days.? Fingers rather scaggy, don't you think?

Nice collaboration between us. 

We should do it more often.

[mikemorrellNL]

On 12/2/2023 at 5:31 PM, samstevens said:

I don't understand why we're talking about most people instead of ourselves. The fact is I consider myself a photographer and am perfectly able to use my cell phone camera thoughtfully and successfully, no matter what the masses do (who shouldn't be expected to want to do anything more than push a button and get a pic they're happy with). Nowadays, my iPhone is able to shoot RAW and I am able, if I choose, to control much more than I used to. So using phones doesn't have to be a matter of pushing buttons with no thought. Those who use them and explore their capabilities with a keen eye know that.

I was just responding to @Allen Herbert's comment about the impact of phone cameras on the market for P&S cameras and possible impact for other cameras. Not to mention on the (?) demand for professional photographers. In general, I think it's absolutely fine to consider and discuss photography and market trends for equipment. Not just for people who consider themselves 'photographers' but for 'most people' too. Who probably don't label themselves as 'photographers'.

For me, PN would become qualitatively poorer if we just 'talked amongst ourselves' without considering what's going on in the wider world.

Let me give just one example of how current trends have affected my work as a voluntary photographer for (people and events).

My digital photography process is still pretty 'old school'. I mainly use a DSLR (with a phone sometimes), take plenty of different shots, review these at home and select the best ones. I adjust these as I think necessary (cropping, white balance, noise reduction, etc.) on a big screen. Before I even get home, pretty good photos /videos (as perceived by participants) - and taken with a phone camera - have already been shared within groups or on social media. The main value of these photos/videos to the participants is the immediacy of the digital distribution and the relative ''good enough' quality when viewed on a mobile phone or on social media. Mobile phone apps allow users to quickly and easily select photos and also do many of the 'adjustments' that I do at home with Adobe Lightroom & possibly Photoshop.

Yes, when I - 2-3 days later - publish and share my selected and adjusted photos online, I usually get great comment from participants who also view my photos on a big screen. But I'm always aware that they've often already seen the 'mobile phone versions'. I have no ambitions to compete with mobile phone users at an event. I still believe that the time I spend on selection and adjustment is worthwhile.  I also just  prefer to view and adjust photos and videos on a big screen rather than on a mobile phone screen. Thankfully, I'm usually asked back🙂.

 

This image is floating around various websit.es and FB sites since 2007 but to conform to PN rules, this image is sourced from Flickr user Electric-Eye under CCO license (CC BY-NC-SA 2.0)

Edited December 5, 2023 by mikemorrellNL

[samstevens]

On 9/22/2023 at 1:04 PM, Allen Herbert said:

Yes, he is a very special photographer, he uses a iPhone. And yes, the majority of photographs are taken with a iPhone.

iPhone photographers are very special ....they do not need a camera.. Because they are used by   special extra boring folk who think train spotters are mad folk taking steroids'.

I cannot think of anything more boring than taking a photo with a iPhone, or, perhaps, watching paint dry... Okay, maybe knitting,  particularly the cross stich. 

@mikemorrellNL, This is the OP. It was the premise of the thread. Take it or leave it. That’s what I and others have been responding to, despite subsequent drifts and deflections.

I understand you’re using a cell phone in a particular way, for its utility and not delving into its creative aspects. But Allen’s been putting anyone down who claims it can be used in a distinctively artistic or creative way and that’s both a narrow-minded and misguided view.

[Allen Herbert]

 "But Allen’s been putting anyone down who claims it can be used in a distinctively artistic or creative way and that’s both a narrow-minded and misguided view." Sam.

Did I.? Read my posts Sam:? Doubt you have.

All I have said is a smart phone is a poor photographic device.. You, have agreed ,as you use a high end Canon in manual mode for your serious photography.

Indeed, one of my favorite photographers is Brad Evans. He uses a iPhone ,but is a accomplished photographer, not a button presser.

Lets be honest what has the iPhone got to do with photography unless in skilled hands.. Very little.

Press a button little else involvement.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Allen Herbert

[samstevens]

18 minutes ago, Allen Herbert said:

what has the iPhone got to do with photography unless in skilled hands

What has any camera got to do with photography except in skilled hands?You’ve got a bug up your butt about iPhones and can’t seem to let it go. One might ask what that’s got to do with photography. You’re the one who felt the need to bring it up instead of bringing up something that actually does have to do with photography. Next time, think before you hit the confirm button. 

[Allen Herbert]

So, I suppose is the tool so much a lesser thing to create the Art, so much lesser than the imagination ,of the pure imaginative , Art?

Really,  it must be a very simplistic mind, that the Art can express itself without the tool of imagination.

Suppose substances do that.

But where do they take you other than no where, Sam.

[Allen Herbert]

"You’ve got a bug up your butt about iPhones and can’t seem to let it go." Sam.

Chill out just a chat, Sam. Little else.

"lot of my shooting, even when in fully manual mode on my DSLR (which is how most of my photos are taken) " Sam. 

I believe you. No need to keep repeating it.

No need to call folks names about bugs up their buts and such things. 

Silly Billy thing.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Allen Herbert

[mikemorrellNL]

FWIW: A couple of weeks ago, a colleague asked me to take 1 'special' photo at the end of a 'mini-conference' of 115 people this afternoon (at which I was also a conference participant). The initiatief for the mini-conference was the (official) retirement of the director of a local welfare organisation that I've done all sorts of voluntary work for during the past 10+ years. So my primary role was as a 'mini-conference participant'.

[inoneeye]

 

button pusher