Interesting DSLR MONO from Pentax.

[mike_halliwell]

I wonder if Nikon could be persuaded to go down this rote as a specialist camera? Remember the D810A?

https://us.ricoh-imaging.com/product/pentax-k-3-mark-iii-monochrome/

Edited April 14, 2023 by mike_halliwell

[BeBu Lamar]

I don't think so. If they wanted they would have done it before when Leica had their Monochrome.

[mike_halliwell]

4 minutes ago, BeBu Lamar said:

they would have done it before

Indeed.. but the imaging World has progressed regressed to 'retro' film with all it's new B/W trendy followers.

Maybe some don't want the 'faff' of film but want results?

[BeBu Lamar]

35 minutes ago, mike_halliwell said:

Indeed.. but the imaging World has progressed regressed to 'retro' film with all it's new B/W trendy followers.

Maybe some don't want the 'faff' of film but want results?

Film and B&W kinda have to stick together thsese days. It makes little sense if you shoot film and don't do your processing and doing your color processing today it's near impposible. I gave up when B&H stopped shipping RA-4 chemistry. There are certain things Nikon doesn't dare to to and I think monochrome is one of them and the other is a digital camera without the LCD and still another is a digital camera with no AF. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by BeBu Lamar

[mike_halliwell]

2 hours ago, BeBu Lamar said:

Film and B&W kinda have to stick together these days

I'm guessing Leica, and now Pentax, have different ideas!

The Pentax is 1/2 the price of getting a Nikon digital F or Z body mono converted.....🙂

[BeBu Lamar]

1 hour ago, mike_halliwell said:

I'm guessing Leica, and now Pentax, have different ideas!

The Pentax is 1/2 the price of getting a Nikon digital F or Z body mono converted.....🙂

Leica doesn't have the problem because they have a business model that works well with low volume sales. I guess now that Pentax can't sell a lot any way they can do the low volume thing. 

[ShunCheung]

1 hour ago, BeBu Lamar said:

Leica doesn't have the problem because they have a business model that works well with low volume sales. I guess now that Pentax can't sell a lot any way they can do the low volume thing. 

I sure hope that Nikon will not go down the same road as Leica and Pentax, at least as far as cameras go. I wonder for how much longer Pentax can survive, regardless of whether they produce any mirrorless cameras. Leica is in a totally different league. I had purchased my first Leica body and lenses three years before I bought my first Nikkormat body, but that is also the last Leica body I have bought so far, although we use their binoculars.

[BeBu Lamar]

1 hour ago, ShunCheung said:

I sure hope that Nikon will not go down the same road as Leica and Pentax, at least as far as cameras go. I wonder for how much longer Pentax can survive, regardless of whether they produce any mirrorless cameras. Leica is in a totally different league. I had purchased my first Leica body and lenses three years before I bought my first Nikkormat body, but that is also the last Leica body I have bought so far, although we use their binoculars.

 

1 hour ago, ShunCheung said:

I sure hope that Nikon will not go down the same road as Leica and Pentax, at least as far as cameras go. I wonder for how much longer Pentax can survive, regardless of whether they produce any mirrorless cameras. Leica is in a totally different league. I had purchased my first Leica body and lenses three years before I bought my first Nikkormat body, but that is also the last Leica body I have bought so far, although we use their binoculars.

I think Nikon counts on people like you who would definitley not want a monochrom only camera nor camera without AF or LCD. The cameras they offer today aren't all that difference from the one you bought before the Nikkormat. 

[mike_halliwell]

Someone was allowed to run with the the D810A.

If a mono sensor is a 'simple' shoe in..😉

and maybe a very niche 'halo' project....... what's the problem?

Edited April 14, 2023 by mike_halliwell

[Mary Doo]

Please help me understand why people would be eager to pay $2,200 for a camera that only captures monochrome images, when it is possible to convert any picture to B&W effortlessly? Moreover, there is software available that can provide a "vintage," "retro," "contemporary," or even a "normal" look.  I can comprehend individuals who purchase monochromatic Leica/Hasselblad due to the status they provide, but I think Pentax and Nikon purchasers may not have the same motivation.

[mike_halliwell]

15 minutes ago, Mary Doo said:

ease help me understand why people would be eager to pay $2,200 for a camera that only captures monochrome images, when it is possible to convert any picture to B&W effortlessly?

In my case, maybe unusually, I'd use it for multispectral imaging where you don't want any in-camera messing with the actual signal. 

Afterall, all sensors are mono until a CFA is applied.....!

Edited April 14, 2023 by mike_halliwell

[mike_halliwell]

17 minutes ago, Mary Doo said:

Leica/Hasselblad due to the status

LMAO 🤣

Edited April 14, 2023 by mike_halliwell

[Mary Doo]

Just now, mike_halliwell said:

🤣

Some people still carry a Rolex watch when a cell-phone makes a lot more sense.  😉

As a photographer, speaking from my own perspective rather than that of a collector, using a monochromatic camera is a bad idea because this means I would carry an extra piece of equipment (dreadful) in addition to two color cameras and lenses - on a non-casual shoot.  To ensure capturing the best possible shot, I would most likely end up using two cameras.  Totally unnecessary.  Not doing it.  Don't want to be a masochists.  🤣

[mike_halliwell]

I think, some how, this is meant for imaging purists....?

This might be me, for forensic reasons.

However, I can get a Z7 mono, for ~$5K.

[c_watson1]

I don't readily associate "Nikon" and "innovation." Their tardy shift to MILCs seems proof of that. Pentax can do what it likes with Ricoh's blessing. Leica will always be there for the well-heeled. Fuji's Acros film sim was a considerable selling point for its cameras that offered it. Niche product? Isn't that true of most photographic gear now?

[Mary Doo]

8 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

I think, some how, this is meant for imaging purists....?

This might be me, for forensic reasons.

What is the purpose of forensic imaging and how could "pure" B&W be uniquely (?) useful in this area?

[mike_halliwell]

Have a look at Multi or Hyperspectral Imaging. It's a bit like spectroscopic imaging.

It stems from taking a set of individual mono images at a bunch of specific wavelengths, either by filtration or illumination..... and comparing.

The 'pure' bit is necessary so as to remove the false colours produced by the CFA layer to replicate the human response to the World.

For fine-art, it enables differentiation between similar (to us) pigments.  Fluorescence and/or differential reflection/absorbtion is very specific to individual materials.

It would enable you to tell whether a pigment is actually green or a mix of yellow and blue that looks green.

One of it's specific benefits is it extends the sensor's 'vision' into the IR and UV ends of the spectrum.

 

[hjoseph7]

They are throwing spitballs a the wall hoping that one will stick !

[mike_halliwell]

18 minutes ago, hjoseph7 said:

spitballs

The mechanics of just swapping the sensor type from colour to B/W is pretty simple.

Custom firmware, I guess. But it's a pretty cost effective trial!

Probably even easier with a mirrorless as there are no AF implications......😉

[BeBu Lamar]

15 hours ago, Mary Doo said:

Please help me understand why people would be eager to pay $2,200 for a camera that only captures monochrome images, when it is possible to convert any picture to B&W effortlessly? Moreover, there is software available that can provide a "vintage," "retro," "contemporary," or even a "normal" look.  I can comprehend individuals who purchase monochromatic Leica/Hasselblad due to the status they provide, but I think Pentax and Nikon purchasers may not have the same motivation.

That is why so far only Leica could do it. I am not sure how sucessful Pentax will be. I am sure Nikon doesn't dare to go that route. The Nikon Df is as far as they dare to go. I knew it back in 2013. 

[Mary Doo]

2 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

ave a look at Multi or Hyperspectral Imaging. It's a bit like spectroscopic imaging.

It stems from taking a set of individual mono images at a bunch of specific wavelengths, either by filtration or illumination..... and comparing.

The 'pure' bit is necessary so as to remove the false colours produced by the CFA layer to replicate the human response to the World.

For fine-art, it enables differentiation between similar (to us) pigments.  Fluorescence and/or differential reflection/absorbtion is very specific to individual materials.

It would enable you to tell whether a pigment is actually green or a mix of yellow and blue that looks green.

One of it's specific benefits is it extends the sensor's 'vision' into the IR and UV ends of the spectrum.

Mostly over my head 😉  What is the frequency of these tasks that you need or like to perform?

Think Photoshop (and some other programs)  has the color analysis of a converted B&W image and one can tweak it.

[Mary Doo]

1 hour ago, BeBu Lamar said:

That is why so far only Leica could do it. I am not sure how sucessful Pentax will be. I am sure Nikon doesn't dare to go that route. The Nikon Df is as far as they dare to go. I knew it back in 2013. 

Don't think Nikon lacks the technical ability to do it, but rather the reason for not doing it probably lies elsewhere.

[ben_hutcherson]

In my mind, there should be a difference in results between going through a Bayer array and then undoing the interpolation(which is what converting to B&W in post does) and just not having the Bayer array at all.

Granted the advantage to the former is that you can add filter effects in post, but the latter should give you cleaner results. You just need to revert to using filters as you did/do with B&W film. The results I've seen from the Leica monochrome cameras are impressive.

I'd have a hard time even paying new Nikon money for a dedicated monochrome camera. With that said, if I ever had a chance at a reasonably priced newer Kodak monochrome I'd buy it. To me the DCS 760m to pair with my 760c would be great, although I've not used the latter very much. I say those specifically because they can be had for reasonable priced-the monochrome versions just aren't that common.

[Mary Doo]

Wait a minute, can't one set a Nikon camera to shoot in B&W mode?  Some Nikon cameras may also allow adjustment of the contrast and other settings to create a custom black and white look.  

How "pure" does one need to be?  😎

, 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Mary Doo

[BeBu Lamar]

1 hour ago, Mary Doo said:

Don't think Nikon lacks the technical ability to do it, but rather the reason for not doing it probably lies elsewhere.

Didn't I say DARE? They lack the courage not technical know how because all those things requires less technical not more. For years to survive Leica had to market their products to certain type of customers and those customers are more likely to buy those cameras. Nikon customers (or Canon, Sony) are not like those and thus they don't dare to introduce camera like that.