HMVF Advanced Hybrid Multi Viewfinder

[hjoseph7]

It seems that Fuji solved the EVF(electronic vie finder) vs OVF(optical view finder) dilemma. They use this technology on their X-Pro2 cameras. Advanced Hybrid Multi Viewfinder of X-Pro2 Part1 | | FUJIFILM Digital Camera X Series & GFX – USA

I'm not sure how it works, since I'm still reading about it, but this is great news for Mirror less camera fans.

 

I would say that the EVF was the #1 reason I tended to avoid Mirror Less cameras, since I was very sceptical on how these devices would work under bright sunlight. Another reason was that the EVF did not look natural to me, although I have not looked at the latest EVF's. Last time I took a peek at one at the local Bestbuy, was about 3 years ago and I was not that impressed.

 

So how did Fuji do this ? Do they slap a little mirror in there when you flip the EVF/OVF switch ? Apparently Fuji had this technology since 2010 with their X100T range Finder medium format digital camera but I never heard about it ?

I think they refined it and put it in their X-Pro1 and X-Pro2 cameras. If that's the case I don't think you are getting a pure OVF like we have on SLR/DSLR, but a simulation using Range Finder technology.

[Ken Katz]

I think the camera offers a unique but rather expensive (compared with other Fuji X cameras with similar specs) alternative to those who want a rangefinder like experience in a modern MILC, but it is not really compatible with many users needs (zoom lenses, super WA, telephoto, macro, ect). The EVF in my lowly Olympus EM-5 III is more than adequate for me, but far below state of the art EVF specifications (like in the latest MILCs from Nikon, Canon, and even OM), so I don't see others going this direction.

[httpwww.photo.netbarry]

I use this camera and it actually has 3 viewing modes. One is just the OV which just uses the Optical Viewfinder with frame lines but there's no focussing aid. You rely on the camera in auto focus to come up with the correct focus though it does have a focal spot that you can move around and the focus will follow that spot. It also uses a parallax spot connected to it that you can set in the menu. Then there's a 2nd OV method that is as described, but then it super-imposes an EVF spot in the lower right of the frame, that reflects the focus of the movable spot I mentioned.and you can use it to check focus and if functions much like the range finder spot on a Leica. You can set the method to split screen, or highlight the area in focus.

 

Then there is the Full EV.

 

"Simulation using Range Finder Technology"

 

Not quite sure what your saying. Range finders use mirrors, But the Fuji X-Pro2 isn't a Range Finder. It has a Viewfinder. Technically a Range Finder camera like a Leica M, is a Range Finder/View Finder. The field of view is purely and optical image through its viewfinder. The range finder is the second mirrored part of the whole finder which provides that little focus spot in the viewfinder. Though the X-Pro2 isn't a Rangefinder Viewfinder camera, it does have an Optical view finder, meaning no electronic image reproduction that you can then add a smallish EV focal spot that functions very much like a Range Finder.

 

"Do they slap a little mirror in there when you flip the EVF/OVF switch ?"

I do think they have might as when I switch modes using the little lever, there is like a click and something moves and then activates the EV or the EV spot in the OVF.

 

Also to answer the Ken Katz's remark about using zooms, they work perfectly well in EVF mode but yeah it's a postage stamp like on a 70-300.

 

 

Clear as mud?? :).

[httpwww.photo.netbarry]

I meant in OVF view. Zooms work like any other camera with an EVF.

[hjoseph7]

"Technically a Range Finder camera like a Leica M, is a Range Finder/View Finder. The field of view is purely and optical image through its viewfinder. The range finder is the second mirrored part of the whole finder which provides that little focus spot in the viewfinder. Though the X-Pro2 isn't a Rangefinder Viewfinder camera, it does have an Optical view finder, meaning no electronic image reproduction that you can then add a smallish EV focal spot that functions very much like a Range Finder."

 

I had to read it twice, but I think I got it.

[httpwww.photo.netbarry]

It's not a bad system, but I find I like to see the focus more clearly and so I tend to use the EVF and it's not been a problem for me.

[Jochen_S]

I handled an X-Pro2 briefly at a mall and wasn't overly impressed.

• Switching modes took a while.
  
• Full EVF seemed neither big nor high res.
  

What would you use an OVF for, when your lens lacks the engravings and mechanically coupled distance ring for zone focusing?*

The hybrid mode seemed "strange" to me and the digital patch to crude to judge focus. I guess I 'd rather have an OVF near an EVF, like RM & VF on Leica II or Polaroid 240 and a chance to keep focuing loupe mode active.

*= I have early Fujis and am unhappy with EVF-lag indoors. So yes, optical finders can be desirable. OTOH flipping back and forth for almost every shot might wear out mechanisms? I 'd be scared.

[httpwww.photo.netbarry]

I handled an X-Pro2 briefly at a mall and wasn't overly impressed.

• Switching modes took a while.
  
• Full EVF seemed neither big nor high res.
  

What would you use an OVF for, when your lens lacks the engravings and mechanically coupled distance ring for zone focusing?*

The hybrid mode seemed "strange" to me and the digital patch to crude to judge focus. I guess I 'd rather have an OVF near an EVF, like RM & VF on Leica II or Polaroid 240 and a chance to keep focuing loupe mode active.

*= I have early Fujis and am unhappy with EVF-lag indoors. So yes, optical finders can be desirable. OTOH flipping back and forth for almost every shot might wear out mechanisms? I 'd be scared.

Depends on what lens you use. The 23 1.4 and 14 2.8 have all the markings. But if you didn't like, that's your experience. I've been using one for 5 years, I have no trouble changing from modes, seeing through the EVF nor any resolution problems with the EVF. The hybrid is is a bit strange, and I don't use it much, but it does have some uses, especially if you buy into the old Leica selling point of being able to see what's on the outside of your frame lines. To me it didn't seem a big deal to look through a DSLR, or a Range finder, except that some SLR/DSLR's don't give you a 100% view, where I believe the EVF and the OVF do. As to the rest of your experience. Experiences differ. Why buy or use something you didn't like if you have a choice?

[Jochen_S]

... some SLR/DSLR's don't give you a 100% view, where I believe the EVF and the OVF do. As to the rest of your experience. Experiences differ. Why buy or use something you didn't like if you have a choice?

I doubt any OVF to offer 100% view. Frame lines are usually off, or adjusted for a certain distance.

I didn't dive deep enough into Fuji, to know the lenses you mentioned. I only have the cheap consumer zooms, which seem fly by wire. I 'm not entirely unhappy with what I got and might take them on weight and risk conscious vacations, if times feel right for such again.

[httpwww.photo.netbarry]

I doubt any OVF to offer 100% view. Frame lines are usually off, or adjusted for a certain distance.

I didn't dive deep enough into Fuji, to know the lenses you mentioned. I only have the cheap consumer zooms, which seem fly by wire. I 'm not entirely unhappy with what I got and might take them on weight and risk conscious vacations, if times feel right for such again.

The OVF definitely shows at least 100% of the view. It actually shows much more and works like the frame lines in a Leica M if you've ever used one of those. The frame cubes might not be completely accurate,I just checked and apparently they are 5% off regardless of distance, which does have a parralax correction built in I believe. However, the top and left frame lines are completely accurate and those edges are what the edges of the photo will be. According to the "wisdom of the web" :) But also on the Fuji forum where it was discussed. I just checked it out on mine and it seems to be that way, definitely the left and top edges look pretty accurate.

[httpwww.photo.netbarry]

Jochen, hope I wasn't confusing. The OVF shows much more than 100% percent, but as you said the frame lines are not totally accurate. The top and left frame lines are accurate, the right an the bottom can be as much as 5% off.

[Niels - NHSN]

I own an X-100F (with a 35mm equivalent fixed lens) and the OVF is god-sent for people like me who learned photography with a rangefinder. It is the only digital camera I have ever owned that I would buy again if lost.

 

The frame-lines represents 92% of the image and compensates not only for parallax but also for the field of view variations that occurs at different distance settings. In that way it is superior to Leica's finders.

 

There is no distance scale on the lens, but it can be brought up in the finder or on the rear screen.

 

I don't recognise @http://www.photo.net/barryfisher statement of accurate framing of the top left corner on this particular model. The framing discrepancy appear to be fairly even on the 100F.

 

I have personally set the review function so the just taken image flashes in the viewfinder so I don't have to remove my eye. The swap between OVF and EVF appear to be instantaneous.

 

I exclusively use the camera in AF but there are seemingly endless possibilities for customising focusing and review functionality.

 

The optical viewfinder is an expensive addition which does nothing for the quality of the images and is only relevant for those who appreciate an optical viewfinders like those found in Leica - and as such it is a small niche but obviously big enough to justify several iterations and improvements over the past decade.

I doubt that SLR users would find this finder worth its premium.

 

I also think it is very difficult to explain how well it works. It takes an effort to set up the camera to ones preferences - just picking one up and play with it for a few minutes is probably not going to sway anyone towards a purchase decision - especially when they see the price tag - I would rather say that it takes a leap of faith.

In my own case, I wouldn't have taken the jump if the camera wasn't offered to me at 1/3 of new price. Now I would buy a new one at list price in a heartbeat.

[httpwww.photo.netbarry]

Left corner/top framing accuracy. I read this on a Fuji forum and then tried it out myself and it seemed to be true, but looking at NHSN's remark, I tested it again, and on my example using the OVF frame lines. The result showed the photograph pretty accurately lining up on the left and top. The trick is the line up is accurate before you halfway press the shutter which activates a parallax view where the frame lines move in the finder. If you recompose using the corrected view, the pic doesn't doesn't line up accurately. So you have to use the original lines and compose from that and not move the camera when they "correct". I think I can turn the correction off in settings, but need to study it a bit.

[Niels - NHSN]

I think you are right Barry.

[BeBu Lamar]

I own an X-100F (with a 35mm equivalent fixed lens) and the OVF is god-sent for people like me who learned photography with a rangefinder. It is the only digital camera I have ever owned that I would buy again if lost.

 

The frame-lines represents 92% of the image and compensates not only for parallax but also for the field of view variations that occurs at different distance settings. In that way it is superior to Leica's finders.

 

There is no distance scale on the lens, but it can be brought up in the finder or on the rear screen.

 

I don't recognise @http://www.photo.net/barryfisher statement of accurate framing of the top left corner on this particular model. The framing discrepancy appear to be fairly even on the 100F.

 

I have personally set the review function so the just taken image flashes in the viewfinder so I don't have to remove my eye. The swap between OVF and EVF appear to be instantaneous.

 

I exclusively use the camera in AF but there are seemingly endless possibilities for customising focusing and review functionality.

 

The optical viewfinder is an expensive addition which does nothing for the quality of the images and is only relevant for those who appreciate an optical viewfinders like those found in Leica - and as such it is a small niche but obviously big enough to justify several iterations and improvements over the past decade.

I doubt that SLR users would find this finder worth its premium.

 

I also think it is very difficult to explain how well it works. It takes an effort to set up the camera to ones preferences - just picking one up and play with it for a few minutes is probably not going to sway anyone towards a purchase decision - especially when they see the price tag - I would rather say that it takes a leap of faith.

In my own case, I wouldn't have taken the jump if the camera wasn't offered to me at 1/3 of new price. Now I would buy a new one at list price in a heartbeat.

 

I do not like the optical viewfinder like a Leica although I prefer the SLR finder and not the EVF. So this doesn't solve the problem for me.

[Niels - NHSN]

I do not like the optical viewfinder like a Leica although I prefer the SLR finder and not the EVF. So this doesn't solve the problem for me.

What problem?