Andrew Garrard Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Well, we did manage to divert to a discussion about travel cameras, Shun. Without even mentioning the P1000, I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Well, we did manage to divert to a discussion about travel cameras, Shun. Without even mentioning the P1000, I think! May be you can just bring a P1000 and a D850 and your widest lens only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 I often find out of all the focal lengths I take on holiday, it's the wider (widest!) ones that don't get much use, usually 'cos it's cloudy at night and I can't do astro or the landscape is not conducive to ultra-wide, ie no interesting foreground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Garrard Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 I've noticed that the Perseids perfectly coincide with when I'll be spending my time in downtown Vancouver without trivial transport to anywhere dark (although I have to drive the best part of a hundred miles to get away from the glow of London at home). I probably won't take the star tracker - I've carted it around the US before and never got to use it. I was in Yellowstone for the Perseids a couple of years back, but apart from being exhausted, I decided that standing on my own in the dark in an area where bears like to wander around might be unwise. I've used ultrawides quite a bit on holidays (the edge of the Grand Canyon and Bryce, Grand Prismatic, various places around Vancouver with hills or lakes). The 24-70 is most in question, but it's also the lightest; maybe I should take the 35 or 50 f/1.4 instead... I still wish Nikon would make some decent pancake primes. Mmm, pancakes. The couldn't be as pancaked on mirrorless (unless the flange distance is a lot more than we assume), but something not significantly thicker than the grip while still being autofocus would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Pancakes not good for small coach seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter Schaefer Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 I still wish Nikon would make some decent pancake primes. Mmm, pancakes. The couldn't be as pancaked on mirrorless (unless the flange distance is a lot more than we assume), but something not significantly thicker than the grip while still being autofocus would be nice. Just got me one - Samyang AF 35//2.8 - shorter (1.3" long without the hood and filter) than even the Zeiss-branded Sonnar 35/2.8 for the Sony E-mount. Does that qualify as "pancake"? Yeah, but then that's another camera in the bag. That was supposed to be instead of my D810. I'll be taking the A7RII with the 12-24/4 and am debating if I should leave the Nikon 16-35/4 VR at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Garrard Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Pancakes not good for small coach seat. Because they won't let you take a hob and frying pan on a Dreamliner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Because they won't let you take a hob and frying pan on a Dreamliner? Pancakes makes you too big to fit into the seat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Ingold Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Does Mirrorless usually show the stopped down view in the EVF and/or back screen? I can only speak for the Sony. In auto focus, the diaphragm remains open until focus lock is achieved, then stops to the preset value. If you select the "Live Preview" or manual focus modes, the lens stops down as soon as you change the setting. In other words, you always have a DOF preview at the time of shooting. There is no delay between continuous shots for the diaphragm to open and close. Any focus change with aperture is automatically corrected. Stopping down tends to cause hunting in AF-Continuous mode. Phase detection is ineffective below f/5.6, so contrast detection takes over. Peaking is based on edge contrast in the image, and functional (equally ineffectively) at any aperture. Using 6x focus magnification for manual operation quickly dispels the myth of DOF. You can focus as precisely at f/11 as f/2. Nikon could handle the diaphragm differently, or offer an optional "DSLR" mode - open until the time of exposure. Are you listening, Sony? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 I guess the old 45mm 2.8 is pretty pancakey? BeBu, I have a feeling you cannot have a fast pancake...;) " offer an optional "DSLR" mode - open until the time of exposure" I like it, it's the obvious way to implement the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Garrard Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) Just got me one - Samyang AF 35//2.8 - shorter (1.3" long without the hood and filter) than even the Zeiss-branded Sonnar 35/2.8 for the Sony E-mount. Does that qualify as "pancake"? Kind of? The 45mm AI-P is 0.7" (17mm). The 50mm E series I have is 1.3" (33mm). Pentax have a 40mm f/2.8 that's 9mm long. They have longer mounts, though. My 14-42PZ on micro 4/3 is 27mm long, which still makes the camera fit in a compact camera case (mostly unlike the Coolpix A...) - my 20mm f/1.7 is 26mm, but obviously they both have reduced coverage. Edited July 31, 2018 by Andrew Garrard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 I guess the old 45mm 2.8 is pretty pancakey? BeBu, I have a feeling you cannot have a fast pancake...;) " offer an optional "DSLR" mode - open until the time of exposure" I like it, it's the obvious way to implement the difference. Pancake is for Andrew. I don't like pancakes because: 1. I actually love the real pancake but I can't eat the syrup as I have to keep my sugar intake low and eating pancake without syrup? No thanks. 2. I hate the pancake lenses because they don't look good in my opinion. They are too small for even cameras like the FM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter Schaefer Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) Pentax have a 40mm f/2.8 that's 9mm long So does Canon - and that one has AF. obviously they both have reduced coverage There are quite a few available in that category: Sony has a 20 and a 16 for APS-C, Canon has a 24; they are all f/2.8. For their mirrorless, Canon has a 22/2. The 45mm AI-P is 0.7" (17mm). The 50mm E series I have is 1.3" (33mm). Yeah, but I would like them to have AF. The M-mount Voigtlander Nokton 40/1.4 I had adapted to my Sony was also quite short - obviously adding the mount adapter didn't help matters. I thought that without a second teaser with a little more new information Yeah, what's up with that? Already a week has passed and nothing more from Nikon? Why did they even bother in the first place? As Andrew pointed out, this thread is still alive because it moved away from discussing the little that was actually revealed about the new camera. All one can do now is go that dedicated website Nikon put up and watch the counter counting down the seconds, minutes, hours, and days. Way to go Nikon! Fits with the wait-and-see attitude that seems quite apparent in this thread. Edited July 31, 2018 by Dieter Schaefer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Yeah, what's up with that? Already a week has passed and nothing more from Nikon? Why did they even bother in the first place? As Andrew pointed out, this thread is still alive because it moved away from discussing the little that was actually revealed about the new camera. All one can do now is go that dedicated website Nikon put up and watch the counter counting down the seconds, minutes, hours, and days. Way to go Nikon! Fits with the wait-and-see attitude that seems quite apparent in this thread. While plenty of us thought the teaser campaign for the Df in 2013 was done well, it is all very weird this time. Traditionally with Photokina starting towards the end of September, we know that most product announcements will be in the latter part of August through mid September, and perhaps all the way up to the start of Photokina. With a late August announcement, starting a teaser a full month ahead of that seems premature. It is hard to keep the interest up for that long without product specs. And merely two days after the initial, and so far only, teaser, Nikon formally announced the development of an FX-format mirrorless camera and dedicated lenses, specifying that there will be a new lens mount and an adapter for traditional F-mount lenses. That pretty much stole the thunder out of the teaser. And then a couple more days later, Nikon added a count-down clock to the teaser page, announcing that the formal announcement will be on August 23. It feels like different parts of Nikon marketing are not working in a coordinated fashion, or perhaps they feel that too much information are leaked by the various rumor sites so that Nikon themselves need to get ahead of the rumors. BTW, if Canon doesn't have a FX mirrorless camera to announce by Photokina, I can't imagine that they are very far behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter Schaefer Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 While plenty of us thought the teaser campaign for the Df in 2013 was done well It worked well because it teased about something unexpected - which certainly is not the case this time around. Two important pieces of information have already been revealed - new mount and FX. All everyone wants to know now are the specs and whether they match or even exceeds what Sony offers - there's preciously little to tease about. And, of course, which lenses will be available from the get-go and a roadmap to what will be available in the near future. It's awfully quiet around Canon - what I could find isn't more optimistic than a possible development announcement at photokina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Well, rumors about a possible FM2 - like digital camera did float around for years before the Df's launch, so if it was unexpected, it wasn't that way for everyone. I guess tomorrow we can post some images to take the attention away from the lack of information about the new mirrorless from Nikon. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter Schaefer Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Well, rumors about a possible FM2 - like digital camera did float around for years before the Df's launch, so if it was unexpected, it wasn't that way for everyone. My memory may not serve me well in this regard but it seems to me that there weren't actual rumors about such a camera being in the works than the desire by a few that Nikon might produce one. At least as I remember it, the Df came as a surprise - and was not what many would have wished an FM-D to look like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Speaking of lenses, 11 years ago Nikon did manage to announce five high-end, pro-grade lenses at once to accompany the announcement of the D3. Therefore, it is entirely possible for Nikon to introduce a few dedicated lenses for mirrorless, along with the 500mm/f5.6 PF in F mount. (Or maybe the 500mm PF will be in mirrorless mount? ;)) But for a change, I agree Nikon needs to announce some sort of road map with a few more key lenses coming in 2019, along with some relatively affordable mirrorless bodies (i.e. like a D750). I wasn't paying attention to it when Canon announced the new EOS system with the new EF mount back in 1987, but according to what I read afterwards, Canon introduced a lot of new lenses quickly to establish the new system. Nikon will need to do something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeBu Lamar Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Speaking of lenses, 11 years ago Nikon did manage to announce five high-end, pro-grade lenses at once to accompany the announcement of the D3. Therefore, it is entirely possible for Nikon to introduce a few dedicated lenses for mirrorless, along with the 500mm/f5.6 PF in F mount. (Or maybe the 500mm PF will be in mirrorless mount? ;)) But for a change, I agree Nikon needs to announce some sort of road map with a few more key lenses coming in 2019, along with some relatively affordable mirrorless bodies (i.e. like a D750). I wasn't paying attention to it when Canon announced the new EOS system with the new EF mount back in 1987, but according to what I read afterwards, Canon introduced a lot of new lenses quickly to establish the new system. Nikon will need to do something similar. My guess is that Nikon will announce 3 lenses on Aug 23. They shouldn't have problem introducing more lenses quickly because except for the short end they can easily modify the E type lenses for the new mount. But if the camera itself doesn't sell well then they may not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Well it's not likely they'd do "easy modification" to convert DSLR lenses to mirrorless; they will likely design the new lenses thoroughly, taking time to optimize the lenses for the shorter flange distance, new AF motors and focus groups, etc. and generally going for higher end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieter Schaefer Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) Speaking of lenses, 11 years ago Nikon did manage to announce five high-end, pro-grade lenses at once to accompany the announcement of the D3 That was finally adding VR to the 400/2.8, 500/4, and 600/4 (which are all new lens designs). And introducing the 14-24/2.8 and 24-70/2.8; the 70-200/2.8 VR II came in 2009 to complete the trio for the working professional. Certainly one of the most successful simultaneous releases in Nikon history. Canon introduced a lot of new lenses quickly to establish the new system The list of lenses is available here: Canon EF lens mount - Wikipedia in 1987 Canon introduced 6 (consumer-grade) zooms and 6 primes with the new mount (with the 300/2.8 the first USM lens). Edited August 1, 2018 by ShunCheung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Garrard Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 So, there's . Anyone want to play name the cameras? I'm assuming "new dimension" doesn't mean light field, although kudos if they've taken my "rear movements" suggestion. (An alarming thought as I type this on the toilet...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodeo_joe1 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) "I wonder if they'll ever make any more 'niche' cams such as the D810A..... Monochrome maybe?" - Like a desaturate tool wasn't available in every image editor worth using? So. Hands up; who's actually clamouring to be first in line to be a guinea-pig for the Nikon MILC? I certainly wouldn't be interested until at least 6 months after release and any teething problems had been ironed out. Edited August 2, 2018 by rodeo_joe|1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 I'm assuming "new dimension" doesn't mean light field, although kudos if they've taken my "rear movements" suggestion. (An alarming thought as I type this on the toilet...) I think people are overanalyzing what is presented. New dimension can simply mean large sensor mirrorless with its own advantages and disadvantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 So. Hands up; who's actually clamouring to be first in line to be a guinea-pig for the Nikon MILC? I don't think there will be any significant problems; Nikon seem to be aiming at the high end with this product and the top cameras they release rarely have any significant problems (D800/E AF is an exception but I consider the earthquake and tsunami created chaos and infrastructure loss as the reason i.e. exceptional circumstances). However, I won't personally be buying this camera as I don't find EVFs suitable for my use. However, if Nikon use the new mount to introduce better PC lenses with better quality / simpler construction / lower price / greater freedoms of movements, then I may be purchasing a camera body and such lenses once available and if my financial situation permits (as I would mostly use these on tripod and using the rear LCD I would not have to use the EVF). I think this is likely within 10-15 years, and not any time soon. Also if they offer a really good implementation of fast electronic shutter with little rolling shutter artifact and provide suitable native lenses for indoor available light photography then I may consider it for those situations where I would benefit from silent operation of the camera, such as some musical and dance performances where the music is relatively quiet. But I think it will take several years to reach this situation and even then if Fuji or Canon offer optical viewfinders with their mirrorless cameras I may choose them instead of Nikon, to gain access to the silent shutter. For the foreseeable future, I plan on continuing to use F mount equipment as before. However, this is not because I don't believe the new camera will work well. I am sure it will, it is just not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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