Nikon New Camera Teaser, FX Mirrorless to be Announced on 23 August, 2018

[Ed_Ingold]

If I am not mistaken, then it doesn't update the viewfinder image at that frame rate - how can I follow a moving subject in that case?

Mistaken! The viewfinder updates 120 fps. Even the m2 versions update at 60 fps.

[Dieter Schaefer]

Just looked at a few reviews - they all state that the A7RIII at 10fps does not show live view but the last image taken (which equals an EVF update rate of 10fps, not 60 and certainly not 120). Live view is available at 8 fps. So the issue is not that how fast the viewfinder updates but with what. Edited August 14, 2018 by Dieter Schaefer

[Ed_Ingold]

If you're shooting 10 fps with an A7Rii, you see the stills of the last frame, with little or no blackout. While not truly continuous, it's not hard to follow action. In between stills, or when shooting video, the update is 120 fps, so it's easy to anticipate action or follow through. The A9 behaves entirely differently. The image is stripped from the sensor 10x as quickly, restoring live view between shots. At 1/100 second or faster, you can't see nor hear the camera as it is shooting, regardless of the speed. The viewfinder is like a window - a very clear window.

 

I'm not flogging Sony. My intent is to show what's possible. It's up to Nikon to hold or fold.

[Andrew Garrard]

Is the D500 buffer bigger than the D850 in DX crop? That's news to me.

 

The D300, like the D500, was never really a substitute for the unibody cameras - but a D200 isn't a D2x either. Nikon presumably felt, despite complaints, there wasn't enough market to rush a D400 during the period of the Sendai quake disruption. But they couldn't really leave the 7Dii to the market.

 

I suspect mirrorless DX will come. Whether it's a big money spinner is TBD.

[rossb]

Would Nikon at a later date put an APS-C sensor in a camera with the huge Z mount?

[mike_halliwell]

Ross, that is a very good question! I can think it would be great for shift lenses...:-)

 

Speedbooster maybe?

[Andrew Garrard]

A speed booster adaptor for FX lenses, maybe - although it reduces the merits of a genuine large sensor. Native full frame lenses wouldn't adapt.

 

Both fast and shift lenses, if they're to take full advantage of the mount width, will need a sensor that can handle highly oblique rays - and that includes the AF system. We'll see about that. I'll make my hopelessly optimistic comment about automated rear movements again though...

[ilkka_nissila]

Is the D500 buffer bigger than the D850 in DX crop? That's news to me.

 

At 9fps the specified maximum burst depth (in practice this is only realized with the lens cap on) in 14-bit lossless compressed NEF in DX crop mode is 45 for the D850 (see the menu guide) whereas the D500 at 10fps can do 200.

 

The D850 is quite snappy for a high resolution camera but it's not primarily designed as a high-speed camera.

Edited August 15, 2018 by ilkka_nissila

[mike_halliwell]

I was thinking Speedbooster for FX lens and image cone down to DX sensor in mirrorless body..

 

Optically could it be made more telecentric?

 

Will the new body have pixel-shift tech? or is that patented to death by 'others'?

[ShunCheung]

At 9fps the specified maximum burst depth (in practice this is only realized with the lens cap on) in 14-bit lossless compressed NEF in DX crop mode is 45 for the D850 (see the menu guide) whereas the D500 at 10fps can do 200.

 

The D850 is quite snappy for a high resolution camera but it's not primarily designed as a high-speed camera.

If you only use a fast XQD card inside the D500 and shoot 14-bit lossless compressed RAW, it can download to the card faster than it can capture. In other words buffer size doesn't matter. The limiting factor is 200 frames artificially set in the D500.

[ShunCheung]

Would Nikon at a later date put an APS-C sensor in a camera with the huge Z mount?

I think Nikon will, probably as soon as next year. APS-C is still a much larger market than FX. Per-unit profit is lower but you make it up with volume. However, there are two other major factors: (1) Nikon is already selling a lot of APS-C (DX) DSLRs and (2) There is a lot more competition in APC-S mirrorless, and Micro 4/3 is not that much smaller. It is not necessarily easy to be profitable in a crowded field.

 

Canon's EOS EF mount has a very large diameter too, 54mm. That doesn't prevent Canon from introducing APS-C bodies and EF-S lenses for them.

[ilkka_nissila]

If you only use a fast XQD card inside the D500 and shoot 14-bit lossless compressed RAW, it can download to the card faster than it can capture. In other words buffer size doesn't matter. The limiting factor is 200 frames artificially set in the D500.

 

Quite possibly, but the D850 can not. There seems to be a bottleneck somewhere. When writing uncompressed FX data the D850 also manages very high write speeds, but with the smaller files there is something that limts the burst depth.

 

Best Memory Cards For The Nikon D850 - Alik Griffin

[rossb]

I think Nikon will, probably as soon as next year. APS-C is still a much larger market than FX. Per-unit profit is lower but you make it up with volume. However, there are two other major factors: (1) Nikon is already selling a lot of APS-C (DX) DSLRs and (2) There is a lot more competition in APC-S mirrorless, and Micro 4/3 is not that much smaller. It is not necessarily easy to be profitable in a crowded field.

 

Canon's EOS EF mount has a very large diameter too, 54mm. That doesn't prevent Canon from introducing APS-C bodies and EF-S lenses for them.

 

I have been looking at Canon camera's for years at my browsing camera store (CostCo) and never noticed that the lens mount was large. But it all seems fine since you brought that up. The small camera field is pretty crowded and popular as you said.

[ilkka_nissila]

At 1/100 second or faster, you can't see nor hear the camera as it is shooting, regardless of the speed.

 

Silent photography is a nice feature but why is the fast electronic shutter restricted to one (very expensive) model (the A9)? If they can do it with a 24MP sensor why not in the A7 III? Since technology for the manufacture the A9 sensor exists, surely making more of them is relatively inexpensive. Few people actually can afford an A9.

 

My guess is that they can't make it for cameras at lower price points, otherwise they'd offer it. I just read that Sony currently have 13% share worldwide of the ILC market and yet they claim to have the goal of being the largest camera maker by 2021, so how is this achieved if they don't sell their best features to the larger public?

 

The D850 silent shutter has a similar read time of 1/15s as the A7R III in full image quality (uncompressed) mode. This is really slow and would lead to significant distortion of features and shapes that are moving in the image. So, how many years do we have to wait to see a silent shutter with 1/250s read time in a 45MP sensor camera so as to avoid the mechanical shutter completely?

 

The viewfinder is like a window - a very clear window.

 

An out-of-tune television set is how I would characterize it. Under camera store fluorescent lighting,I see a band traveling slowly across the image area from top to bottom in the A9 EVF. I often have to photograph indoor in various kinds of flickering lights and how the camera responds to that is important to me, and this includes the viewfinder.

 

Because of the pixelated view, sometimes when objects have straight lines, if they align perfectly with the sensor lines, a prominent horizontal or vertical line pops up in the viewfinder, and then it disappears with a slight movement of the camera relative to the object. Sometimes I see flashing in the XT-2 EVF; don't remember if this was present in the A9. The boundaries between objects are rendered in a distracting way (running jaggies).

 

Of the currently available EVF options I'd be happier to pay for a camera not to include it (if they can't offer a viewfinder I would want to use, I'd rather the manufacturer leave the EVF out and make the camera correspondingly smaller so it fits in a smaller slot in the bag). Fortunately there is plenty of DSLR equipment and even some mirrorless with OVFs that I can use.

 

Regarding the different experiences people have with EVFs - maybe the explanation is that different people see and photograph in very different ways, though we are the same species. I don't doubt the honesty of the differing reports. I think the main difference is that photography is a creative process and different photographers base their photography decisions on seeing different things in the viewfinder, or process the information presented differently.

 

I'm not flogging Sony.

 

No no, of course you aren't.

Edited August 15, 2018 by ilkka_nissila

[Dieter Schaefer]

I think Nikon will, probably as soon as next year. APS-C is still a much larger market than FX.

Timely article: What's Up with DX? | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan

[ilkka_nissila]

Timely article: What's Up with DX? | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan

 

I think it's most likely that they go with the same mount for DX mirrorless as FX mirrorless, and I think for DX lens design the F mount is more limiting than for FX lens design, so if they were to make an F mount mirrorless, it would have been more likely to be FX.

 

If they do a DX mirrorless with F monut, it would benefit from a large selection of lenses but would not be as small as Sony, Fuji or Canon competitors. The absence of the mirror would perhaps permit making short focal length lenses that perturb deep into the former mirror chamber. It's an interesting thought.

Edited August 15, 2018 by ilkka_nissila

[rossb]

Timely article: What's Up with DX? | DSLRBodies | Thom Hogan

 

 

Good article and it sounds like wait and see what Nikon does on the DX mirrorless side of things.

[ShunCheung]

If they do a DX mirrorless with F monut, it would benefit from a large selection of lenses but would not be as small as Sony, Fuji or Canon competitors. The absence of the mirror would perhaps permit making short focal length lenses that perturb deep into the former mirror chamber. It's an interesting thought.

If Nikon made any F-mount lens for mirrorless such that the rear element stick very far out from the mount since there is no mirror any more, (1) the rear end of such lenses will be very vulnerable, prone to scratches and even impact damage. (2) Inevitably someone will (accidentally) mount such lenses onto Nikon DSLRs where the mirror is not absent; they will damage the mirror and most likely also the rear end of the lens.

 

Clearly Nikon will continue to release F mount lenses as well as mirrorless lenses. We know that the 500mm/f5.6 PF is coming soon, but the priority for now will be filling out a set of basic lenses for FX mirrorless, such as 85mm and 105mm portrait lenses, 24mm and 20mm wides, as well as 16-35mm and 70-200mm zooms.

 

I am sure we'll also see more FX and DX DSLRs in the near future. In the longer run, we'll see whether mirrorless can gradually take over as mainstream or DSLRs will still dominate. The overall market is shrinking rather than expanding, such that I don't see Nikon keeping two full, parallel systems.

[BeBu Lamar]

If Nikon made any F-mount lens for mirrorless such that the rear element stick very far out from the mount since there is no mirror any more, (1) the rear end of such lenses will be very vulnerable, prone to scratches and even impact damage. (2) Inevitably someone will (accidentally) mount such lenses onto Nikon DSLRs where the mirror is not absent; they will damage the mirror and most likely also the rear end of the lens.

 

Clearly Nikon will continue to release F mount lenses as well as mirrorless lenses. We know that the 500mm/f5.6 PF is coming soon, but the priority for now will be filling out a set of basic lenses for FX mirrorless, such as 85mm and 105mm portrait lenses, 24mm and 20mm wides, as well as 16-35mm and 70-200mm zooms.

 

I am sure we'll also see more FX and DX DSLRs in the near future. In the longer run, we'll see whether mirrorless can gradually take over as mainstream or DSLRs will still dominate. The overall market is shrinking rather than expanding, such that I don't see Nikon keeping two full, parallel systems.

 

So you think they would make it to the D6? Perhaps no D7 just like the film camera.

[Dieter Schaefer]

Teaser video #4 - hard to believe but it's even more lame than the preceding one: Breaking News

I gather the rumor about a possible Noct 58mm f/0.95 may prove correct.

 

Perhaps Nikon should reconsider the rumored naming of the to be released mirrorless - so far all I am catching are some ZZZZs.

 

All those reminders about Nikon's legacy - maybe they should be a more forward looking?

Edited August 16, 2018 by Dieter Schaefer

[mike_halliwell]

Indeed #4 is pretty pointless as a CAMERA teaser....!

 

There's 33 seconds of life I won't get back....:(

[Dieter Schaefer]

From the folks that lift things out of the shadows it is now revealed that one lens is indeed a Z 24-70mm 1:4 S with a filter diameter of 72mm. Let the speculation about what "S" may stand for begin:D

[mike_halliwell]

You start Dieter.....;)

[ilkka_nissila]

From the folks that lift things out of the shadows it is now revealed that one lens is indeed a Z 24-70mm 1:4 S with a filter diameter of 72mm. Let the speculation about what "S" may stand for begin:D

 

S used to mean Shutter i.e. possibility of shutter priority :-D I assume it means something else now.

 

All those reminders about Nikon's legacy - maybe they should be a more forward looking?

 

In what way?

 

I like fast primes and recognize that there can be focus accuracy issues with them in low light. Maybe Nikon have been able to solve this with their new mirrorless. The launch of an ultra fast aperture normal lens that can autofocus well would be a breakthrough. In my opinion such a lens fits well within the mirrorless system framework because of the silent shutter capability of such cameras, leading to the possibility of silent documentary photography of people in low light indoors without disturbing the subject.

Edited August 16, 2018 by ilkka_nissila

[mike_halliwell]

S in Sigma speak is for SPORT, A is for ART and C is for CONTEMPORARY.

 

A 'slow' 24-70mm f4 isn't usually associated with sport.....?

 

S in AF-S stood for Silent Wave motor. No help there.

 

S in Ai-S meant it could work with Shutter Priority. I'd expect this anyway!!

 

There cannot be a Shutter in the lens can there? Why? It makes everything vastly more complicated.