Nikon New Camera Teaser, FX Mirrorless to be Announced on 23 August, 2018

[ilkka_nissila]

no third party has produced an non-AF adapter for Nikon lenses to Sony cameras that allows control of the aperture from the camera - maybe because demand is too low and or the technical problems too hard to overcome.

 

The demand is certainly not low, but the mechanical aperture readout and control are more complex than it might seem. However, obviously since Nikon designed these systems and they're implemented in millions of their cameras, they will have no trouble implementing them in an adapter that they make in house. Just take the parts from the bin. G lenses are the largest group of Nikkors and their aperture control should be a piece of cake for Nikon.

[ilkka_nissila]

I believe that Sigma did some optimization of the AF system of E mount Art lenses for Sony, to make it work better than it would if just an adapter was used, but I don't know the details.

 

A converted Art lens should behave just the same as a native Art lens made in the factory. But the conversion does cost money.

[mike_halliwell]

I guess Sigma could earn a huge amount of good will by making it a very reasonable cost for a certain few lenses, maybe just the Art and Sport series.

[Andrew Garrard]

Andrew, where's the 3 in 24-70 f/2.8?............;)

 

Next to a 5, and slightly separated from a 5 next to a 0 and a 7 next to another 0. Unless they're going down the Sigma 24-35 f/2.0 route. (There should also probably be a "28" somewhere in the sequence, but without trying to analyse the picture myself, I can't tell.)

Edited July 27, 2018 by Andrew Garrard

[Andrew Garrard]

Given the interesting omission of a Nikon mount version of the latest Sigma 70mm Macro, you gotta wonder what mount issues are brewing for Sigma/Nikon?

 

I assumed that was a flange distance thing. If they were trying to make a small 70mm mirrorless macro (which I believe they were), they may have decided that the F mount was the thing that could be dropped, even if EF was still an option. And they may have had confidence that Nikon's mirrorless mount was coming.

 

I'm not particularly distraught - 70mm is an awkward length for a macro. Short for working distance reasons (even the 90mm budget option is on the short side), a bit long for the 40mm/55mm/60mm copy-stand lenses.

[mike_halliwell]

The other oddity is Sigma's choice of a non IF design. It fits Canon EF, Sigma and Sony E and FE.

 

It's a nice length for A5 or postcards on an FX copystand...:-)

[Andrew Garrard]

Belatedly...

 

Doesn't seem the teaser is getting all that much attention - no wonder giving the lack of real info provided.

 

So, what do people here actually expect the Nikon mirrorless offering to be?

 

I would have expected Nikon to update the D6x0 line with a 24-30MP mirrorless system that was relatively affordable, since the construction cost of the camera should have dropped. But rumours suggest a higher MP, and others have suggested that Nikon tends to roll out new stuff starting at the high end. Plus, they tried to under-cut the dSLRs with the 1 series, and it didn't go well. Clearly Nikon have to compete with the A7RIII (or be seen to - many would argue the D850 already does so very successfully), and that would be an argument for going for a higher pixels count.

 

I expect the camera will weigh 20% less than a D850 and the main distinction will be its better suitability for video.

 

I can't comment on whether it's the main distinction, but I'd be disappointed if a mirrorless system didn't offer phase detect autofocus during video shooting, at least.

 

I would like to see a black-out free high-resolution EVF - though I don't know how this could be done without utilizing a stacked sensor like the one in the A9 (which I doubt we'll see).

 

Well, you need fast read-out somehow. Whether there's a lag (could people live with the D5's 12fps if you had a continuous view of the most recent frame captured?) or updating irrespective of the sensor read is another matter. Having tried to track recalcitrant wildlife recently, getting rid of blackout would certainly help (and putting the grip on my D850 did); whether I could be 100ms behind "live" harmlessly, given the typical camera's shutter lag, I don't know.

 

Frankly, I think it would be better for Nikon to come out with a mirrorless FX offering that is a direct successor of the D750 and a direct competitor of the A7III (matching or exceeding the latter specifications). One big contribution factor to success or failure will be the performance and availability of the F-mount adapter - which frankly I think Nikon should include with the camera for free.

 

Agreed that the D750/D610 is a better target for mirrorless - it'll be down to the price premium Nikon want to ask (if it costs more than a D850 it has to be "better") and how much Nikon feel the need to compete with the A7RIII. Of course, the A7RIII is a much higher target than the A7III, and if Nikon are going to compete with it, they'd better be sure they'll win.

 

I think the adaptor should be available in a bundle, for a very small premium (say $100). I'm not sure I'd force people to pay for it if they're really happy to stick to native mount lenses, although that may be a problem for a later camera release.

[ShunCheung]

It has been four days, and there is no second teaser yet, but Nikon's web site is now showing that the announcement of Nikon's first FX mirrorless camera will be at 1pm JST on August 23, 2018. That is midnight in the US Eastern (EDT).

 

They also have a count-down clock to August 23:

Nikon | Special Event 2018

 

Therefore, this "teaser" period is going to drag on for a month, which is pretty long.

 

BTW, Nikon seems to like August 23. They also announced the D3, their first FX body, on August 23, back in 2007.

Edited July 27, 2018 by ShunCheung

[Dieter Schaefer]

the existence of a "24" and "3" on the lens in the teaser. Given its size, that to me suggests a 24-70 f/2.8

Two things. For one, the size points more to a 24-70/4. And secondly - did Nikon just change the sense of rotation for the zoom? Isn't it that Nikon usually has the longest focal lengths on the left end of the scale and one turns the zoom ring left to get to shorter ones? In other words, the 35 would be to the left (aka front in that image rather than to its right (aka back) as in the image posted? Or differently: with the 24 on top, on any given Nikon lens, the entire scale would be visible in an image taken from the left side.

it really ought to be possible to make a mirrorless 24-120 f/2.8

Given the size of the specifically for mirrorless designed Sony 24-105/4, I doubt a small 24-120/2.8 is doable. Not the least for optical reasons.

but I'd be disappointed if a mirrorless system didn't offer phase detect autofocus during video shooting, at least.

Which is exactly what I said.

 

I guess Sigma could earn a huge amount of good will by making it a very reasonable cost for a certain few lenses, maybe just the Art and Sport series.

The mount conversion prices range from $100 to $380: Mount Conversion Service | Sigma Corporation of America - reasonable cost?

 

Of course, the A7RIII is a much higher target than the A7III

In price but not necessarily in specifications where the A7III has some things the A7RIII does not offer. Cue in the A7RIV to be released any day now;)

Edited July 27, 2018 by Dieter Schaefer

[ilkka_nissila]

I think the A7R II was Sony's turnaround camera and one that became really popular. However, the D850 (which is Nikon's closest functional equivalent to the high res Sony) is also very popular and making a mirrorless equivalent to the D850 might not be exactly the best thing to do (because it would create contusion and potentially not result in a new income increase). If I were Nikon, I would analyze what the expectations of customers are regarding the mirrorless Nikon and design the camera and lenses to answer to those needs, not around parameters used to design specific DSLR products.

 

I do not believe Nikon "has to" out-spec the A7RIII or any particular Sony model. I think it's sufficient that (1) it is quite good and has no major flaws, (2) it is comfortable, fluid and easy to use by photographers used to Nikon cameras. (3) It offers some benefits that allow the new camera to provide a solution to those who prefer a mirrorless solution. That's it. It doesn't need more, to sell quite well. And in the beginning "quite good sales" is the best that they can hope for, before a larger lineup of native mirrorless lenses is available for purchase. After that, the game is on.

 

For (1) it is important that image quality is comparable with D750/D850 level cameras and autofocus is snappy and secure in most practical uses of a camera. No crashing, overheating or oil splatter. (2) For the fluidity and ease of use, I would just copy the majority of the D850 UI and features and build upon those. Do not leave major features that may interest customers out. (3) For special mirrorless features, I would expect near full frame focus point coverage, excellent video AF, good face detection in AF, all the commonly requested focus aids (electronic rangefinder, focus peaking, zoom-in) that can be implemented (but a clean viewfinder display when requested) and some implementation of silent shutter functionality.

 

I genuinely don't think Nikon has to outperform Sony at this point in a technical sense. If they can make a camera that works well and is above all, nice to use, the customers will come.

Edited July 27, 2018 by ilkka_nissila

[Dieter Schaefer]

Therefore, this "teaser" period is going to drag on for a month, which is pretty long.

Already breathless with anticipation I may turn blue before that period is over. Incidentally, Aug 23 is the date I'll be leaving for a vacation, so I'm going to miss all the revelations and jubilation:mad:

 

If I were Nikon, I would analyze what the expectations of customers are regarding the mirrorless Nikon and design the camera and lenses to answer to those needs, not around parameters used to design specific DSLR products.

One would hope that Nikon has done that homework already - might be a tad late to do 1 month before the release announcement. If the rumors indeed prove correct, then at least one of the to be released mirrorless will directly compete with the D850 on specs.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Dieter Schaefer

[Andrew Garrard]

For one, the size points more to a 24-70/4.

 

My bad. I was looking at the image of someone holding it - but then I think of a 24-70 as being the size of the Tamron (117mm long for mine), not the Nikkor (155mm). Looking at the estimates people have been making of the lens size, it does seem a lot closer to the 24-120 f/4. Still, I was kind of hoping the front element would be smaller if the lens could be less retrofocal.

 

And secondly - did Nikon just change the sense of rotation for the zoom? Isn't it that Nikon usually has the longest focal lengths on the left end of the scale and one turns the zoom ring left to get to shorter ones?

 

Ooh - good point. It wouldn't be the first time Nikon changed a direction to match Canon, although the last time it was with the default dial directions and you could override it. Looking at the image It definitely says "24-(can't see)" on the top.

 

Given the size of the specifically for mirrorless designed Sony 24-105/4, I doubt a small 24-120/2.8 is doable. Not the least for optical reasons.

 

It's not been done. That's not quite the same thing. :-) Neither a 24mm f/2.8 nor a 120mm f/2.8 needs to be large, especially without a mirror box in the way. There's obviously an overhead to a zoom, but I was vaguely optimistic that it might be possible. And it would certainly be a differentiator. I maintain that it would be interesting if Nikon made some PF premium travel zooms that folded relatively flat but had reasonable apertures. I'm not volunteering to pay for it, though.

 

Generally I don't mind much - I was carrying around a D850 + grip + 70-200 f/2.8 + SB-600 last night, and while I concede it was getting a bit of a chore after a couple of hours, 100g of lens or prism isn't going to make a vast difference to me. But sometimes it's nice to have something small enough to be with you.

 

Which is exactly what I said.

 

Well, you said it would be clearly better suited to video, and that it would have phase detect on sensor. I was trying to agree while indicating that I'm not sure that Nikon will hugely improve video other than in that respect. But I'll be interested if I'm wrong.

[ShunCheung]

Already breathless with anticipation I may turn blue before that period is over. Incidentally, Aug 23 is the date I'll be leaving for a vacation, so I'm going to miss all the revelations and jubilation:mad:

I am afraid that Nikon has pretty much stolen their own thunder thoroughly over a full month. It will be anticlimactic by the time the actual announcement is made.

 

BTW, it will be August 23 at 1pm in Japan (GMT +9). For those of us on the US West Coast, it will be 9pm in the evening of August 22. Dieter you can stay up all night to celebrate before leaving for vacation. :cool:

[Andrew Garrard]

Incidentally, Aug 23 is the date I'll be leaving for a vacation, so I'm going to miss all the revelations and jubilation:mad:

 

Now you mention it, it's the day I get back from vacation. Which means you can get long rambling posts from me exacerbated by jetlag. Lucky all.

 

One would hope that Nikon has done that homework already - might be a tad late to do 1 month before the release announcement. If the rumors indeed prove correct, then at least one of the to be released mirrorless will directly compete with the D850 on specs.

 

Nikon does their homework, but I'm never sure who does the marking. Not that there's exactly a requirement to do so, but it would be reassuring to the community to be given a justification for a product decision. And preferably a real one, not "people prefer the zoom ring at the front" - because we don't. (With the 70-200 FL last night the focus right was right where I needed to support the camera, and I was perpetually trying not to mess with the AF override; oddly, none of the AF settings is "ignore the ring, just autofocus".)

[Andrew Garrard]

BTW, it will be August 23 at 1pm in Japan (GMT +9). For those of us on the US West Coast, it will be 9pm in the evening of August 22. Dieter you can stay up all night to celebrate before leaving for vacation. :cool:

 

Goshdarn it. My flight leaves Vancouver at 9:05pm on the 22nd. That's a whole flight to stew on. :-)

[BeBu Lamar]

I am afraid that Nikon has pretty much stolen their own thunder thoroughly over a full month. It will be anticlimactic by the time the actual announcement is made.

 

BTW, it will be August 23 at 1pm in Japan (GMT +9). For those of us on the US West Coast, it will be 9pm in the evening of August 22. Dieter you can stay up all night to celebrate before leaving for vacation. :cool:

Be sure to remind me Shun. I will stay up although I have to get up at 4AM the next morning.

[mike_halliwell]

Thanks for the link Dieter,

The Sigma mount conversion price list doesn't list Sigma to Nikon Z mount yet......;)

 

What are they going to call the new mount?, surely that can't be an exciting part of the Big Reveal??

[ShunCheung]

Goshdarn it. My flight leaves Vancouver at 9:05pm on the 22nd. That's a whole flight to stew on. :)

You can catch the first 5 minutes, and as long as you can get wifi on board, you don't need another form of entertainment. You can even follow up to this thread.

[Andrew Garrard]

You can catch the first 5 minutes, and as long as you can get wifi on board, you don't need another form of entertainment. You can even follow up to this thread.

 

It's a slightly pricey privilege, although I'll consider it, just to pester you all. Sadly I think I'm on a Dreamliner, which means that space for opening a laptop in economy is a bit limiting. If only I spent all the money I spend on camera kit upgrading my seats...

[mike_halliwell]

Shun, didn't they introduce the D300 on the same day as the D3?....;)

 

Andrew, have you ever tried trading in a Business class seat for a newer, better one in 3 years?

[BeBu Lamar]

It's a slightly pricey privilege, although I'll consider it, just to pester you all. Sadly I think I'm on a Dreamliner, which means that space for opening a laptop in economy is a bit limiting. If only I spent all the money I spend on camera kit upgrading my seats...

They only let you stream video for 5 minutes? I didn't know that. For most flight it cost me $10 to have wifi. Common Andrew, you must have a large laptop. I have no problem using the laptop on flight and on the dreamliner in coach. But if you do you can do it with your phone.

[Dieter Schaefer]

It's not been done. That's not quite the same thing.

I don't think designing a 24-120/2.8 is an impossible task. The fact that no one has even attempted a 24-85/2.8 speaks to that - even Leica had to make their 24-90 at variable f/2.8-4 - and that lens is already gigantic. A 24-120/4 already entails a lot of optical compromises - increasing the aperture to f/2.8 just isn't feasible - maybe if one goes to a 105mm filter diameter, 2-ft length and 6lbs behemoth :D

I was trying to agree while indicating that I'm not sure that Nikon will hugely improve video other than in that respect.

We're on the same page then;)

My bad. I was looking at the image of someone holding it

I believe that's a different lens - a prime, not a zoom.

It will be anticlimactic by the time the actual announcement is made.

Yep, fairly certain almost everything will be known at that time - and the announcement will merely be the official final confirmation.

The Sigma mount conversion price list doesn't list Sigma to Nikon Z mount yet.

Imagine that! Can't think of a reason why it wouldn't. Or is that would? :(

Shun, didn't they introduce the D300 on the same day as the D3?

Yes. And the D5/D500 on the same day too.

[ShunCheung]

Shun, didn't they introduce the D300 on the same day as the D3?....;)

On August 23, 2007, Nikon gathered a lot of photographers and media folks from around the world in Tokyo to announced the D3. Yes, they also announced the D300 and three AF-S VR super-teles simultaneously: 400mm/f2.8, 500mm/f4, and 600mm/f4, plus the 14-24mm/f2.8 and 24-70mm/f2.8, but Nikon's first full-35mm-frame, FX-format body was the star of that show:

 

Tokyo report: D3 and D300

 

Also on DPReview: August 2007 news and reviews: Digital Photography Review

 

Both Ellis Vener and Bjorn Rorslett were invited to Tokyo (among maybe 100 international participants, plus many more from within Japan). Nikon paid for all travel expenses. They spent a lot of money to promote the D3.

 

That was roughly one year before the 2008 Beijing summer Olympics, and Nikon immediately established the D3 as the pro sports, news camera with three super tele and two f2.8 zooms.

 

Therefore, there is precedent that Nikon could potentially introduce as many as 5 new lenses to accompany a new body that defines a new era. One difference is that the 2020 Tokyo Olympics is still two years away. We probably won't see the successor to the D5, be it a DSLR or mirrorless, for another year to year and half.

[Andrew Garrard]

They only let you stream video for 5 minutes?

 

Crossed wires - I have five minutes on the ground when the announcement starts before scheduled departure. Sadly I don't have free data in Canada, so I may just wait.

 

For most flight it cost me $10 to have wifi.

 

I believe it's usually something like that per hour. I was trying to check; Air Canada currently charge CAD$21 for a whole flight, if I read correctly, but it's not an option on my transatlantic flight anyway. Patience, Andrew.

 

Common Andrew, you must have a large laptop. I have no problem using the laptop on flight and on the dreamliner in coach.

 

My MacBook is 15", but I bought myself a 13" laptop a couple of years back specifically for use on flights. It's narrowly possible for me, until the person in the seat in front leans back. Work insists I use their 17" monstrosity with a third of the battery life, which is completely unusable on a plane. Other than passengers leaning back, the limiting factor is my belly size - waist plus keyboard plus space to lean the screen back is less than a seat gap, especially the way the last 787 I used was configured. Yes, I could lose weight, but then how would I eventually be able to steady my elbow to support the 400 f/2.8 I've been lusting after?

 

Yet another problem that can be solved by a mirrorless offering, if Sony's smaller 400mm is indicative.

 

(This has become spectacularly first world problems, other than that I fly coach. I have a track record of it with flying. A friend flew first class to my wedding and reported that the turbulence was so bad his caviar fell off his blini.)

 

But if you do you can do it with your phone.

 

True, if there were Wi-Fi. But then you get posts with even more typos!

[ShunCheung]

Ok, I can see Andrew create a scene at the Vancouver Airport to delay the flight by 30 minutes or so. Just don't go too far to get yourself arrested. :rolleyes: