Equipment recommendation to process at home

[horace_lai]

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I will be moving to a new apartment in 2 months where I will get a storage room. I had an idea to make that room light sealed, put a red light somewhere, and use those plastic cans to develop film. I was wondering what would be some good low budget equipment recommendations for me to get started?</p>

<p>I have just started shooting 120 and am planning to have a kit that works for 35mm as well.</p>

<p>Thanks,<br>

Horace</p>

[mendel_leisk]

<p>Are you thinking to do old-school enlarging as well, or just film developing, and then scan? If it's just developing film you're going to undertake, a small bathroom is good, preferably windowless. Safelights are not a factor, you need total darkness, and just until the film is loading into the canister.</p>

<p>When light sealing the room I would suggest to check by just sitting in there for a few minutes, then looking for light leaks, as your eyes get more sensitive. You really don't want to see any. Everything helps. For example, with my setup (which I use very infrequently, lol) I would only develop film at night: bright daylight outside might overpower my efforts. :)</p>

[horace_lai]

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>Only film developing for now, no enlarging. And then I will probably buy a cheap scanner that can scan negs. If the scans look good I can take it to the local shop for a professional scan.</p>

<p>I thought about the bathroom but I don't think it will be a good idea since the wife might need to use it when I'm in the middle of film developing. Also my storage room is outside my apartment (on the same floor, in the same shared hallway) so it kinda gives me some room to make a mess if I make a mess.</p>

<p>I would prefer having a safelight so I can see myself loading the film into the canister, assuming they are not too expensive.</p>

<p>I think it is a viable idea. Or maybe not? :)</p>

<p>Horace</p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>"I would prefer having a safelight so I can see myself loading the film into the canister, assuming they are not too expensive"<br /><br />No, you cannot use a safelight when loading film. Film has to be loaded in asbolute total darkness, or inside a changing back (the inside of which is totally dark). Practice in the light til you get it down, but actual rolls you develop have to be loaded in the dark (or inside the bag). (Somebody is going to post that you can use a green safelight for a few seconds. yes, technically, but only if you know what you're doing. And nobody actually does that that I've ever seen.)<br /><br />If all you're going to do is develop negatives, not make prints, I recommend using the bathroom and not the storage room. Very inconvenient to develop film someplace that doesn't have running water. Simplest thing is to load the film in a changing bag, then develop at the bathroom sink. Total time in the chemicals from start to finish is about 10 minutes. Washington is another 5-20 minutes but OK to have someone come in by that point.</p>

[Jochen_S]

<p>Horace, you came a tad late. - I was born just recently in 1970, so I am not entirely sure when exactly the kind of film you are dreaming of went out of fashion. - Only UV to blue sensitive seemed popular until the 1920s. - Around there they switched to orthochromatic film that saw green too and a bit later we got blessed with <strong>panchromatic</strong> emulsions that see all the light we are seeing too. If you look at names like "PanF" or "Agfapan" you get an idea of the current market. The remaining ortho emulsions are rare. - they might get used in conventional X-raying and there used to be a an Agfa ortho which produced ultra high contrast for line drawing reproductions.<br>

Whatever you are shooting these days in MF or 35mm for ordinary halftone pictures is at least as light sensitive as your eyes and conventional safe lights won't work.<br>

You have a faint chance to use invisible light like IR and record it with a night vision video system, but practically the risk of a light leak between that device and your eye is considerable...<br>

So what are your options?</p>

<ul>

<li>Get hold of the least expensive and most expired roll of 120 you can imagine and practise until you are confident to load it in the entirely dark.</li>

<li>Maybe forget about the entire(ly) dark room thing and buy a film changing bag tent or the like instead. <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/172903-REG/Harrison_1000_Pup_Film_Changing_Tent.html">this </a>herewould be the overkill solution of my wildest dreams (I have some 13x18cm holders to load!) <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/253370-REG/Paterson_PTP125.html">that</a> should cut your cake too (been ages since I used mine and I am metric...) Sanity might be between those two.</li>

</ul>

<p>I really had no issues preparing all my 35mm and 120 processing even with a Jobo tank that held 5 35mm reels or 3 for 2 120 rolls each in my bag. My condo has a windowless bathroom but I am not very confident about getting it's door 125% light tight as needed for dealing with film out in the open. <br>

IDK if Jobo are still in business. - I know a bunch of other photographers love stainless steel reels (Patterson?) with which I didn't warm up. get any used tank that holds a single roll of whatever ina reel and is meant to be agitated by turning it upside down and get started. <br>

I loved the Jobo rotating processors for convenience. - My developing times went up to 45min (HP5 push 2 in Microphen 1+3) but I also read that rotation isn't the perfect way to agitate chemicals.... <br>

All you really need is a changing bag (can be used on your bed or kitchen table) and a surface to mess up. - Gran had washable plastic table cloths... <- good idea. Spilling drops of chemicals isn't unusual...</p>

[James G. Dainis]

Horace,

 

Are you planning to do black and white or color film?

[Dustin McAmera]

<p>As they said above, you don't need a darkroom unless you mean to print.<br>

The kitchen beats the bathroom for developing film, every time:</p>

<ul>

<li>The kitchen sink has a large drainer.</li>

<li>There's ample surface space.</li>

<li>I keep most of my chemicals in the fridge anyway.</li>

<li>Conveniently, there's beer in there too.</li>

</ul>

<p>You need:</p>

<ul>

<li> A developing tank. The Paterson tanks are good. I prefer stainless steel tanks (for the reels; I find steel reels easier to load), but I used Paterson tanks happily for ages. In particular, the solutions pour in and out very quickly.</li>

<li>A couple of reels. The Paterson reels adjust for 35mm or 120 film.</li>

<li>A 'changing bag': a double-skinned black bag with elasticated sleeves. You put the tank and reel, and your film in there, zip it up, and put your hands in through the sleeves. You open your film cassettes, and load the film into your reel. Slip the reel onto the centre column of your tank (not all tanks have a centre column), and close up the tank. Then you can unzip the bag, and handle the tank safely in daylight.</li>

<li>Scissors for cutting the leader off 35mm film, and detaching it from the spool. Also for cutting the tape on MF film.</li>

<li>For 35mm film, whatever tool works for you to open the cassettes. I use a bottle opener.</li>

<li>A few plastic water jugs or measuring cylinders for mixing your solutions in. I use really cheap jugs bought at the supermarket, which are marked fairly accurately with volumes.</li>

<li>If you're going to use a liquid concentrate developer (maybe Rodinal or HC110) you need something like a syringe or pipette to measure small volumes (say 5 or 10 ml).</li>

<li>At least one thermometer covering about 10 - 25 degrees C. For black-and-white you mostly work at 20 C.</li>

<li>A timer. Something that beeps once a minute is good, but a kitchen clock will do, if it has a second hand.</li>

<li>Somewhere to hang your film after washing; as dust-free as possible. I hang mine from an overhead laundry hanger. I hang Bulldog clips on the bottom of the film to hold it straight.</li>

<li>Bottles to store any of the chemicals you will re-use. For me, that's mostly just the fix.</li>

<li>A funnel to let you pour into a bottle quickly.</li>

</ul>

<p>Some people use a squeegee (like two windscreen wiper blades hinged together) to wipe most of the water off the film before hanging it up to dry. I don't use one any more; it's too easy to scratch the film.<br>

Ilford have some 'getting started' documents:<br>

<a href="http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=16">http://www.ilfordphoto.com/applications/page.asp?n=16</a></p>

 

[Dustin McAmera]

<p>Oh, and a notebook. Keep notes of each film you develop: what kind of film it is, what speed you shot it at, what developer you used, at what concentration, what time you gave the developer and the fix, what agitation you used in the tank, and how the film looked when it was done. If anything goes wrong, your notes may help you work out why.</p>

[hjoseph7]

<p>They sell entire used film developing kits on eBay, if you are interested. Of course you got to have a pretty good idea of what you are going to need before you buy.</p>

[glen_h]

<p>I also recommend a changing bag for film. No need for a darkroom that is actually dark.</p>

<p>I suspect that orthochromatic film stayed around longer than it should, so that home darkroom users could develop it. It seems that Panatomic X is older than Verichrome Pan (about 1956). <br>

No safelights for loading film tanks with panchromatic or color film.</p>

<p>As noted above, there is a #3 safelight that can be used, for a few seconds, after some film is halfway through the developer. That doesn't help tank loading. It is supposed to be possible to judge the exposure, and increase or decrease development time based on what you see. But the undeveloped silver halide is still there, so you can't see through the film. I have never tried this, and never known anyone to do it. My darkroom has a #3, though, installed by the previous owner of the house. </p>

<p>Well I usually use Diafine, where that wouldn't help anyway. </p>

<p>Wet printing isn't all that hard to do, and you do want a safelight for that. It also needs more counter space. A sink is nice in both cases, though my darkroom now doesn't have one. There is one not far away, though, where I take the film after fixing. </p>

<p>I like putting the developing tank in a print tray, so that any leaks are contained. </p>

<p>The list above is pretty close. Tank, thermometer, chemicals, bottles, measuring cups, bottle opener (for 35mm crimped cartridges), and, as above changing bag.</p>

<p>You might find someone nearby giving away all their darkroom stuff. Try freecycle or craigslist.</p>

[horace_lai]

<p>Thanks everyone. I have learned a lot. I always had the idea that a darkroom had one of those safelights and the film would not expose to that.</p>

<p>I guess the best alternative is the kitchen station with the dark bag, since there is no way to do this without being blind basically.</p>

[James G. Dainis]

Horace,

 

You haven't answered my question - are you planning to do black and white film or are you thinking of doing color film? The responses you have received so far all appear to assume that you are going to use black and white film. Your mention of a safelight may have led everyone down that trail. No safelight can be used with color film. Color film is more complicated involving tighter temperature control and water tempering baths, etc. Not something you could do in a waterless store room.

 

Are you planning to do black and white film or are you thinking of doing color film?

[rob_calhoun]

<p>Horace, in case you are wondering about the red safelight, it is commonly used when handling or printing on black and white paper, which is not sensitive to it. But it is not used for any film or color paper, which is usually sensitive to all colors of light.</p>

[horace_lai]

<p>Hi James,</p>

<p>Sorry. I meant to answer you but I forgot to type it in :)</p>

<p>Yes I plan to do color but if b&w is easier then I may reconsider. So basically for b&w I can use a safe light? I did not know that the processes are different.</p>

<p>Thanks again,<br>

Horace</p>

[James G. Dainis]

The answers you got above were primarily for black and white film. But, you can't use a safe light for either type of film. A safelight is just used when dealing with black and white paper, enlarging etc. Black and white film is put into a light tight developing tank in complete darkness and then the rest (adding developer, stop bath, fixer) is done with the lights on. Developer temperature is not critical but is usually 68 deg. F. so that can be done at room temperature. With color film the developer must be maintained at 100 deg F so that usually means keeping the developer tank in a 100 deg F water bath. Color chemicals also go bad rather quickly. Once mixed, black and white developer will last for months but color developer will only last for a week or two before going bad.

 

I used to have my own darkroom but I would only use it to put the black and white film in the developing tank. (I could have used a changing bag or dark closet). Then I would take the tank upstairs and sit in my easy chair watching TV as I added the developer and stirred that every 30 seconds for 7 minutes. Then dump that out and add the stop bath for 30 seconds, then dump that out and add the fixer and watch some more TV as I stirred that for 5 minutes. Then I would open the light tight tank and admire the perfectly developed frames on the developing reel and then rinse for 5 minutes and then hang to dry. Color film was a different story,much more critical.

[craig_shearman1]

<p>"I keep most of my chemicals in the fridge anyway"<br /><br />Do not keep your photo chemicals in the fridge. The cold temperature will cause the dissolved particles to precipitate out of the liquid. If this works for Pete fine, but with all due respect that's not a good idea to put in the head of a beginner.<br /><br />If you load your film in a changing bag, yes you could develop in the kitchen rather than the bathroom. But I have always avoided doing this just because the kitchen is where I cook and eat. B&W photo chemicals are not particularly toxic but I still don't want them near by food.</p>

[Ed_Ingold]

<p>Rather than the expense and difficulty light-sealing a room, get a changing bag. Once film is in the tank, and the cover is on, you can process the film in daylight.</p>

<p>In fact, I suggest you get what is called a "changing tent," which has a framework to support the bag and a LOT more room in which to work. Your hands tend to sweat inside a closed bag or tent, so I suggest you use gloves to keep from damaging unprocessed film. Vinyl "painting" gloves are readily available and work well, but your hands sweat inside. I prefer thin cotton gloves.</p>

<p>Practice loading a scrap roll of film onto the reel in daylight, wearing gloves if that's what you'll be using in the dark. Practice until you can do it blindfolded, then practice in the dark. For most people, this is the hardest part of home processing.</p>

<p>Don't try to run a faucet to get water at the right temperature. It won't work unless you have a thermostatic control. Instead get a plastic tray, put your chemicals in it and fill it with water adjusted to the right temperature. Stir it often and adjust the temperature as needed with hot or cold water. Once settled, it will hold the temperature long enough and accurately enough even for color work (+/- 0.5 deg C). Put your processing tank in there too (but don't submerge it completely. In addition to temperature control, the water will collect the inevitable spills and keep them from contaminating the space.</p>

<p>The film must be rinsed thoroughly with running water. I like to use a plastic tube washer which fills from the bottom and flows out the top. You need a bottom to top exchange, otherwise the chemicals will settle on the bottom. If you don't have temperature controlled water, just use cold. NEVER USE WARM OR HOT WATER TO RINSE FILM. It will ruin the emulsion. </p>

<p>Clean up all spills! If the chemicals dry, they will form dust which will contaminate film. At very least, they will stain your work place and are very difficult to remove when dry.</p>

<p>FORGET everything you have seen in movies or on TV about developing film. If they were doing it right, there would be nothing to see (dark room, get it). Get and use an accurate thermometer (+/- 0.25 deg C), and always use a clock or timer. Hint: prints take 1-1/2 to 3 minutes to develop, not just when the image appears in 10 seconds or so, like on TV.</p>

<p>Wear gloves around chemicals. If you get dermatitis (and you WILL get dermatitis), it's too late.</p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>"Don't try to run a faucet to get water at the right temperature. It won't work unless you have a thermostatic control."<br /><br />That can be true for color, which requires higher and more precise temperatures, but not B&W. I develop B&W at anywhere from 70-75F, which is room temperature in my darkroom. The chemicals are already setting their mixed. If I'm going to dilute anything, it's easy to get the water adjusted to the right temperature and, at least in my house with my plumbing, it stays where I set it. Same for water for rinsing and washing.<br /><br />Your wash water temperature isn't critical but should be about the same temperature as your chemicals. You don't want to use hot water because it can soften the emulsion but you don't want really cold water either because it can cause reticulation.</p>

[mendel_leisk]

<p>I'd strongly recommend to start with black and white film. Also, liquid concentrate chemicals are much easier to mix, especially in small quantities, compared to powders.</p>

<p> </p>

[rob_calhoun]

<p>"Color chemicals also go bad rather quickly. Once mixed, black and white developer will last for months but color developer will only last for a week or two before going bad."<br>

<br /> This is one of the myths in photography that just won't die. If stored properly, color chemistry can have a very long life. I store both C-41 developer and RA-4 developer in glass jars filled to the top and tightly sealed and have had them last years. Right now I have many bottles of C-41 developer that are stored this way that were mixed in December 2011 and have hardly changed color. I used some recently and it showed no signs of deterioration. The key is to prevent the developer from oxidizing. If you store it in partly full plastic bottles, it is likely to go bad very quickly.<br>

<br /> I believe it is false beliefs such as this that has kept many from trying color that otherwise would do it.</p>

[James G. Dainis]

Rob, when you open one of those many bottles of C-41 developer and only use part of it then what do you do? I used to have those accordion bottle to collapse but they would only go so far down and I would still have a large air space. Then I would try using smaller bottles But would still have some left over. I never tried the filling the bottles with marbles routine. I would usually buy a kit to develop color film when I had enough rolls to use the entire kit or would shoot some more to use up the chemistry. If I didn't it would go bad from my failure to put any remainder in various sized small bottles. My partially filled gallon jug of D-76 would just sit there for months on end waiting for my beck and call.

 

"If you get dermatitis (and you WILL get dermatitis), it's too late."

 

I never used gloves and neither did Ansel Adams. One's hands do not come in contact with chemicals when using a developing tank. Still I suppose that better safe than sorry is well advised although stating as a fact then anyone who does not use gloves will get dermatitis seems a bit much.

[rob_calhoun]

<p>I store chemistry in glass canning jars which come in sizes of half-pint, pint, quart and half-gallon. When I develop a roll of film I use about a pint of solution, so if it is used from a larger size, I dump what is left into sizes appropriate for the remaining solution so that it will fill up the jar(s). For example, if I took it from a half-gallon jar, the remainder would fill up a quart and pint jar, or three pint jars. I use developer one-shot but bleach and fix I re-use once, so return them into separate jars for re-use. I don't worry too much about filling bleach jars since oxygen does not harm bleach.</p>

[Dustin McAmera]

<p>I develop C41 (colour negative) as well as black and white. One you're confident with B&W, colour isn't very hard; but you need to be more precise with temperature during the developing step. You will need an extra thermometer, and you'll need to adjust the temperature of every solution, and of your rinsing water. I recommend you do quite a few sessions of B&W first.<br>

I don't bother with gloves for C41, but I always get a little of the bleach/fix on my hands, so I wash them frequently. Colour *slide* film (E6) is a different matter; I only ever bought one kit of chemicals. I wore gloves, and got rashes anyway, so I finished up the kit and haven't done it again.</p>

[Bill Bowes]

<p>Hello everyone. Here is my "take" on the minimalist b/w developing set up. Stainless steel tanks and reels. Forget using the small 250 ml for 35mm...get a 450 ml tank, works for 35 & 120 formats. Use one shot chemistry for the developer (Rodinal , d-76, whatever). Changing bag. See if my Igloo set-up meets your needs. All chems & water for washing for (1) 120 or (2) 35mm. Temperature control is achieved by adding hot/cold water and waiting 30 mins for stabilization of ALL liquids. Accurate thermometer.. this can be a cooking thermo if it goes into the 40-50f range.... cheap kitchen digital timer.<br>

The Iglooo can be used at the kitchen sink, close to the frig where your favorite beverage might be stocked. Bill</p><div></div>

[andrew_brown7]

<p>Everything to develop B and W film can be done in daylight, apart from loading the film into the drum.<br>

The first thing to buy therefore is a large dark bag, the larger the better to allow for scissors to get lost and the pesky top of the drum to hide itself in the corner. In fact my reason for a large bag is to not generate too much heat and stickiness as the film is loaded. <br>

Once the film is safely in the container you can do everything else in the kitchen. I now Stand Develop and that is such a strain free way of working I wish I'd started using it years ago...just let it sit there for an hour or so...very simple!</p>