Less contrast after film dried

[lubos_soltes]

<p>Hello all</p>

<p>I think somebody already asked this question, but I could not google an answer:</p>

<p>My developed film loses contrast when drying. Basically out of the tank, the film is gorgeous. Great contrast and all. However after it dries, I find a less contrasty negative (seems like it fogged or similar).<br>

It's my 2nd filme developed myself, so I am completely new to this. Kodak TMX 100, Rodinal 1+50 (13 minutes @ 20C), 1.5 minute stop bath, 5 minutes fix.</p>

<p>Both films exhibited this and I am quite upset about the result (I feel like I am damaging my own work).</p>

[jean_yves_mead]

Perhaps it is fogged. Have you tested your fixer?

[lubos_soltes]

<p>Hmm .... the fixer is new (bought a month ago). I hope I did not throw out the last film that unwound on me ...</p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<p>What type of fixer?<br>

Sodium thiosulfate also called Hypo or ammonium thiosulfate commonly called rapid fixer.<br>

If you are using rapid fixer did you use the correct dilution of 1:3 or 1:4, depending on manufacturer, for film?<br>

You can refix the films for additional time up to 30 minutes without any ill effects on the images. Fix times in excess of 30 minutes at 68°F may bleach the film.</p>

<p>The standard test for fixing is to submerge a strip of the same type film as the one to be processed in a container of the fixer starting a timer as the film is put into the fixer and timing until the film becomes clear. Correct fix time is double this time.</p>

<p> </p>

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p>For Tgrain type films (Tmax, Delta Acros) <em>TRIPLE</em> the <em>Clear</em> time.</p>

[lubos_soltes]

<p>@Charles: Ilfor rapid fixer, 1+4 dilution</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Wet negatives may give the illusion of appearing more contrasty, but that's because of the optical effect of water. The dry down effect is common in prints, particularly fiber prints. Your negatives may be perfectly normal. But it wouldn't hurt to extend the fixing time - with agitation - and to double check your entire process to be sure the film isn't fogged, etc.</p>

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p>Indeed for Fiber/Baryta prints the dry down effect is known but for a regular film development, it is how it is. If you have any fog or less good fixed film however you could have above mentioned problems.<br>

The fixer capacity is also less for Tgrain type films compared to any regular cubical type B&W film: About 60%.<br>

Not efficient fixed negatives are looking a bit milkey. You have to re-fix immediately with new fresh fixer again and complete the regular film wash and wetting agent step afterwards.</p>

[lubos_soltes]

<p>thanks everybody. I'll extend the fixing time today and see how it works out.</p>

[stephen t]

<p>Question for all:</p>

<p>I have been using Ilford Rapid Fixer at 1:4 (one-shot use) for 5 minutes following a 10 sec. stop. The developer is Ilfosol 3. I use both TMax and Ilford films. Small tank development.</p>

<p>I haven't noticed any problems, but should I increase my fix time as a preventative measure?</p>

<p>Is Lubos' stop time excessive at a minute and a half? I can't see how it could hurt??</p>

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p><em>30S Stop</em> is a regular minimum time. You can check your <em>Fixer</em> time by testing the <em>Clear</em> time of the films, mentioned above.</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Stop bath serves two purposes:</p>

<ol>

<li>Accurate development, to prevent overdevelopment and consequent excessive contrast and grain. Critical with short developing times, since an extra 30 seconds is significant with a 5 minute developing time, less so with 10 minute times.</li>

<li>To prevent contaminating fixer and premature failure of fixer.</li>

</ol>

<p>T-Max films exhaust rapid fixer more quickly than other films, reportedly due to the higher iodide content. Several years ago I ran some tests, reusing 1-liter batches of Ilford rapid fixer to exhaustion. I'd get 20-24 reuses from films like Tri-X, HP5+ and FP4+.</p>

<p>But a separate 1-liter batch of rapid fixer was exhausted after 10 rolls of T-Max 100 and 400. The 11th roll of T-Max required extended fixing and never cleared completely. The fixer failed completely by the 12th roll and a new batch was needed.</p>

<p>Some folks will use rapid fixer as one-shot, but this seems unnecessarily cautious and expensive. Rapid fixer can be reused, following manufacturers' recommendations, but don't push it too far. Also, watch for sediment. With reuse silver sludge accumulates at the bottom of the jug. Some folks will filter the fixer. I didn't bother, but was careful to pour the fixer without disturbing the sediment. For larger 1-gallon batches I'd occasionally decant the fixer to a clean container and discard the sludge.</p>

[bgelfand]

<p>Hi Stephen,</p>

<p>I, too, fix for 5-minutes in Ilford Rapid Fix 1 + 4 agitating every 30-seconds. I works just fine for me.</p>

<p>You are wasting fixer by using it only once. Testing fix is easy. After loading the tank, but before developing, take the leader, and immerse it in some of your fixer; I usually use a small drinking glass to hold the test. Note the time it takes the film to clear; mine usually takes about 30 to 45 seconds. If it takes much more than minute and a half, mix new fixer before developing. The only time testing costs you is about two minutes to run the test. Since Ilford Rapid Fix is liquid, mixing new fixer is a quick process and does not require heating the water and cooling the stock solution. It takes about two minutes.</p>

[chris_waller]

<p>I find this very same thing. and as Lex has said it is an optical effect due to the changes in densities as the negs dry. As long as the negs print OK then there is nothing to worry about.</p>

[lubos_soltes]

<p>So I finaly had the time to do another film, this time with a 10 minute fix and you were all correct:</p>

<p>1. The original fix time was not long enough<br>

2. However the drying effect is still there</p>

<p>Now I am at 10 minutes fix an the negs look great after drying while they still look a bit better directly out of the tank. The difference between dry and wet is not that noticable now.</p>

[scott_murphy5]

<p>It might be the difference between real and <em>apparent</em> contrast. When the film is wet, the emulsion side is very shiny so the film may appear more contrasty. As the film "dries down" the emulsion side gets fairly matte in texture so the contrast will appear to be lower.</p>

<p>If that is not the case, then you may have not left in the fixer long enough and it may have fogged a little</p>