If I treat a color film negative as B&W

[doga_d]

<p>I got my color films developed. What happens if I try to print them on those light sensitive plastic based papers through using overhead projector like device (Sorry, I forgot the name of it, but you got it, right?)<br>

Would it be B&W without any loss, or since there are colorful parts on the film, it wouldn't work that way ?</p>

<p> </p>

[larrydressler]

<p>??????</p>

[doga_d]

<p>Ain't it clear ? What happens if I treat the colored film as if it's a B&W film, but not the developing part with chemicals, only the printing part onto paper using the projector like machine. Plain to see I think.</p>

[christopher_ward2]

<p>If you use an enlarger to print C-41 color negatives on B&W RC variable contrast paper ,the orange film mask will lower contrast and enhance the grain in the print. Some graded papers work better.<br>

chris</p>

[martin_dake]

<p>You will get a projector like image that will disappear when you turn the project like machine off.<br>

You will have to develop and fix the paper to keep the image but modern black and white papers do not make good images from color negatives.</p>

 

[doga_d]

<p>For sure I know that I have to develop and fix the paper after projection :)<br>

By saying "not using the chemicals" in the previous post I was referring to the very early stage of developing the film, since the first answer to my question was full of question mark :)<br>

So, does it worth trying ?</p>

[walter_degroot]

<p>omce upon a time Kodak and possibly others made PANALURE<br>

B&W paper that was sensitive to all colors.<br>

all the current Enlarging papers are not sensitive to all colors.<br>

the orage mask present in almost all color negative films is similar to the safelights used when working in a darkrrom printing and developing B+&W negatives with conventional B&W Paper. it is not QUITE the same color..<br>

so starting out you have a problem.. A developing drum and color paper would not be that hard.<br>

I made 8 x 10 prints with two chemical;s. I had to fool around with the filters.<br>

You will need a set of filters.<br>

One drawback or a overhead projesctor it that likht spills all ober the room and it will degrade your results.</p>

<p>a MUCH easier way it to scan or have the negatines scanned., put the files on a cd<br>

and take it to a big box store and make prints.</p>

<p>it is the least streesful way.</p>

[dave_redmann]

<p>Today most black and white paper--both resin-coated (is that what you mean by "plastic based"?) and fiber-based--is variable contrast. Variable-contrast paper gives more or less contrast, depending on the color of the light that exposes it. With black and white film, the film itself produces no color to be projected onto the paper; the person printing uses colored filters to apply, evenly across the entire image, exactly the required color of light hitting the paper to produce the level of contrast desired.</p>

<p>If you use color negative film, there are two additional sources of coloration added to the light hitting the paper: (1) the orange mask in the film base and (2) the coloration in the image itself (e.g., cyan coloration as the negative of red in the image, magenta coloration as the negative of green in the image, etc.). These colorations greatly complicate printing.</p>

<p>Using graded paper may help. Years ago, as Walter said, Kodak Panalure was specifically designed to do what you want. Today there <em>may</em> be some 'real' black and white papers (i.e., forming the final image with silver halide instead of dye clouds) that are designed to work with digital minilab printers, and that function like Panalure in terms of light sensitivity.</p>

<p>Also: resin-coated paper is <em>not</em> plastic-based. There are printing materials that might be called plastic-based, like Fuji Supergloss, but that's a completely different material.</p>

 

[bruce_watson1]

<p>You're talking about enlarging a color negative in a B&W darkroom, yes? This won't work well. There are several reasons. First, modern B&W photo papers don't expect the orange color correction mask used in modern C-41 color negatives, and won't "subtract" that mask.</p>

<p>Second, modern B&W photo papers are not sensitive to the full range of colors -- they are expressly designed to have "holes" in their responses. This is done to allow the use of safelights in the darkroom. If they had a full response to visible light, all work in the darkroom would have to be done in complete darkness, which is a PITA.</p>

<p>Third, modern multi-graded B&W photo papers use the color of light from the enlarger to control their contrast ranges. Using a color negative in the enlarger will interfere with this mechanism and make the resulting print's contrast unpredictable -- it will likely vary on the print as the color of the negative varies. This will likely be unmanageable.</p>

<p>What you want is an old Kodak paper called Panalure. Hasn't been made in many years, but it was designed for just this purpose -- making B&W prints from color negatives. And it did require working in total darkness (no safelights).</p>

<p>Your best bet at this time is to scan the negative and convert it to grayscale in an image editor like Photoshop. Print it either with an inkjet printer, or send the image file to a prolab to print using a Lightjet, Lambda or similar printer to B&W photo paper. Ilford (Harmon?) makes silver gelatin B&W photo papers (including a traditional fiber paper -- not plastic, but it's quite expensive) specifically designed for this purpose, and there are a handful of pro labs around the world using it. One such lab in NA is <a href="http://www.elevatordigital.ca/printing.html">Elevator Digital</a>. </p>

[walter_degroot]

<p>all good responses.<br>

the EASY way may not exist.<br>

when digital overtook film<br>

the scanners were discontinued as sales dropped.<br>

Scanning and photoshop or other image manipulation software could help.<br>

A a " way out" method would to copy as in slide duplication on reversal panchromatic material.<br>

but exposure with reversal materials is croitical/<br>

so it is not a practical solution.<br>

the easy way without scanning ti to use color filters and color paper.<br>

even with an elderly enlarger ( with a filter drawer)<br>

and making adjustments in adding and subtracting filters is still simpler.<br>

and the result will be a color print.<br>

Considering the resolution of a overhead projector. a flatbed scanner with 35mm film capability would work better.</p>

 

[dave_wilson1]

Like already said, scanning and converting is a good option. An old trick that works decent is to print the negative through

a med to strong magenta contrast control filter. anywhere froma 2-1/2 to 4 might do the trick and get you a pretty good

print.

[Mike Gammill]

<p>I've gotten acceptable results by combining a blue (80A, I think) filter with a 3.5 grade Polycontrast filter. Ilford Multigrade IV souped in Dektol diluted 1:2. The blue mostly counters the orange mask. If you have a dichroic color head enlarger you can be more precise. Exposure times will be very long.</p>

[glen_h]

<p>Panalure, along with the usual RA-4 paper, can use the number 13 safelight.</p>

<p>Though I do wonder why the name has light in it, as it is pretty dark. (I once dropped some paper on the floor and couldn't find it.) It is good enough to find the tray, though.</p>

<p>It seems that there is a narrow wavelength range between red sensitive and green sensitive where the paper isn't so sensitive. Unlike film, there is no requirement that the sensitivity curve be reasonably uniform. </p>