Rocky Mountain Film Lab - WARNING

[pattie_dravis]

<p>Diane, did they say anything about giving your money back, or did that not come up? I am thinking that doesnt matter as much to most people, just wondering. I haven't gotten a call yet, did they mention what they were going to do with everyone else? How long had you had your film there?<br>

Thanks, Pattie</p>

[diane_lewis1]

<p> My husband asked the same thing about a refund. When I picked up the phone and saw "Rocky Mountain", I took a deep breath and answered calmly. Then I just listened to what Jill Brennan had to say. Of course, all I wanted to hear was that I was getting my film back.<br>

I was equally surprised when she picked up the phone when I called back to double check my order number and to ask her a 2nd question: whether the film had been done...processed. She answered that it was NOT processed!<br>

She said they were "reorganizing" and OFFERED to KEEP the film LONGER until they clear up their business. I had to assume she thinks I don't know about the bankruptcy. I declined saying I had friends in the film industry that may be able to help me. Nope cannot let them have my property any longer.<br>

About the refund...I should have addressed that BUT...I'll WAIT and SEE if I get my film back..and then I'll check in with you later</p>

[joseph_a_kidd1]

<p>Please understand this: <strong>NO ONE WILL GET A REFUND</strong>. Dock filed for <strong>Bankruptcy</strong>. His reorganization plan calls for NO ONE other than tax authorities (IRS, State of Colorado, City of Aurora) and his mortgage company to be paid. </p>

[s_mark]

<p>Is there any reason to file the Proof Of Claim Form if no refunds will be issued?</p>

[kayleen_edwards]

<p>Nobody has called me yet and ALL I want is my film back! I don't even care about the refund because I wrote that off literally and in my head well over a year ago. I left a message for the attorney stating that I just want my film back. I am somewhat relieved that they are sending back film. I am a bit concerned however, that I did not get that phone call.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Joseph;<br>

Letters like that from places in Bankruptcy are extremely common; ie the norm with the outfits in bankruptcy.</p>

<p>In running an actual business; they are common as junk mail and spam and folks asking for 1099's.</p>

<p>You should feel insulted not with me; but with your degree. These letters from the Bankrupt outfit are not anything new; mostly the norm. They show up in running a business just like bills; taxes or other stuff.</p>

<p>"Stuff like this" is common with responses from businesses in Bankruptcy; we have file drawers here going back 50+ years full of worded letters that are just like RMFL's. The lawyer types send out wads of boilplate too; one can have a 6 inch stack of BS if one is owned 260 bucks back in 1997. We got a final settlement of 4.77 bucks; the rest went to taxes; a lawyers; and sending out all that paper.</p>

<p>It is a bit shocking that you are surprised; but maybe you never deal with folks and companies that have fallen into Bankruptcy.</p>

<p>What is common and obvious to one; may not be to another. RMFL's letter response is standard boilplate with these type letters.</p>

<p>Here I have all sorts of "stuff" from auctions of dead print shops; old vellums; old blueprints from 1927; old glass plates; old negatives. One wad is just marked "unknown/unpicked/left on counter stuff". It is from *another dead bankrupt shop* ; it was just stuff in a file drawers. Every blue moon I can locate an old owner; most will not. We actually made a list and sent if the the bankruptcy court; but I just wasted my time; ie no responses. Some for the vellums for schools; we gave back to the schools. Legally who knows who really owns them. All the firms names on the vellums are long dead. Photos and negatives are worse; none are marked. </p>

<p>It is a real joy to reduce the pile of old stuff; it is that stuff the young crowd here wants to chuck out</p>

<p>Assuming one will always get ones stuff back is more like wishing; it does not always happen in a bankruptcy. Here I have about 2 or 3 cubic yards worth of stuff that came with buying stuff in bankruptcy. Auctions are not so orderly. The box the film scanner is in might have several dozens of negatives with just a control number; that is in some box that another bidder got; and threw out. </p>

<p>There is often not a "Defrag" down before an auction; assets get lumped by looks and not function.</p>

<p>One does not need a law license to get letters like RMFL's; you just run a business and later some folks go under; and you get theses type of letters.</p>

<p>To ALL; The chances of getting any money back in a Bankruptcy are super slim. As a practical matter; it is basically zero. Thus Joe and I are on the exact same page here.</p>

<p>IF you contact RMFL of another outfit in trouble; mention what your stuff "is"; ie roll size; color; B&W; content. You want to make it easy for them to reference you stuff. </p>

[pattie_dravis]

<p>No one has called me either....</p>

[nicholas_rapak]

<p>Mr. Mark,<br>

By all means, fill out the proof of claim. If there is anything left after repaying the IRS, you stand to maybe get something. If you don't file it, you get nothing.</p>

[jessie_b1]

<p>Hi yall-<br>

I just got my film back! I sent it to them over 2 years ago. They gave me all the runaround that everyone here has gotten. I called twice a week for 3 months til they finally sent it back to me. Steven Dock even told me personally that it was packaged up and ready to go to the post office. And 2 weeks later no film so I called again, and finally it is here. <br>

I just called today about the refund and a lady (no name) said they would not refund my money, because I asked for my film back. Ridiculous. <br>

I called back to talk to Steven and he claims he will have a check cut to me and in the mail on Fri. Ill let you know, but I'm not getting my hopes up. I guess I will keep calling until I get a reasonable response.<br>

by the way- I sent my film to Rapid Photo, Ill let you all know how that goes, but it seems like they have there "stuff" together.</p>

[jo_howell]

<p>I have re-read all the recent posts regarding the proof of claim forms and the notifications or other communications that some of you are receiving. I have not been able to locate an address or phone number for the Bankruptcy Trustee to add my name to the list of customers who are anxious to have their film returned (RMFL has now had my 9 rolls for 29 months.) Can anyone provide me or direct me where to locate the address, or other advice as to how to proceed from here? Thanks!</p>

[s_mark]

<p>Kelly, what's with all the semi colons in your ramblings?</p>

 

[s_mark]

<p>"His reorganization plan calls for NO ONE other than tax authorities (IRS, State of Colorado, City of Aurora) and his mortgage company to be paid."<br>

Is the city and state claiming sales tax is owed on services never performed? If RMFL never performed the services for which it received deposits, then there shouldn't be any sales tax collected in those cases. Maybe the Colorado sales tax rules allow that.</p>

[r_sabine]

<p>Hey Everyone-<br>

I originally posted here a few months back as one of the first to figure out there was major trouble at RMFL.<br /><br />I've spoken to Steve 3 times over the last 3 weeks and each time he claims he's still looking for my film to return. I sent them a roll of film almost TWO YEARS AGO.<br /><br />Each time we speak he promises to call me back but does not.<br /><br />My sense is he's just buying time but has no clue where my film is.<br>

I just want my film back....I'm sooooo angry and frustrated. <br>

Has anyone else experienced the same? Has anyone spoke to Steve and also learned their film is lost?<br /><br /></p>

[cory_rennebohm]

<p>Kelly F. I have been following this thread for a while now and a couple of thing are crystal clear to me. One is that is that while you may know about the photography business, Joe Kidd and Greg Miller clearly have a better grasp of what is happening with RMFL than you do. It is obvious that both of these gentlemen have spent time looking into what is happening there and what they can do to help Rocky Mountains customers get some sort of satisfaction.<br>

When I read your posts however they are far from helpful, in fact quite the opposite. If someone were mugged would you tell them it was there own fault for acting like a victim and discourage anyone who tried to help them? Would you stand looking on and yelling "Sucks to be you." and "That plan will never work."? To me that is essentially what you are doing.<br>

Judging by the better business bureau rating of Greg Miller's Film Rescue International, as well as his well thought out posts on this thread, this isn't his first Rodeo. It should also be obvious to anyone paying attention that Joe Kidd knows more about the legal ins and outs of what is happening with this situation than anyone else posting on this thread.<br>

In closing Kelly F. I submit to you that if you have any helpful or constructive suggestions for the victims of Rocky Mountain please post them. That being said, if your posts are just going to be the same old diatribes please don't bother, that way I won't have to waste time scrolling past them to find the posts of those who are actually trying to help those make the best of a bad situation.</p>

[s_mark]

<p>I received the Dock memo and the objection deadline notice of August 26.<br>

Mr. Kidd, will you be able to advise us about how to file an objection?</p>

[jo_howell]

<p>Yesterday I phoned RMFL at 303-364-6444, not expecting to even get an answering machine. Much to my suprise, the phone was immediately answered by a courteous, professional-sounding person named Jill. I stated that the purpose of my call was to request the return of my films, which had been in the company's possession for 29 months, and I stated simply that I was aware that RMFL was"undergoing major difficulties at this time", but my concern was the return of my films.<br>

Within less than two minutes, Jill was able to find my name, address, number of rolls sent, etc. (all correct), and assured me that I could expect return of my property within 7-10 days. She also stated that she would call me if there was any difficulty making that happen. When I went a step further and enquired about return of my money (@$340...which I am sure won't be returned due to the bankruptcy) she remained courteous and helpful but stated she did not have any further information on that topic.<br>

Since I live all the way across the country from RMFL, I feel a 7-10 day wait is reasonable. I will post again to let you know the outcome. I hope this gives encouragement to those wondering if our films are actually still in existence!</p>

[lance_waterman]

<p>Thanks for the last post Jo Howell! I called the number 303 364 6444, talked to the lady and she found our film straight away! The lady said they'll send the film back within two weeks. Neither had been processed. Just glad to get the film back processed or not. So I'm looking for a 'responsible' company to do that now, IF the film comes at all. Waiting.... at least there is some communication now, so there's hope. I don't care about the money anymore. I'll let you'all know if the film does in fact get delivered. Cheers!</p>

[jessie_b1]

<p>Hi-<br>

I posted here a couple days ago, I get my film back, and sent off to another company. I also did get a check in the mail on Monday for the full price. I am shocked. I guess it was worth calling a couple million times! Ill let you guys know how the film turns out when I get it back. <br>

For all of you who haven't gotten anything yet. KEEP CALLING! After over 2 years I thought it was hopeless, but am now relieved to get everything back.<br>

<br />Good Luck!</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>**jo;</p>

<p>It would be good that you get you old films back.</p>

<p>As for the 340 dollars; that is a bankruptcy matter. My own experience with bankruptcies is not the wishfull things folks post on this thread, here I have really never got much if anything ever back. Longer term over decades, it is more like less than on cent on a dollar. If I consider all the postage, forms and time spent; it is a net loss.</p>

<p>It is worth wishing for; but do not plan on that 340 dollars for anything important. It is more like the chances of winning the lottery.</p>

<p><br />**Cory;<br /> <br /> You have the right to believe that all ends well in a bankruptcy; and everybody gets their money back; or Obama will make gold bars pop out of folks backyards. Mentioning reality can hurt dreamers. Stuff is misplaced in bankruptcies all the time, it is that stuff we find in stuff we buy at auctions. It will bother the lay that others get stuff at auctions; and we really do not know who owns them/it. The world is not this simple orderly thing at all.</p>

<p>Are you going to file an objection to the bankruptcy like S Mark is hinting?</p>

<p>Do you want RMFL to be dissolved right now or allowed to try to survive?</p>

<p>One of the other gentleman you mentioned has an interest in getting all those old films; he can process them and charge folks. Here I would just prefer to get my film back; than have go to another.</p>

<p>It is not clear if all posters here understand that the best chance of them getting their film back is if RMFL is not shut down tomorrow and and all sold as scrap. Once another buys stuff in an auction; who what when and were get fragmented. Thus here my viewpoint is to let them try to survive and sort things out. Others have the right to differ.<br>

<br /> I stopped sending stuff to RMFL after this thread started 7 years ago; I lost some films forever in the 1970's when a lab went under and got disolved. Folks may not want to hear that stuff like this happens.</p>

<p>**S Mark;</p>

<p>In a bankruptcy back taxes get paid before plain creditors who are at the far end of the train. Cities and Counties can have yearly taxes on inventory, capital, and equipment. You would have to dive into the tax rules where RMFL is at to see what applies; if any at all. Sales taxes say on Jo's 340 bucks would apply if Jo was in state. As a rough swag I found Aurora to have a city sales tax of 3.75 percent and the Colorado sales tax as 2.9 percent.</p>

<p>https://www.taxview.state.co.us/QueryTaxrates.aspx?selected=1</p>

<p>If there was an in state sale for 340 dollars; then the tax man wants his share. It really does not matter if it is for a Leica Summicron; or film to be developed; or for dog grooming. It is a sale; thus taxed. To "undo" the sale would involve the 340 dollars being refunded; ie a refund of 340 dollars to cancel out the 340 dollar sale.</p>

<p>All those back taxes will be paid before any other creditor gets a penny. One has the court fees; lawyers and other stuff too.</p>

<p>One can a situation were there are many years of back taxes due.</p>

<p>**To all: 50 years ago one got one's "stuff back" if one sent in a SASE or SASE on a box with submittals and stuff to be repaired. This is what I do to get stuff back ; you make it easy for the other person.</p>

[kayleen_edwards]

<p>I got my rolls of film back but they were opened, taped back together with a sticker over each roll that read: Received Damaged!!! Also a note inside directing film over to FRI out of Canada. Film Rescue. So, to Film Rescue; I will send you these two rolls of film but I fear it will all be a wash! I am furious with Rocky Mountain! It took almost two years to get two rolls of film back and now it seems they are ruined for good!! What a depressant!</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Kayleen;</p>

<p>Good to hear you got your roll films back.</p>

<p>What size rolls are they; 127, 120/620, 116/616 , etc?</p>

<p>When I use to process roll films for the public; it was not uncommon to get a roll damaged in shipping. The bulk load 35mm snap caps; or old Fuji E4 of the 1970's was not crimped either; thus one got 35mm rolls with open ends.</p>

<p>In roll films sometimes the tape would be broken and one would get a loose roll; thus one would tighten/snug up each roll and retape them.</p>

<p>The lickable glue on those old rolls often doe not work as well after many decades; thus adding tape helps. A rubber band can be an issue; it can leave a stress mark if too tight.</p>

<p>Getting film damaged by the USPS happens more with the loose in the envelope type shipping then a box.</p>

<p>Kodak had this article in the early 1950's that mentioned something like 50,000 rolls arrive damaged each year to their processing labs. When I delt with Meisell Photochrome in the 1970's they would too remark "Received Damaged". You really do not know if the USPS ruined it or RMFL.</p>

<p>Back in the 1970's with 620 films; Kodak once had a bad batch of metal film reels and the ends would come off even while shooting; and one got the entire top or bottom edge fogged.</p>

<p>I once spent several nights shooting long time exposures with a camera piggybacked to a telescope in the 1960's. The lab lost both rolls; it got back somebodys baby images. After that the first shot became my name, address and phone to aid in getting my films back.</p>

<p>Hopefully with luck your images will come out; keep us posted. </p>

[jessie_b1]

<p>hi yall-</p>

<p>just wanted to update again. Kayleen- I sent my roll of c22 (which also took over 2yrs) to Rapid Photo in Penn. I sent it out almost 2 weeks ago with 10.00 rush. Its already done and being delivered tomorrow. The guys there were really nice and very helpful. I am going to visit my grandpa on Fri, whose camera this roll came out of, and they rushed it even faster than there rush time of 10days. I cant praise these guys enough for what they have done to take care of me. I would tell everyone here to send there film to them. They went above and beyond. Oh and by the way, they told me yesterday that there are images on the roll, so now I cant wait to see them.</p>

[michael_ephron]

I too recently got my film back from Rocky Mountain (still not done mind you).

 

However I'm thinking I'll send it off to Film Rescue as I like their guarantee a

 

lot better than getting it back quickly (I've waited this long after all).<br

 

/><br />

 

It just feels that a company that doesn't get paid if they don't do a good job

 

(and actually produces results regardless of fault, for all I know the roll is

 

blank) is going to do a better job. Especially since the film sat in unknown

 

condition at Rocky Mountain, I have no idea if there is anything left to

 

recover.<br /><br />

 

Anyway I don't mean to rain on anybody's parade and I'm happy some people got

 

their stuff done at Rapid photo and are happy with the results (has anyone seen

 

the results of the work, I didn't see any sample images on Rapid Photo's

 

website) but I just have my doubts that a 10 day (or less in the previous

 

comment's situation) job for near the same price as Film Rescue (who offers more

 

options than just CD and prints and guarantees the work) would be of better

 

quality. To each their own though and as long as people are happy.<br /><br />

 

The reason I wanted to post though (besides commenting on the above) Is I'm

 

wondering if anyone is aware of any other reputable companies that do this that

 

I should check out before I send off my film? I'm pretty sure Film Rescue is

 

the best bet out there right now, but I thought I'd ask. I just want the best

 

service I can get as I suspect the images on the film to be of my late father

 

who passed away last year.<br /><br />

 

Any help is appreciated,<br /><br />

 

Mike

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Michael;</p>

<p>An outfit that processes old obsolete film chemistries typically does it in batches.</p>

<p>Its cycle depends on how many rolls they have in the backlog.</p>

<p>They are not going to mix up gallons of stuff for one lone roll; they wait to there are several.</p>

<p>Thus if Joe Public sends in a roll and the batch gets mixed next week; he just sneaked into that batch.</p>

<p>If Jane Public sends in a roll right after a batch is done; there is a delay until there are enough rolls for the next batch.</p>

<p>It is like asking how long does one have to wait for an airport bus; but the buses just arrive when there are enough folks to make it worth while; and one does not know when one is going to land at the airport.</p>

<p>Stuff done or processed in batches adds the variable in delay due to when your film arrives with respect the the next batch to be run. If Martians land on earth tonight; they might want to watch Ice Hockey; but have to wait until fall. :)</p>

<p>A google search shows also a C22 lab in the UK; but I have no idea if they are quick or good. </p>

<p>Call both labs and talk to them; they if smart will clue you in the their batch timing </p>

[michael_ephron]

Kelly,<br /><br />

 

Thanks for all the information. In case I wasn't clear though I want quality work over speed. I've waited this many years, what's a few more weeks or months.<br /><br />

 

I'll take your advice and give them both a call on Monday and let you guys know what they say.<br /><br />

 

Hope everyone has a good weekend!<br /><br />

 

Mike