Rocky Mountain Film Lab - WARNING

[michael_bean2]

<p>Never mind! I just happened across this thread and contributed my experience before I got into the juicy bits. Thank goodness something is happening. It's a shame everyone's memories are tied up in this. It's a further shame that he's allowed to continue soliciting business on top of the back log he has already accrued. My fear is that he will take retribution on the films he develops. I certainly hope Film Rescue is given charge of the back log.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>***Would folks wished that RMFL had charged them 50 to 100 percent more and thus they had more capital and manpower to radically drop turnaround times?</p>

<p>In this sad case the low bidder crashed; ran out of capital.</p>

<p>Old film sits in folks uncle's camera for 30 years then you want chose the low bidder to develop the film in an obsolete process.</p>

<p>There really is no FDIC for film labs.</p>

<p>If RMFL goes from Chapter 13 to 7; there might be nothing left in assets afterback wages; back IRS taxes ; assets for the creditors to fight over.</p>

<p>The unfinished rolls would be a toxic asset to a buyer; a thousnd folks whining that they want their film back; and have already paid.<br>

Lord only knows how a bankruptcy judge would handle this. In print shops often one writets that one does not own the past liabilties of the old shop when one buys them out. One has inlaws fighting over stuff; architectural firms that have split fighting over Vellums from 1990; it is a real mess; thus a dumpster is often filled up.<br>

So what happens if folks prepaid for a car, lawnmower, watch, camera repair and they go under? How are theses cases handled?</p>

[diane_lewis1]

<p>I just read a post with someone saying we are whining...Am I misunderstanding something here? I hope I mis-read it! My film of my deceased mother that has some possible universal historical implications and value is not being returned and keep asking and keep getting promises but that I am vigilant constitutes 'whining'? <br>

I am hurt that Dock sounded so nice, promising to return my film and LEAH almost bit my head off for asking but then said it would be ANOTHER 3 to 6 months while they were filing for bankruptcy....but we are whining?!!!...<br>

It terrifies me that it has also been suggested that Dock could take retribution against us by dumping our films in the trash. If the judge does not help us in some way get our film back, I'm going to be so very sad!</p>

[s_mark]

<p>Kelly is confused when writing "In this sad case the low bidder crashed; ran out of capital."<br>

I never asked for anyone to bid on processing my film. I never even saw another company's price for processing my film.<br>

RMFL didn't run out of capital. Scammers never do.<br>

Rather than civil proceedings against RMFL, Dock, and "Leah" should face criminal charges.<br>

If I had the wherewithal to do so, I guarantee you that Dock and Leah would wish that they had never heard of film. I would ensure that the rest their pathetic lives exist only to endure the remedy, many times over, of the justice that their victims so much deserve.</p>

[nicholas_rapak]

<p>The problem is that RMFL <em>wasn't</em> the low bidder. They had a contract with Kodak 10+ years ago to develop EM-26 movie film, so they gained name recognition. I could go to RMFL, spend $40, and have a crap shoot; or I could go to Film Rescue, spend $22, and get all of my money back if nothing shows up. </p>

<p>Hmmm...Which was the better choice?</p>

[kayleen_edwards]

<p>I'll be the first to admit that I am "Whining" about getting my film back as Kelly so eloquently put it..Not! Apparently Kelly has no film with RMFL. I recommend to all of us who do have film with RMFL that if the judge does not take appropriate measure in getting the film back to its rightful owners then we should all file a class action lawsuit. If you take the amount of money we each pay per roll and times that by the amount of rolls never developed I guarantee there would be enough there to entice an attorney to take the case. Just think it is something we may want to consider should there be no other resolution.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>RMFL is about 30 years old. There are others that processed old stuff like C22 too.</p>

<p>This thread is almost 7 years old know. The stuff I was farming out to RMFL was mostly before this.</p>

<p>I lost some cine 16mm films back in the 1970's to a lab that went under. I can whine today and I still probably will not get the films back. Another lab bought their assets; unfinished stuff vanished. Mentioning the dumpster here gets folks upset. My 1970's lost stuff lost in a bankruptcy is probably in a land fill.</p>

<p>***If the place/RMFL went bankrupt and there are 200 ? to 1000 ? rolls to finish; what magical powers will make this backlog/logjam be completed?</p>

<p>If the money folks paid is already gone already; it seems RMFL would need some zero/low cost labor and a lot of time to process/complete the old backlog. The governments stance is not like 40 years ago where one could hire folks at 1 buck an hour; it is more like 7.24 in Colorado. Thus to just have somebody to man the telephone to talk to 1000 folks would probably be with overhead 400 per week for 40 hours.</p>

<p>It seems one has a case where a company has gobs of already paid for "stuff to do"; but the capital/cash is short. To sort out and finish "the stuff" might require slave labor; sub minimum wage/illegals; or the owner to work 24/7; ie heartattack mode. If the owner dies then one has all these toxic assets; unfinished work; 1000 whining creditors and little cash.</p>

<p>It would take an unpaid angel to deal post "dead company" to deal with hundreds of old unpaid jobs. Customer #47 will call and demand their stuff; where the heck is it; where will the money come to ship it?</p>

<p>I am not trying to defend RMFL; just saying there is a tall order to free up a past backlog when one has little capital.</p>

<p>Having one bought another print shop/lab long ago; all I can say is dealing with another's toxic assets is total hell; about the absolute worse thing known to man.</p>

<p>S Mark says that RMFL did not run out of capital; but others have posted links about IRS lockouts; bankrupty; and assets to be sold.</p>

<p>If RMFL as S Marks said "RMFL didn't run out of capital." ; why is the IRS involved; or lockouts; or bankruptcy info?</p>

<p>S Marks; explain your confusion. Do you have access to RMFL's books to say they have a lot of capital still?</p>

<p>If S Marks is correct and RMFL has capital; why is there a bankruptcy?</p>

[greg_miller10]

<p>Kelly...You keep asking who will want to take this work on and I'll explain to you why we would do just that.</p>

<p>Obviously we would not be able to do the work for nothing but we can do the work at a fairly deeply discounted rate to RMFL's and still do a very decent job of it while fully guaranteeing results from the still film and charging a discounted rate for the more labor intensive motion picture film. I don't think the forumla is as simple as you suggest ~ no capital = bankruptcy. We have a staff of between 5 to 9 people depending on what time of the day you happen upon us and our prices and policies are extremely attractive when compared to others doing this work and we survive just fine. While we don't get rich charging the prices that we do, we don't go hungry either. We in turn have very interesting work that allows us a certain degree of freedom due to our 6 to 12 turnaround time. We basically open time capsules for a living...what job gets cooler then that? </p>

<p>So yes...we're really interested in completing this work if given the opportunity. To be clear, to answer your question who is willing to take this on...we are. Beyond the logistics and dealing with angry customers who don't understand that we have no affiliation with RMFL, we are excited about the possibility of this happening. Please before you comment, keep in mind we are not looking for advise on this - we know our business well.</p>

<p>We have a standing offer in with RMFL that is certainly more to their advantage then dumping it in the trash. This offer includes absolutely no kick backs to them should we be charging again for this work. Should RMFL go into liquidation we will be immediately in contact with the bankruptcy trustee to let them know that there are better options then simply throwing this film in the trash. We will likely let them know this even before that happens and also let them know we're willing to travel at a moments notice and can be in Denver in 2 days with a truck and trailer. But right now we feel we need to set ourselves a little bit at arms length in case RMFL is able to reestablish and somehow get these films back to customers who have already paid for their order, without any additional charges. It seems like a long shot but there has to be something beyond what we see on the surface here. The question you should be asking is "why do they want to continue in business" and not "who wants this business".</p>

<p>These films are precious to people and in many cases they represent the last new glimpse a person has of a long lost loved one or simply of a forgotten time in their life. I think that "whining" is not at all an appropriate adjective to be giving people here, whether used universally to describe creditors or not. The bankruptcy trustee would have to be a pretty hard soul should RMFL go into liquidation to not give us the opportunity to contact RMFL clients and ask if they would like us to do the work at a discounted rate. It is not as hopeless as you make it seem. My guess is that one way or another peoples work in the end will get completed and my guess is certainly an informed one.</p>

<p>Have a little faith in humanity...some people do want to do the right thing and its not always entirely about profit.</p>

[greg_miller10]

<p>6 to 12 week...not month. Sorry for the typo.</p>

[diane_lewis1]

<p>Greg Miller...I am buoyant to see your turn around time of 6 to 12 weeks. At first I thought "Another 6 to 9 months!: So this is a relief!<br>

I believe everyone has given RMFL and will give them time to reestablish and get the films back to the customers. We want our films back. I see by the responses here dating back to 2003, that if there is a hope they are there, everyone wants to have this remedy.<br>

If your company is willing to come on, we send blessings your way, and thank you for being ready to take on the effort to give us bakc our memories or artistic works. We are in need of assurance of any kind. I hope you are out 'guy'.</p>

[joseph_a_kidd1]

<p>Steven Dock has filed his Chapter 13 Plan and his financial disclosures. He claims that until the IRS confiscated his equipment, he generated a monthly income of $8600, but after expenses has only $1,100 of disposable income. His plan calls for Dock to pay back all of the tax authorities -- federal, state and local -- his attorney, and the trustee (required by law to be paid), but no one else. That means all of his customers are S.O.L. in terms of getting their money back. He does list as "property belonging to others" all of the customers' film. So, the Trustee will have to figure out a way to allow people to get their film back. My guess is that because there is no money in Dock's estate, getting film back will be at the customer's expense. However, if there is a way to take advantage of Greg Miller's idea, I hope that the Trustee would do so. I, for one, intend to ask the Trustee to do just that.</p>

[s_mark]

<p>Not that it's actually relevant to the topic, but I'll explain my message that "RMFL didn't run out of capital. Scammers never do."<br>

RMFL became scam, it hasn't functioned as a legitimate business for years. It doesn't require any "capital" to run a scam. They took our money knowing we would never see our processed film.<br>

Their website is still up.</p>

[s_mark]

<p>"That means all of his customers are S.O.L. in terms of getting their money back."<br>

Just as I previously wrote - we, the true victims, won't see any justice.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Greg;<br>

More power to you if you can salvage the old stuff and make some income off of it and help folks out.</p>

<p>It is my own experience is that you should be perepared to be swore at; cursed at; even served legally because you are taking on an angry mobs "old stuff" that will claim "they already have paid for it" .</p>

<p>Many will expect you deliver with no extra fees; when in fact you might have to spend a massive about of time going through "the stuff"; answering phone calls; emails; certified letters; even folks at your doorstep "wanting to jump the counter" or go through your trash.</p>

<p>You will be dealing with folks with a very deep hatred; pissed off and many will claim "*YOU* should finish it up for free; because they have already paid already".</p>

<p>I had to call the police when a customer wanted to go into our back room and root through the "pile of stuff" I "inherited" from a print shop we once bought. You can get into trouble; because folks will "take back" anything that remotely looks like Uncle Bob; or that summer vacation in 1966. Be prepare for some folks wanting their stuff back; *BEFORE* you have a handle of what you bought/took on.</p>

<p> You might want to be armed; seriously.</p>

<p>It is not a bed of roses to buy some toxic assets; you inherit a bunch of folks who will no matter what you say; will claim that they already paid for it.</p>

<p>Many will not care about the legal stuff</p>

<p>Thus you HAVE to make it clear that you have ZERO obligations to do free work; .</p>

 

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Buy up RMFL's "old unfinished stuff" for 1 cent would be like handling all those Katrina fraud cases where folks already paid contractors; but the work is not finished.</p>

<p>Each person is deeply angry; they already have been ripped off; few if any will want to be ripped off the 2nd or 3rd time.</p>

<p>Thus one might find it harder to get folks to "prepay" again; since did this 4 years ago and still have packs of shingles on the roof; or C22 stuff they already paid for.</p>

<p> </p>

[t._matos]

<p>Question - I'm wondering how those who are filling out the claim form for the bankruptcy case are assessing the value of what you are owed. Obviously there's the film processing fee, but is there a way to list/value the worth of the film stock that RMTL is holding on to? Obviously there's no commercial value but I'd like to list it somewhere and I don't see a clear place to put it on the form.</p>

<p>If you have a suggestion, please let me know.</p>

<p> </p>

[pattie_dravis]

<p>Tara, I just put how much I gave them, in my case it was $48.50. Certainly there is an emotional "value" as well, but I am guess the courts only want the amount you are actually out.</p>

[greg_miller10]

<p>Tara, We use the amount of 4.00 per roll when importing and exporting the films that we process. This is acceptable with the customs officials that we deal with and I'm thinking it would also be acceptable to the bankruptcy trustee. </p>

<p>We arrived at this amount after looking not only at what expired film sells for when a local seller becomes overstocked and left with outdated film but also the average price that vintage film sells for on e-bay. Some is very cheap and some very expensive depending on the format. It's a growing trend - people shooting long expired film for the effect.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Tara; Pattie & Greg ; Interesting stuff with those values.</p>

<p>If an old unfinished roll was worth say 4 to 5 dollars; what if one paid them already 3X to 7X ??? (guess) already to process it?</p>

<p>With one lone roll; maybe for discussion it was worth 5 dollars; but one paid 30 dollars in advance to have the old C22 developed and printed.</p>

<p>would not ones loss be just like all the other labs; ie on roll of film plus processing?</p>

<p>In Pattie case the roll(s) ? are worth 4 to 12 bucks if 1 to 3 rolls; but she is out of pocket the 48.50 dollars too for the oddball processing.</p>

<p>One might have 500 folks listing 40 bucks and thus the court will see 20k</p>

[joseph_a_kidd1]

<p>Received a note from Steve Dock together with a copy of the Chapter 13 plan. (Everyone should be receiving the same thing.) It says in part:<br>

<em>"We want to assure you that your film and your orders are safe. All film is in our offices in Aurora Colorado (sic). Please do not contact us, the attorney, or the Court regarding delivery of your order as no updates are available at this time.</em><br>

<em>"We are attempting to re-organize the company to provide the same high quality we have produced for four decades. Unfortunately, there will be delays in delivery while the anticipated re-organization takes place."</em><br>

I'm laughing and angry at the same time. "Do not contact us", he says. Ha! Like that's EVER done any good! NOT! I spent 2 YEARS trying to contact this guy and he never responded -EVER.<br>

"provide the same high quality"??? If this is high quality, give me the worst quality. <br>

Here's my advice: CONTACT THE BANKRUPTCY TRUSTEE if you want your film back. Also, file an objection to Dock's bankruptcy plan. No way in hell that this guy should be allowed to reorganize and continue in business. I'll post more on how to object to the plan in the future.</p>

[s_mark]

<p>He has the gall to tell us "Please do not... contact the Court..." Hilarious.</p>

<p> </p>

[diane_lewis1]

<p>Just got a call from RMFL, gang! They said they are sending me back my film! We verified the order number, got a name and number so I could call them when I finally get it...and the lady said, they are indeed re-organizing the company but did not volunteer that it was in bankruptcy.<br>

She added it would still take a long time if I wanted them to do the order...I answered that is was best to send me the film back and I would call when I received it. I had to cal her back immediately to re-check the order number and someone DID answer, the same lady. It was not Leah...<br>

I will be the first to let you know when I get my film!</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>S. Mark and Joseph; you must not deal with bankrupt folks or businesses much.</p>

<p>Here I have seen that standard boilplate "wording" like "do not contact us" with most *ALL* bankruptcies.</p>

<p>It is about as common seeing a sunny day in Los Angeles; ie the norm. It is in about every bankruptcy wording where one gets a letter for the outfit.</p>

<p>The reason why is that bankruptcy is shield; thus go bone up on business 101.</p>

<p>Chapter 13 allows folks who are WAY over their heads ; ie in deep debt to repay their creditors according to a negotiated plan.</p>

<p>Bankruptcy is a shield.</p>

<p>By your tone it sounds like you want instant liquidation; ie the stuff goes on the auction block.</p>

<p>It can all be sold by the pound then; ie you stuff is just old crap in a file cabinet to be tossed out. </p>

[joseph_a_kidd1]

<p>Kelly: Why don't you bone up on some manners? If you want to insult someone, go to another forum and vent. This isn't an official bankruptcy notice. It is a "memo" from the desk of Steven Dock. So, this is a bit different from what you are think it is. If Steve Dock has your film, you will get it back whether he re-organizes or liquidates. When you get your law license or MBA, come on back. </p>

[s_mark]

<p>Kelly,<br>

The purpose of this forum thread is to discuss RMFL. Because this isn't the place, and because I'm not obligated to you in any way to explain my qualifications and background, I therefore refer you to Mr. Kidd's reply above.</p>