Karim Ghantous Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 Would you use an M9 or S2 today instead of an M10 or an S3 or an SL2? Some would, most wouldn't. Same thing as for film - a solid minority of photographers absolutely use film every day, for every job. But, most wouldn't. Film, despite its technical disadvantages, has a quality about it that keeps drawing people towards it. No wonder that Leica keeps selling more film bodies every year. And, in a similar way, older digital cameras have a quality about them that makes some people want to keep using them. This is despite the huge advances made in the past 10 years. I am not surprised that people still use M9's or S2's. Or, for that matter, Foveon sensors or old Phase One backs, etc. Personally, I would never use an M9. But, an S2? If I found a cheap one with a good sensor, then yes, I would. How about you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanford Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 I have a half dozen digital cameras ranging from ten to twenty years old and most are in regular rotation. I enjoy the challenge of the 6mp Nikon D50, no room to crop at 6mp, just like shooting slides, the photos need to just about there in camera. My Nikon D300 will yield the highest percentage of keepers per outing but these days my decision is mostly based on weight. Today will be the Panasonic GX1 with 14mm lens. The secret I think is convincing yourself you made the perfect choice no matter what you use. There will be NO new cameras in my future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJG Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 My newest digital camera (a Pentax K 1) came out in 2016 so perhaps I am using older tech by your lights, but I have no desire to go back to my earlier DSLRs with their small buffers and mediocre high ISO results. I never found anything magical about CCD chips although I know that some photographers swear by them. I still shoot B&W film in Contax RF cameras from the 1930s and 1950's for personal enjoyment but I haven't shot film for a client for over 15 years, and I can't imagine that that would change. There will always be nostalgia for older anything so I suppose it isn't surprising that the early generations of digital cameras evoke the same reactions. And to Sanford's point about buying new cameras, I think it is fair to say that digital cameras have reached a point of being a mature technology where buying a newer comers doesn't necessarily get you significantly better results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orsetto Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 (edited) Certain digital implementations with a cult following will remain sought after for as long as they can be made to work. But eventually the battery availability issue will probably do them all in, at which point they'll join old iPhones and Androids in a toxic landfill. Which will be a shame, as some of the old timers do offer a style that is difficult to emulate with todays gear. Along with the redoubtable Phase/Leaf medium format CCDs, Leica M8 and unique Sigma Foveons, other mfrs like Fuji took an even more maverick path. Fuji approached the challenges of early DSLR limitations head on, and carved a niche with very specific color and imaging characteristics targeting the portrait/wedding industry. Their final opus the S5 comes to mind, with its bespoke Fuji "dual-pixel-binning-WTH?" sensor housed in modified Nikon D200 body. Sadly, Fuji opted for a really idiotic and greedy proprietary modification to Nikon's standard battery, so its become increasingly difficult to power them up nowadays. Speaking of Nikon, some of their older sensors still offer interesting "looks" that can be tedious to emulate with newer gear. The rendering of their D2X chip was so popular they had to offer a firmware option for buyers of the full-frame D700/D3 that swapped in its color profile. Even some early Nikon consumer P/S cams were/are very underrated because of external design gimmicks: the actual PQ was quite marvelous. I've yet to see a current phone camera that matches the ethos of my pocketable 20 y/o CoolPix 3500: it exploits every one of its measly 3.2 megapixels to the hilt, and gave me many memorable travel/landscape shots. Alas Nikon battery tech in the early '00s was dreadful: most of their P/S had their power circuits wrecked by bad batteries to the point they can barely take a couple shots before dying. I spent a week traveling thru Italy back in 2005, removing and replacing the battery in my CoolPix for literally every shot to prevent instant battery drain (the pics were worth it). Edited December 23, 2023 by orsetto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polka Posted December 26, 2023 Share Posted December 26, 2023 (edited) Mine is a KodakDX7630 that I bought in 2004 ( 6Mpix on a 1/1.8" CCD modest zoom equFF : 39/117mm ). Never needed anything else digital for up to A4 prints. Plus : it has an optical viewfinder and is also very convenient for panoramics and proxi-photography (flowers and insects). But I still like to waste (B&W) film with MF (Zenza Bronica) cameras and print them pictures in a "wet" laboratory. POLKa Edited December 26, 2023 by polka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allancobb Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 I still use my trusty 10.3 MP CCD Leica M8 on occasion, especially for handheld infrared. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen_S Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 If I had a plain M9, I might use it, until I have 3(!) M10s or 11s. Or instead of those, because I (whyever) might like to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_bellayr Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 As for digital cameras the Iphone seems to have replaced almost all models and it has advantages that a digital camera does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Vongries Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 45 minutes ago, steve_bellayr said: As for digital cameras the Iphone seems to have replaced almost all models and it has advantages that a digital camera does not. Do list a few significant ones. I'll always use cameras and don't even own a phone, but am interested in the perceived advantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karim Ghantous Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 5 hours ago, Sandy Vongries said: Do list a few significant ones. I'll always use cameras and don't even own a phone, but am interested in the perceived advantages. I can list one: slow motion. I use an iPhone XS and it can do 240fps HD. That's a genuine 240fps. Of course this is meaningless if you need a telephoto lens. But, it's there. Otherwise, I don't see how a phone can replace a compact zoom camera. It makes no sense to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Katz Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 With respect to smartphone's takeover of photography, for most people (who aren't a PN member or read DP Review), this has occurred. Late generation phones are capable of taking really good images when used within their performance envelope, which is increasing each year due to improvements in the hardware and computational advances. While an experienced photographer may be able to exploit the benefits of a high end compact zoom camera, like the Sony RX100's, the current top end Iphone has focal range coverage of 13mm to 120mm (FF equivalent), and the main 48mp camera has a sensor size of 71 sq mm, which is larger than most compact zoom cameras, except for the 116 sq mm Sony 1" sensor used in the RX100's and other high end compact cameras. Most consumers are quite happy with the output. A few years ago we were taking our granddaughter for a stroll on the La Jolla Coast Walk (where the sea lions are), shooting on a bright sunny day with my Olympus EM-5 and now obsolete Iphone 12. Both cameras provided very good images, but with the Iphone 12 images, with its auto HDR mode, a light touch of levels in LR was all I needed to do. The Olympus images had milky white backgrounds, for which the blue sky could be extracted, but needed far more processing and masking in LR to get them to look as good as what the Iphone produced without any intervention. Not a bad performance for the vast majority of parents and grandparents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_bellayr Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Asked to list some advantages: Has video, light weight, you can take it into venues where cameras are prohibited. Send photos from the Iphone easily, need one item at hardware store photograph it to show salesman then delete. Need repairs show it to workers. Guy repaired my roof and showed the repairs made without my climbing up to see it. Also app on my cell phone for light meter when I use cameras without meters. I find my cellphone to be a different photographic tool than a film camera, which I also use extensively. My Nikonos V is too rugged to give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 "As for digital cameras the iPhone seems to have replaced almost all models and it has advantages that a digital camera does not" Steve. Well, the advantages of a iPhone are significant, You do not have the bother of looking through a viewfinder to take your photos. And on a sunshine day, you cannot see the screen ;this is special as it enables you to enjoy the sunshine. Is that not so cool? Better, it is a slippery thing easy to drop, and you can claim for a new one on your insurance. Wow. And, because it has a tiny tiny sensor all your photo will look software driven without any character/feeling a camera/quality lens would give. Sterile, like a hospital ward. How cool is that. Best of all is the high quality cheap plastic build. And every few months you can upgrade it to the same sort of cheap plastic thing. Yes, it is really cheap plastic, made somewhere cheap... ....guess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanford Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 On the plus side, nobody ask me for directions anymore...I don't give very good directions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 "the plus side, nobody ask me for directions anymore...I don't give very good directions" Sandy. Well, once upon time when I had too many gold coins in my pocket ,I decided to have flying lessons. Sort of thought like a bird flying through the sky. So, I passed all formalities, and was ready for my first solo flight. Then I remembered, I have absolutely no sense of direction, a family characteristic. Visions, of me lost in the clouds, wandering around the sky's until the fuel run out. I thought ,maybe I could glide down ,on a motorway or something. Then I thought fkhat. And here I'm today. You lucky folk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Katz Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 7 minutes ago, Allen Herbert said: And on a sunshine day, you cannot see the screen I spend a plenty of time in sunny San Diego visiting my grandchildren, and with a modern (glare resistant) Iphone screen, only occasionally do you have to shade the screen to see. It sure helps my ageing back to hold the phone at a 2.5 year old level instead of bending down and trying that with a viewfinder. 13 minutes ago, Allen Herbert said: Better, it is a slippery thing easy to drop, and you can claim for a new one on your insurance I have had Iphones for about 12 years and have never broken the phone. Get a case with grippy sides, or one of those knobs on the back if you need it. 23 minutes ago, Allen Herbert said: And, because it has a tiny tiny sensor all your photo will look software driven without any character/feeling a camera/quality lens would give. Sterile, like a hospital ward Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but the latest top of the line Iphone (and Samsung I believe) main camera sensor is 71 sq mm. Compact p&s cameras used to have sensors between 25-45 sq mm and the big sensor in Sony's RX100 series is only 116 sq mm. My m43 sensor is a whopping 225 sq mm. 28 minutes ago, Allen Herbert said: Best of all is the high quality cheap plastic build I guess you have not recently picked up an Iphone. Try titanium and ceramic (gorilla glass?). Rated water resistance is 6 meters for 30 minutes. 35 minutes ago, Allen Herbert said: And every few months you can upgrade it to the same sort of cheap plastic thing. 3 Iphones in 12 years. No plastic in any of them. I don't really care what anyone thinks of smartphones. I use them along with my "big" (m34!) cameras including pro zooms and primes. I have used EOS DSLR's and SLR's previously and of course film for about 40 years . After a trip, I load the files from the EM-5iii and 2 phones into LR. Sometimes the phone images are better (more appealing, more interesting, more spontaneous) than images from my "big" camera. Sometimes the Olympus images are better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) Ken, we would disagree until the end of time... Suffice to say the iPhone is like the swiss army knife jack of all trades master of none. "but the latest top of the line Iphone (and Samsung I believe) main camera sensor is 71 sq mm. Compact p&s cameras used to have sensors between 25-45 sq mm and the big sensor in Sony's RX100 series is only 116 sq mm. My m43 sensor is a whopping 225 sq mm" Ken. Let us not forget the lens, Ken.. Important. Size, does matter. "3 Iphones in 12 years. No plastic in any of them. Ken. Fairy tale of marketing. 35per cent at least plastic. Flimsy build, cheap materials, try dropping it from a few feet. "modern (glare resistant) Iphone screen, only occasionally do you have to shade the screen to see" Ken. Really, I can offer you many photos of iPhone users struggling to see their screen .Real world. Bottom line if using a iPhone works for you great. Some of us are a bit more ..... Edited January 6 by Allen Herbert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Katz Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) In September 2023, my EM-5iii fell about 1.5 feet inside a camera bag. The IBIS module was damaged, and the camera was inoperable until fixed by OM. My well padded camera case fell out of an aircraft overhead bin, and the Canon 70-200 F4L's AF module was damaged, and never actually fixed correctly by Canon USA. Anything mechanical, electronic, and made with glass can break. I have never broken a phone, and they have been dropped a few times (never fell out of my hands.) Every digital camera has plenty of plastic inside notwithstanding the exterior finish. Canon "L" lenses have plastic inside. Most smartphones are well made, from quality materials, and are not a plastic POS or flimsy, as has been described multiple times in the PN forums. We actually use our phones in actual bright sunlight, in really sunny places, including beaches in San Diego (where the sun almost always shines). Sometimes you have to shade the screen a bit if the sun is shining at a difficult angle. Not a big deal at all. Your photos of Iphone users struggling with their screens would be most welcome! Like it or not, the people who are not professional photographers or serious amateurs will not be buying dedicated cameras. Pros and serious amateurs also take great images with them, as displayed in PN and elsewhere. I am not ready to give up my so called "real" camera yet. Edited January 6 by Ken Katz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zweeko Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 can you make calls from a camera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCL Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Late comer to Iphone, with lots of skepticism and reservations after using high end SLR/DSLRs/digital cameras since the 1950s. What I realized was that I always had the Iphone with me whereas I didn't always have a camera with me. I could send my daughter images on the spot, not so easy to do with a camera. Yes I still use film, and digital bodies...but the phone is just soooo handy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanford Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 When tourists want their photo taken with their phone, they always look for someone carrying around a real camera to do it. Phone cameras are amazing the way they can pick out faces but I have real problems holding them securely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieH Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 olympus camedia 2 megapixel I bought thrifting. I love that its perfectly imperfect compared to my 2016 and up digital cameras. This is with simple bw conversion. Yesterday. I like it better than my phone and even my more precise late model digitals. It isn't great in low light, but in good light it has a quality I don't get from my later model cameras. 5 Henri Matisse. “Creativity takes courage” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen_h Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 I have a D1X that I take out sometimes. Cost $42 about two years ago. The D1X was about $6000 new, so a pretty good discount. About 6MP, so enough for many uses today. 2 -- glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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