Nikon Z8 Announced, US$3999.95

[Dieter Schaefer]

10 hours ago, ShunCheung said:

Back in 2016, the D5 was $5500

$6500.

 

[mike_halliwell]

10 minutes ago, Dieter Schaefer said:

$6500.

Expensive Shun typo me thinks!!  🤣

[c_watson1]

Never mind the impact of rising interest rates on consumers' purchase choices, right? Buying a Z8 just might not be a priority for many now.

[ShunCheung]

2 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

Expensive Shun typo me thinks!!  🤣

Thought I proof read it a couple of times, but somehow I still managed to save myself $1000 getting the D5 back in 2016. 🙂  Thanks for pointing that out. I have corrected my earlier post with a strike-out of the typo.

[BeBu Lamar]

So the Z8 is the second camera that has no mechanical shutter. So far I haven't heard of anyone complained about rolling shutter on the Z9 so electronic shutter works fine even without global shutter. I wonder when Canon and Sony will follow. 

[ShunCheung]

Rolling shutter is the result of capturing some fast-moving subject while the image from different areas of the frame is capture at slightly different times. That can happen to mechanical focal-plane shutters as well as electronic shutters. It is not an issue unique to electronic shutters and the Z9 and Z8.

This wiki page has a few examples with propellers and helicopter rotors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_shutter

[BeBu Lamar]

I know that the focal plane shutter has rolling shutter problem too but less so than many cameras electronic shutter. I really do not like the mechanical shutter but I wonder why by now only Nikon makes camera without mechanical shutter. (well I don't count things like cell phone or some P&S).

[mike_halliwell]

2 hours ago, c_watson1 said:

the impact of rising interest rates on consumers' purchase choices

If you buy on credit, you're right. Higher interest rates are supposed to lower inflation, ie slow down price rises, but there's not much sign of that in the UK.

It's rarely an investment to buy camera kit, but you might as well spend savings on something you'll use now. Savings interest is like 2%, inflation is about 12%. No point saving.

I think it's s smart move by Nikon to try and sell the Z8 to current Z9 users as maybe a smaller backup or for when you don't need the bulk/weight of the bigger battery.

and maybe even the 2nd slot being SD..... I could use that sometimes. 

 

 

[c_watson1]

20 minutes ago, mike_halliwell said:

If you buy on credit, you're right. Higher interest rates are supposed to lower inflation, ie slow down price rises, but there's not much sign of that in the UK.

It's rarely an investment to buy camera kit, but you might as well spend savings on something you'll use now. Savings interest is like 2%, inflation is about 12%. No point saving.

I think it's s smart move by Nikon to try and sell the Z8 to current Z9 users as maybe a smaller backup or for when you don't need the bulk/weight of the bigger battery.

and maybe even the 2nd slot being SD..... I could use that sometimes. 

What about the higher cost of debt service on mortgages, loans of all kinds??? That's a big hole in many pockets now. Sayonara splurge toy purchases, mate.

 

 

[mike_halliwell]

18 minutes ago, c_watson1 said:

What about the higher cost of debt service on mortgages, loans of all kinds???

Yup, that's what I meant with "buy on credit" ....🙂

[c_watson1]

4 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

Yup, that's what I meant with "buy on credit" ....🙂

People are cash-starved now. Period. What's not to get?

[mike_halliwell]

3 minutes ago, c_watson1 said:

People are cash-starved now

Some, definitely, but not everyone.

However, you've only got to see those who drive a stupidly large SUV 'on finance' to keep up appearances on the school run to realize this is hard to judge.

Sure, not everyone has $4K to drop on a camera...but I suspect the Z8 is not aimed at those that are in that category.

Nikon will sell a shed load.

At £4K, that's not too much 'old' stuff to part-exchange for either.... although, interestingly, no-one has given a figure for a Z9 trade-in...😉

[ilkka_nissila]

Some LED panels used on sports venues reportedly give more clear artifacts on the Z9 than cameras with a mechanical shutter. Z9 users have also reported issues with some third-party flashes. I suspect these can be mitigated with firmware (tweaking the timings). I prefer the clean ES so one doesn't have to fiddle with ES/EFCS/MS mode settings. MS too sometimes has problems with flickering lights. 

Edited May 16, 2023 by ilkka_nissila

[raczoliver]

If they did away with the mechanical shutter on the pro cameras, I think this is going to be the new norm on all their future releases. I haven't used a Z9 (or Z8) yet, but I very much like the idea of being completely silent. I'd have to try to know for sure, but I think I would keep the sound off as long as I can get some visual feedback in the viewfinder (if I'm not mistaken there's an option to have flashing bars at the edges of the viewfinder image) that a shot is being taken.

 

I had plenty of rolling shutter effect with digital SLRs with a mechanical shutter when photographing out of airplanes with the propeller in the frame. I just had to learn to choose the shutter speed more wisely. I'd rather have the propeller blades all blurred than appearing bent and sliced up.

[c_watson1]

17 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

Some, definitely, but not everyone.

However, you've only got to see those who drive a stupidly large SUV 'on finance' to keep up appearances on the school run to realize this is hard to judge.

Sure, not everyone has $4K to drop on a camera...but I suspect the Z8 is not aimed at those that are in that category.

Nikon will sell a shed load.

At £4K, that's not too much 'old' stuff to part-exchange for either.... although, interestingly, no-one has given a figure for a Z9 trade-in...😉

Further evidence that Nikon is rudderless: Too-late entry into MILCs and video capability relative to Canon and Sony; retreat from prosumer merch;goofy product bombs(DFc); numb to a shrinking market for DSLRs and MILCs. Friends behind photo retail counters in Toronto don't see a winner in the Z8 since it will chill Z9 sales but not fly off shelves. Glad I jumped ship.

[John Di Leo]

I ordered mine on day 0. It will replace my aging d810. It aged more when my wife dropped it into the chocolate cake and now the FORMAT button no longer works. Don't ask. I have been putting off birthday and Christmas presents for 2 years waiting for this. 

[ShunCheung]

2 minutes ago, John Di Leo said:

I ordered mine on day 0. It will replace my aging d810. It aged more when my wife dropped it into the chocolate cake and now the FORMAT button no longer works. Don't ask. I have been putting off birthday and Christmas presents for 2 years waiting for this. 

Perfect excuse to buy a new Z8 that your wife cannot object. 😁  Now you need to add some Z lenses.

[hjoseph7]

On 5/15/2023 at 8:59 AM, BeBu Lamar said:

So the Z8 is the second camera that has no mechanical shutter. So far I haven't heard of anyone complained about rolling shutter on the Z9 so electronic shutter works fine even without global shutter. I wonder when Canon and Sony will follow. 

Does that mean no more worn-out shutters that have to be replaced ?

[mike_halliwell]

I don't think Chocolate was mentioned in the 'weather-sealed' catagory?

[ShunCheung]

9 minutes ago, hjoseph7 said:

Does that mean no more worn-out shutters that have to be replaced ?

That is correct. However, the Z8 and Z9 now have a sensor shield that is like a shutter in front of the sensor to protect it from dust. I have seen a few isolated reports that the shield malfunctions, but I don't think that is a wide-spread problem. Whether that may become a more common issue when the Z9 is 5, 6, 7 ... years old, time will tell.

[BeBu Lamar]

4 hours ago, hjoseph7 said:

Does that mean no more worn-out shutters that have to be replaced ?

Not only being worn out I doubt that any mechanical shutter is accurate to 1/10 of a stop especially at high shutter speed like 1/1000 and up.

[John Di Leo]

4 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

I don't think Chocolate was mentioned in the 'weather-sealed' catagory?

True dat! I have always bought weather sealed cameras over the years, now this! It was the icing on the cake.

[bgelfand]

6 hours ago, John Di Leo said:

True dat! I have always bought weather sealed cameras over the years, now this! It was the icing on the cake.

I will give you a like for that pun, but it does not quite express its effect on me. I think what I am looking for is a man holding his nose. This one is so bad it's good, even great! 😉

Edited May 17, 2023 by bgelfand
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[mike_halliwell]

At-least it was, I guess, a soft chocolate cake....🙂

Could have been Rock Buns...😱

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_cake

[ilkka_nissila]

19 hours ago, raczoliver said:

If they did away with the mechanical shutter on the pro cameras, I think this is going to be the new norm on all their future releases.

I don't think so. The removal of mechanical shutter was possible in the Z9 and Z8 because of the very fast 1/270s read time of the sensor. However, there is a penalty in dynamic range with fast readout sensors and e.g. the Z6 II beats the Z9 at all ISOs in photographic dynamic range when both images are resized to the same size (i.e. typically 8 MP is used for reporting sensor tests, but it could be anything). This reflects how noisy the shadows appear in equal size viewing.

 

There will likely be higher-resolution sensors in future Nikon camera models that use a mechanical shutter. Currently the Sony A7R IV and V have 61 MP sensors and 1/10s read time. The Fuji GFX 100 MP sensor has a 1/6s read time at its best quality setting. These are so slow that any movement in electronic-shutter mode is likely to cause significant distortion. Nikon probably wants to go beyond the current 45 MP because they have designed the Z lenses to be very high resolution and there is probably significant potential for further detail with the S-line lenses that is currently not recorded. These cameras are likely to have mechanical shutters so that people can use them for general applications and not only static subjects.

 

Further, the stacked sensor that allows fast read time is likely to be so expensive to manufacture that they can't put it into less expensive cameras than the Z8, unless they go with a DX model which could be priced similarly to Fuji's X-2HS which is an APS-C camera with stacked sensor. But the Fuji's sensor isn't quite as fast as the Z9's and does have a mechanical shutter. If Nikon make a high-end DX camera for action for the Z mount then that could be shutter-free if they use a similar technology as they did in the Z9/Z8 but just make it smaller.

 

So it could be that for a while the Z8 and Z9 may be the only Z models without mechanical shutters, until they develop new sensors. I am sure this will be their goal, but it is costly to develop sensors and most people cannot afford the Z8 or Z9 so the mechanical shutters will be likely used for many years still.