Colour in the streets

[samstevens]

2 hours ago, machts gut said:

But I won't accept your definition of art as defined by the market.

You’re in good company here. There’s a lone voice repeating this limited view, without reason. Its limitations won’t change no matter how many times it’s repeated.

Edited March 3, 2023 by samstevens

[Dustin McAmera]

In the Guardian yesterday:

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/mar/03/in-living-colour-forgotten-photographs-werner-bischof

 

It seems Werner Bischof took a Devin Tricolor camera along with him on some of his working trips. This makes three colour-filtered black-and-white plates of each exposure, which you can then reassemble into a colour print, or make plates for press use. So it has three plate-holders arranged around two part-silvered mirrors. From the Guardian piece, ''The bulky contraption was lent to him by the Zurich publisher Conzett & Huber, an international leader in the field of colour gravure, which used the illustrated magazine Du as its calling card. Bischof was assigned to furnish the magazine with colour images".

 

At Camera-wiki: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Devin_Tricolor_Camera

The camera exists as a 6.5x9 cm model, or 5x7 inch. I guess we're safe assuming it's the smaller one he used!

[Dustin McAmera]

Oops: I see JDMvW posted a link to this already in another forum:

 

[Allen Herbert]

"But I won't accept your definition of art as defined by  the market", Members

Me neither, however the majority of aspiring photographers don't think so. They want their photographs to be published and be commercially excepted.

 "There’s a lone voice repeating this limited view, without reason. Its limitations won’t change no matter how many times it’s repeated" Sam.

There you go again Sam. What have you say other than I'm a lone voice. It its all about for you pleasing the crowd. The first to tie the knot.

Lone voices.

Paul Cezanne

Claude Monet

Paul Gaugiun

And the list of lone voices goes on and on.

 

 

[Allen Herbert]

Overall, the global art market was valued at 65.1 billion U.S. dollars in 2021.

Facts and figures. Serious business.

 

[httpwww.photo.netbarry]

I think Allen's correct in his assessment of many younger, upcoming (the photo world calls them "emerging" photographers are looking to be shown and accepted and commercially viable.  That's a different issue from what constitutes art.

[inoneeye]

Let’s not forget the lone fine art color photography voices that emerged when most of us here were youngsters. Many have been mentioned in this thread. Countless more have moved on and buried the notion that fine art street photography is a constrained black and white thing.

Commercial success has followed…. It was not until print longevity could be assured that color photography became a viable attraction to fine art dealers and collectors.  

Edited March 5, 2023 by inoneeye

[Allen Herbert]

 "fine art street photography is a constrained black and white thing".  Inoneeye

Constrained?

Walker Evans once called Colour "Vulger" He also said, to put it simply, B/W were the colours of Photography.

" not until print longevity could be assured that colour Photography became a viable attraction" Iononeeye 

Yet, despite being able to enhance, any faded color prints with todays technology to its original....

Henri Cartier-Bresson print in colour or B/W...what would you choose?

 

 

[inoneeye]

From the essay that Evans wrote “There are four simple words on the matter, which must be whispered: Color photography is vulgar.”
He also writes; "Almost always, color can be used well only by a photographer who is an artist of perfect taste"  

 

Color for many of us is a challenge, even an obstacle. It is for me. Obviously digital has made it easier to experiment, explore color. Before digital - color was out of my reach financially. I need, wanted pp control. Without darkroom post processing control I was limited to black and white.
During the 70s I envied many color photographers that i came across. At first i was taken in by those that used the vulgar, garish color palettes to express themselves in new ways.  As time passed my taste for subtle color also developed. 

Now with digital I take a lot of color photos... but i am a better black and white photographer. I have not found my footing using the added layer of color to express myself.
IMO Bresson excelled as a black and white photographer and was a mediocre color photographer. Evans was actually a very decent color photographer, in particular his sx70 was quite good.
 

SX70 and polaroids were my first adventures in color.

Nevada road trip . spectre

orphan andy's 3am - sx70

 

 

Ansel Adams color work was also very good but he also never could 'master' the genre.

before digital Adams noted “I have done no color of consequence for thirty years! I have a problem with color—I cannot adjust to the limited controls of values and colors. With black-and-white I feel free and confident of results.” and "color photography is rapidly becoming of major importance." AA

 

All this is in the past, photography (including fine art) has evolved beyond a bw vs color debate... no barriers.
My hope is that there comes a time that i feel as comfortable expressing myself in color as i do in black and white.

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by inoneeye

[Allen Herbert]

 

"All this is in the past, photography (including fine art) has evolved beyond a bw vs color debate... no barriers.
My hope is that there comes a time that i feel as comfortable expressing myself in color as i do in black and white. inoneeye

 

My emphasis, is more about street photography, than general photography. So, I think colour in street photography.... colour,  particularly (nuclear colours) is really about the colour rather than the actual content..

 

Alex Web among others come to mind,. among others.

 

I think colour photography, is very challenging  ...a difficult challenge when the emphasis is about the colour over content.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Allen Herbert

[Allen Herbert]

"IMO Bresson excelled as a black and white photographer and was a mediocre color photograph"IMO 

Why would that be? Methinks, It would more about content than the medium used. Don't you think so?

Art has never been about the medium used, its always been about the Art. 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Allen Herbert

[inoneeye]

I think it does matter. As a viewer and as an artist.

Bresson on color photography; “ It’s disgusting. I hate it! […] I did it badly because I don’t believe in it.”

 

[samstevens]

“I saw the Angel in the marble and carved until I set him free.”
—Michelangelo (purported artist)

[Allen Herbert]

“I saw the Angel in the marble and carved until I set him free.”
—Michelangelo (purported artist) Sam.

He was also a bit of a dab hand with the brush, Sam.. Methinks, you have to give Artistic credit to those who can express their Art, without being restricted to a single medium of Art. Leonardo da Vinci comes to mind.

Art comes in all mediums , Cueva de las Manos (Cave of hands) to Aboriginal Art Bark paintings. It is not restricted..

[Allen Herbert]

https://www.phaidon.com/agenda/photography/articles/2012/november/01/henri-cartier-bresson-a-question-of-

Seems to me his colour photography was of a standard with his B/W. 

And of course he was happy to paint in colour his first love.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Allen Herbert

[inoneeye]

 

Your link got cut Allen;

https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/11/09/color-vs-black-and-white-photography-debate-stirred-by-new-cartier-bresson

Not his color photos... his influence on other photographers  -The show presents 15 rarely seen black-and-white photos by famed French photographer Henri Cartier-Bresson alongside 75 color prints by 15 noted photographers from Europe and North America.-

Edited March 14, 2023 by inoneeye

[inoneeye]

Your replacement/edited link is also cut; the first link is the exhibit, this one is the book.

https://www.phaidon.com/agenda/photography/articles/2012/november/01/henri-cartier-bresson-a-question-of-colour/

Edited March 14, 2023 by inoneeye

[Allen Herbert]

Thanks!

[inoneeye]

23 minutes ago, inoneeye said:

this one is the book.

article not book.

[Allen Herbert]

"this one is the book. Article not book". Inoneeye

Thanks for the corrections but I'm suffering from a wonderful dose of flu at the moment. More into my sufferings than anything else,

Bit confusing and shame not a book.  Articles are there and everywhere .A book has a lot more substance and has a serious cost.

Anyway, a recent book I was given.

 

[Allen Herbert]

I've only had a flick through, but instantly the work of Julia Margaret Cameron struck me....

Something a bit special in her work. A soul seeker.

[Allen Herbert]

I suppose the bottom line is B/W captures the essence of the Street Photograph. It removes the distraction of colour, capturing the essence portraying the truths. . 

Colour also can do that, however, they tend to rely on the colour (often saturated) to create which is basically a pleasing colour photograph.

[hjoseph7]

I have 4 books on Ansel Adams (The Camera, The Negative and The Print) these are the basic books everybody that has studied photography has in their library. Well mostly everybody ? I have another book called "Ansel Adams in Color". What, Ansel Adams delved in color photography ? That's prepostorous !

Guess what, his images in color are just as good if not better than his B&W photos even though he got into it pretty late in his career. I think it was his family that gathered all his color pictures and made a book out of it.    

[Allen Herbert]

"Guess what, his images in color are just as good if not better than his B&W photos" hjoseph7,

Guess what my friend it is a commercial world, Your personal preferences mean squat nothing in the real world.

Nobody, and nobody, is going to invest in a serious way in Ansell Adams colour photos or for that matter Henri Cartier Bresson's colour photos.

What does that tell you?

[Allen Herbert]

Money speaks in all languages including Art. It decides what is Art.

The real decider. How does the old saying go  ..".put your money where your mouth is"