Switching from B&W manual photography to digital color manually operated photography: TIPS?

[Jennifer Johnson]

Hello! I am in a beginner photography class where we are using 50mm cameras with black and white film. As of now we are developing the film in the darkroom as well. I am looking forward to getting a color (digital) camera but would still like to use what I was taught and bracket my pictures, etc.  What do you think would be beneficial to know in doing this, as a beginner in photography?

Thanks in advance!

[httpwww.photo.netbarry]

Having done that myself I definitely think the skills you are learning about exposure, depth of field, lighting etc and how to use your camera to achieve them in your B/W class will transfer over to using a digital camera manually.  Processing digital images will be different, but the darkroom printing you will do will also apply in terms of thinking through a print, ie contrast exposure, even dodging/burning concepts have digital equivalents, and of course there is more, much more to learn in both film and digital post processing.  But basics of your film class will really help you in working in digital.  Hope this is helpful.  🙂

[Bill C]

Hi, do you have a digital camera yet?

Regardless, here's how I'd suggest to start. Let the camera do the work via its built-in jpeg capability. With this you need to have two things pretty close - they are the exposure, which you probably understand somewhat by now, and something called the "white balance."

Let's cover the difficult one, white balance, first. Most people don't realize how much the color of light(s) varies because our eyes automatically adjust for it. But in photography it falls on you, more or less. Although digital cameras have a built-in automatic "white balance" capability it's not always the best. You can generally improve it, at least somewhat, by manually setting it. When the "white balance" is properly set, white things will look white (as opposed to, say, slightly pinkish, or perhaps yellowish, or some other color). And when the white things are white then other colors will also be right, more or less. So what I am suggesting is that for critical work you MANUALLY set the WHITE BALANCE (your camera manual will describe how to do it).

Is this getting too complicated?

Now for the exposure... you probably know how to meter exposure for your film camera. The same sort of method will work for the digital camera. But... the digital camera typically has a more precise method for checking a test exposure. It's called a histogram, and can be displayed on the back of the camera. Check your camera's manual, but typically you display an image on the back of the camera, then press an "info" button, or similar, until the histogram is displayed. It is basically a graph, from left to right, with a bunch of bars.

Here's the trick - if you take a close-up shot of white paper (or gray, or whatever) the histogram will be a single spike (mostly) showing where the exposure is. A spike on the left means "dark," and a spike on the right means "light." If you make manual changes to the exposure this spike will move from side to side. So, you need to know where you want the spike to be. For a gray card it should near the center.  For white paper it should be near, but not quite to the far right.

Sorry if this is getting too complicated. But... if you can follow along you will be able to get well-exposed images, with good color, of set-up scenes.

Finally, let's put it together. Have a friend sit somewhere, with good light, for some photos. Have them hold a piece of white paper while you make a custom white balance for it (per the camera manual).

Next, while they are still holding the white paper, use it to fine tune the exposure. (Use a "manual exposure" mode, per the camera manual, as well as a fixed "ISO speed") Make a test exposure, then look at the histogram. For white paper you want the spike to be close to the right side - somewhere between 3/4 and all the way to the right. Increasing the exposure moves the spike to the right, etc.

Once the white balance and exposure are set you can go ahead and shoot all the photos you want UNDER THE SAME LIGHTING CONDITION. More than likely you are gonna have the best color and exposure in your class.

Caution: immediately after the shooting session I recommend resetting the camera to automatic white balance and auto-exposure. (To make sure that when you have a once-in-a-lifetime chance to photograph a flying saucer landing you'll be ready.)

Best of luck. 

[Jochen_S]

Get a recentish camera that lets you shoot RAW + JPEG and plenty of memory card space. 

Learn to read your histogram in the field, to judge exposure. 

If you want to do exact color reproduction an X-rite passport color cecker (test target, to judge the light you had and calibrate your post processing to your camera and lens' flaws) will be helpful.

Color cameras are handy to generate BW images from their files. You can pick the right filter during post processing instead of guessing it before you shoot. 

Manual exposure has its place, when you are shooting tethered in a studio. Out in the field occasionally interfering with auto everything cutsnthe cake quite well. 

Dabble, its cheap! 

If it is within your budget maybe get a MILC, to see what you 'll get right in your EVF but all other camera types can be fun too.

[SCL]

IMPORTANT: READ THE MANUAL BEGINNING TO END several times as you get acquainted with your new camera. I'm continually amazed by photographers who ask questions the answers of which are covered in their user manuals. They're God-awful long, but the devil is in the details. Above advice is very good as well, and good luck.

[mikemorrellNL]

I'm an exclusively digital photographer and I have no experience in manually shooting or developing film.

I fully agree with @httpwww.photo.netbarry that there are many skills (the basics) that you can transfer directly from B/W film photography to digital (color) photography. @Bill Calso  makes some good points about white balance and using the histogram. I would however disagree with Bill on two points: (always) letting the camera do the jpeg conversion and (always) setting the white balance before taking photos (although this is fine too!). 

My guess is that - starting out in digital color photography - it makes sense to transfer as many of your current skills as possible. Including, for example, exposure bracketing.

IMHO one of the major differences between film photography and digital photography is the wider scope of 'digital post-processing' that's possible with digital camera files. How much post-processing digital photographers choose to do is a personal preference. And digital post-processing is a different skillset and takes time to learn (should you wish to).

So as @Jochen1664876637 suggests, I would always choose to save RAW (data) files in addition to jpeg files on your camera. Personally, I only save RAW files. What are RAW files and why save them? RAW files are basically just a copy of the (unprocessed) data that the sensor of any digital camera records. A digital sensor replaces the film in a film camera. Even if you don't do anything with the RAW files now, you may at some time wish to revisit them to do some additional post-processing. If not, they're easily deleted!

Digital post-processing can never (completely) salvage a badly exposed photo. For example one where the highlights are completely blown out or where shadows contain little or no information besides being 'black'. But assuming you start off with a reasonably good exposure, both the exposure histogram and the white balance can be corrected/adjusted in post-processing. Together with things like color saturation, contrast, etc. Not just for 'whole photos' but for individual parts too. Digital post-processing is generally more accurate and more flexible using RAW data than using (compressed) JPEG files.

So while it's fine to start out by transferring your 'B/W film methods' to 'digital color', just be aware that further down the road you have other (digital) options in post-processing. For example, I haven't used exposure bracketing for years. I just dial down or dial up the exposure settings in post-processing. Even creating and combining multiple copies, each with a different exposure setting. Similarly, the white balance setting on my camera is always set to 'auto'. It's never applied to RAW data, only to JPEG files. So I apply any WB corrections on my Laptop in post-processing. The same applies to digital B/W photos. The general advice is take all digital photos (even the ones you intend to be B/W) in color. Then you have many more options to create the B/W 'look' you want rather than letting the camera decide how a B/W jpeg photo should look.

 

 

[za33photo]

The most important thing in my viewpoint is understanding and becoming completely comfortable with your camera , no matter what make it is , learn its foibles (all camera's have them to one degree or another).

Your film B&W skills will serve you well once you go digital.

There will be occasions when a photo "just works" in B&W rather than colour.

I do not do digital "post-processing" , I try to "get it right first time" in the camera and sometimes I am successful, yes , it can be done 😁.

Practice a lot as digital is a relatively cheap means of taking photo's.

Continue to use your film camera alongside your future digital camera.

 

 

 

[Bill C]

1 hour ago, mikemorrellNL said:

I would however disagree with Bill on two points: (always) letting the camera do the jpeg conversion and (always) setting the white balance before taking photos (although this is fine too!)

Hi Mike. Don't overlook that this is a beginner question. (I'm even a bit embarrassed that I made it as complicated as I did.) If one does as I suggested it is almost guaranteed that pretty good (to perhaps very good) color will be the result.

If, on the other hand, one attempts to start out with RAW files here are some things they must deal with: 1) obtain and learn to use an image-processing program, and 2) have a display monitor that is "adequate," colorwise, for image processing. If #2 is not "known" to be the case then the monitor ought to be "profiled" (according to ICC standards) by using a hardware/software profiling package. Additionally the user must develop some considerable skill in judging color appearance on a monitor. 

So contrast this situation with my suggestion to 1) manually set white balance and 2) manually set exposure, which nearly guarantees a good-quality result straight out of the camera. 

I think there is almost no chance that a relative beginner will be able to do a better job than a properly set up in-camera jpeg.

Fwiw I made a full-time living in photography for upwards of 40 years, with the majority of it in large lab work, primarily portraits. If there were color problems of an unusual nature, I, or my department, would be where they ultimately got solved. Anyway, my recommendation is based on real-world experience. 

 

[JDMvW]

In my digital work, I save a RAW file and a small jpg. The latter can be posted easily on line. and the former is the "negative" that can be edited, pummeled, and beaten into submission à la Ansel Adams.....

An older version of Photoshop (say, v. 5 or 6), if you can find one, is plenty good for starting and has no updates or rental fees. There are a number of 'free' photoeditors that  can be downloaded, but they typically have steep learning curves, and you're mostly on your own.

[Tony Parsons]

When you start, you will undoubtedly make what are known as 'mistakes' - we all do.

 

As you progress, these will become known as 'learning experiences'.

 

 

[samstevens]

In terms of the way I approach photography, there is no such thing as “getting it right” whether in camera or with post processing. There’s getting what I want and not getting what I want and there are many different ways to get to each. There’s also much territory in between getting what I want and getting what I don’t want, with room for accidents, surprises, serendipity, and the rest of multi-layered life.

On more than rare occasions, it's turned out that what I thought I wanted or what I thought might be "right" wasn't so right after all ... and by keeping an open mind through the process of making a photo, I discovered something I hadn't thought of yet.

Edited November 21, 2022 by samstevens

[hjoseph7]

19 hours ago, Jennifer Johnson said:

Hello! I am in a beginner photography class where we are using 50mm cameras with black and white film. As of now we are developing the film in the darkroom as well. I am looking forward to getting a color (digital) camera but would still like to use what I was taught and bracket my pictures, etc.  What do you think would be beneficial to know in doing this, as a beginner in photography?

Thanks in advance!

Actually before I swiched to digital, I purchased a relatively cheap point and shoot digital camera. I'm not sure if this made the transition any easier since the point and shoot camera did not have any of the familiar  controls such as Aperture/Shutter speed, but it did have ISO, plus a pletora of slick functions that my  manual B&W camera did not have.

I aready had some experience with AF film cameras, so switching to a digital camera that did not have a film advance crank came pretty easy. One thing I noticed pretty early about digital cameras was that the latitude of the sensor was way narrower than that of film. You really had to nail your exposure to avoid blown out skies, or dumpy looking shadows.

Another thing I had to get used to was the workflow. With B&W the main objective was to make a Print, whether in the darkroom, or the drugstore. Not so with digital. There is software available out there that lets you download your image to your computers and send them to whoever you want with minor edits. You could view your pictures before deciding to put more work into them, something that was virtually impossible with B&W negatives. One minor, but aggravating problem for me was that of storage of the images. After a while the hardrive on my computer would get full, or the amount of images on there would slow my computer down to a crawl. These days, computers come with a lot more memory so that should be the least of your problems. Nevertheless, its something to think about.

Oh I forgot to mention, Editing. Like I said before with B&W you had either had to go into the darkroom, or send your pictures out. Editing did not require much, mostly doging, burning, cropping and maybe blowing the dust off your negative if needing to. With Digital, you eventually have to purchase a Digital Editing Sofware package and learn how to use it ! Some Digital Software packages have  steeper learning curves than others.

The good thing aout digital is there is no more guessing ! You can always Chimp (look at the piture taken on the back LCD) and if you don't like it, then take it again. No more running out of film in the middle of an event. No more shutting down when the sun goes down because the ISO of your film is not rated high enough. No more shooting an entire event with no film in the camera. No more ruining entire rolls of film, because you screwed up in the darkroom. No more complicated measurements and storing of toxic chemicals.  There are a lot of advantages when it comes to digital. Practically every trick that you can do in the traditional darkroom, you can do in the digital darkroom. The pictures look better, cleaner for the most part. You really can't go wrong with Digital !! 

That reminds me,  I have a couple of rolls of film I need to develop in my darkroom today. I just finished purchasing some stainless steel trays, that I hope will keep the temperature of the chemicals a little more stable.  

 

     

Edited November 21, 2022 by hjoseph7

[Jennifer Johnson]

14 hours ago, httpwww.photo.netbarry said:

Processing digital images will be different, but the darkroom printing you will do will also apply in terms of thinking through a print, ie contrast exposure, even dodging/burning concepts have digital equivalents, and of course there is more, much more to learn in both film and digital post processing.  

This is exactly what I was hoping the class would teach me, the foundations needed to take photography to another level once I switch over. I love dodging and burning, so I suppose I will have to learn how to apply that in digital form. Is this just with software programs that help process or manipulate pictures?

[Jennifer Johnson]

14 hours ago, Bill C said:

Hi, do you have a digital camera yet?

Regardless, here's how I'd suggest to start. Let the camera do the work via its built-in jpeg capability. With this you need to have two things pretty close - they are the exposure, which you probably understand somewhat by now, and something called the "white balance."

Let's cover the difficult one, white balance, first. Most people don't realize how much the color of light(s) varies because our eyes automatically adjust for it. But in photography it falls on you, more or less. Although digital cameras have a built-in automatic "white balance" capability it's not always the best. You can generally improve it, at least somewhat, by manually setting it. When the "white balance" is properly set, white things will look white (as opposed to, say, slightly pinkish, or perhaps yellowish, or some other color). And when the white things are white then other colors will also be right, more or less. So what I am suggesting is that for critical work you MANUALLY set the WHITE BALANCE (your camera manual will describe how to do it).

Is this getting too complicated?

Now for the exposure... you probably know how to meter exposure for your film camera. The same sort of method will work for the digital camera. But... the digital camera typically has a more precise method for checking a test exposure. It's called a histogram, and can be displayed on the back of the camera. Check your camera's manual, but typically you display an image on the back of the camera, then press an "info" button, or similar, until the histogram is displayed. It is basically a graph, from left to right, with a bunch of bars.

Here's the trick - if you take a close-up shot of white paper (or gray, or whatever) the histogram will be a single spike (mostly) showing where the exposure is. A spike on the left means "dark," and a spike on the right means "light." If you make manual changes to the exposure this spike will move from side to side. So, you need to know where you want the spike to be. For a gray card it should near the center.  For white paper it should be near, but not quite to the far right.

Sorry if this is getting too complicated. But... if you can follow along you will be able to get well-exposed images, with good color, of set-up scenes.

Finally, let's put it together. Have a friend sit somewhere, with good light, for some photos. Have them hold a piece of white paper while you make a custom white balance for it (per the camera manual).

Next, while they are still holding the white paper, use it to fine tune the exposure. (Use a "manual exposure" mode, per the camera manual, as well as a fixed "ISO speed") Make a test exposure, then look at the histogram. For white paper you want the spike to be close to the right side - somewhere between 3/4 and all the way to the right. Increasing the exposure moves the spike to the right, etc.

Once the white balance and exposure are set you can go ahead and shoot all the photos you want UNDER THE SAME LIGHTING CONDITION. More than likely you are gonna have the best color and exposure in your class.

Caution: immediately after the shooting session I recommend resetting the camera to automatic white balance and auto-exposure. (To make sure that when you have a once-in-a-lifetime chance to photograph a flying saucer landing you'll be ready.)

Best of luck. 

Thanks for taking the time to answer me!! I read about the histogram, and you explain it perfectly. I followed what you were saying for the most part and will investigate the rest!! Now I know I really need to focus on this. I will take all your advice, and hopefully get that flying suacer pic:-)

[Jennifer Johnson]

9 hours ago, mikemorrellNL said:

RAW files are basically just a copy of the (unprocessed) data that the sensor of any digital camera records. A digital sensor replaces the film in a film camera. Even if you don't do anything with the RAW files now, you may at some time wish to revisit them to do some additional post-processing. If not, they're easily deleted!

I love this and I will add this to my presentation along with so many things you have mentioned ! Thank you!!

[Jennifer Johnson]

26 minutes ago, hjoseph7 said:

The good thing is no more guessing ! You can always Chimp (look at the piture taken on the back LCD) and if you don't like it, then take it again. No more running out of film in the middle of an event. No more shooting an entire events with no film in the camera. No more ruining entire rolls, because you screwed up in the darkroom. There are a lot of advantages when it comes to digital. Practically every trick that you can do in the traditional darkroom, you can do in the digital darkroom. The pictures look better, cleaner for the most part. You really can't go wrong with Digital !! 

Thank you for your suggestions, as they will be shared in my presentation:-)

[httpwww.photo.netbarry]

8 hours ago, Jennifer Johnson said:

This is exactly what I was hoping the class would teach me, the foundations needed to take photography to another level once I switch over. I love dodging and burning, so I suppose I will have to learn how to apply that in digital form. Is this just with software programs that help process or manipulate pictures?

Yep, and with a lot more precision and control. If your school has a digital class you might want to consider it, but there a lot of online info as well.  Sometimes the classes can seem to move really slow, but you'll get a decent intro. You can also scan your film images and process them digitally which is how most work with color film.

[rodeo_joe1]

On 11/21/2022 at 4:09 AM, Jennifer Johnson said:

Hello! I am in a beginner photography class where we are using 50mm cameras with black and white film.

Oh dear. I had to check the date of this post to make sure it wasn't from 20 years ago!

Because anyone with a supposed knowledge of learning theory, that thinks needlessly delaying and complicating seeing the result of an action, really shouldn't be teaching. Or they're stuck firmly in the last century.

Using film basically only teaches you how to use film. It teaches you next to nothing about how to get a good picture. Digital will free you from all the hokum of using film and allow you to concentrate on picture making - which is what photography should be all about. Then you'll be able to concentrate on what's in front of the camera, not what's inside it.

Appreciation of light, composition, perspective, anticipation, connection with the subject, etc. Those are the sort of skills that get you a good picture. Not piddling about pushing a length of gelatine-covered plastic into a spiral in the dark and becoming an amateur chemist.

Learn photography (literally drawing with light) first. Then move on to using film.... If you must! 

Edited November 22, 2022 by rodeo_joe1

[mikemorrellNL]

12 hours ago, Jennifer Johnson said:

This is exactly what I was hoping the class would teach me, the foundations needed to take photography to another level once I switch over. I love dodging and burning, so I suppose I will have to learn how to apply that in digital form. Is this just with software programs that help process or manipulate pictures?

Yes, at some stage it's worth learning about how (in most post-processing programs) you can apply edits like dodging and burning. Most programs have digitally equivalent 'dodge and burn' tools which you can easily apply. As you learn more about digital post-processing, you'll probably discover more flexible ways of achieving the same results.

I'm not sure what you want to cover in your presentation. If you want to include something about the basics of digital post-processing (as opposed to a traditional darkroom), then I think that this 18 min. video might be helpful. It covers the basics of working with 'layers and masks' in post-processing. If you choose to watch it, don't worry about about all the different menus, tools and buttons. It's based on Photoshop but many other (free or much cheaper!) programs have very similar 'layer and mask' features. 

[Rick Helmke]

You’ve gotten a lot of good information here and sometimes that’s the problem, information overload. You will find yourself thinking too much and not actually doing something. I’ll have to disagree with Rodeo Joe on nearly every point but I usually do. Film is older and different technology but the principles are the same in digital and film. I recommend that you learn to expose manually and leave all the auto functions alone. Find an ISO and stay with it for now. I use 400 ISO on a b&w film like HP-5. Learn how to expose properly in different light situations such as bright sun, bright clouds and in dimmer light such as darker clouds. Learn what changes can be caused by different f/stops and shutter speeds. You won’t learn it all in a single roll of film or a couple of weeks shooting. After a while you’ll simply know that the light meter is a little off in a situation and you’ll know why and you won’t be thinking about it, you just see it. It’s like driving, after a while you don’t think about it, you simply drive. As for darkroom technique such as dodging and burning, it’s something you use your hands to do while digitally you use a mouse or keyboard and something like photoshop to do the same thing. You can spend years learning and creating and never know it all but that helps keep it interesting. Enjoy.

 

Rick H

[Jennifer Johnson]

4 minutes ago, Rick Helmke said:

You’ve gotten a lot of good information here and sometimes that’s the problem, information overload. You will find yourself thinking too much and not actually doing something. I’ll have to disagree with Rodeo Joe on nearly every point but I usually do. Film is older and different technology but the principles are the same in digital and film. I recommend that you learn to expose manually and leave all the auto functions alone. Find an ISO and stay with it for now. I use 400 ISO on a b&w film like HP-5. Learn how to expose properly in different light situations such as bright sun, bright clouds and in dimmer light such as darker clouds. Learn what changes can be caused by different f/stops and shutter speeds. You won’t learn it all in a single roll of film or a couple of weeks shooting. After a while you’ll simply know that the light meter is a little off in a situation and you’ll know why and you won’t be thinking about it, you just see it. It’s like driving, after a while you don’t think about it, you simply drive. As for darkroom technique such as dodging and burning, it’s something you use your hands to do while digitally you use a mouse or keyboard and something like photoshop to do the same thing. You can spend years learning and creating and never know it all but that helps keep it interesting. Enjoy.

 

Rick H

Thanks so much for your response. I am compiling all this good information into a power point for my photography class, so Ive been making a lot of bullet points. Advise has made me dive deeper to understand concepts. We are working with 400 ISO right now, and I know everyone has an interest in continuing to better ourselves as much as possible. We have certain projects we need to do with a certain number of prints due every two weeks. You start to learn from your mistakes quickly. I like your analogy of driving, eventually I get there. Thanks so much!