Kindermann stainless steel reel

[hjoseph7]

Does the Kindermann 35mm stainless steel reels require a Kindermann tank ? I'm teaching Photography to some kids at an after-school program in my area and would like to demonstrate to them how we use to load old-fashioned film reels. Unfortunately, I'm lousy at it, so I purchased a Kindermann film loader from eBay(sans-reel). I got a couple of stainless steel tanks at home, but not sure if the Kindermann reels will fit inside them ?

Edited November 12, 2022 by hjoseph7

[Tony Rowlett]

I've got both Kindermann and Nikor tanks, and each of my reels fit both perfectly. I can't distinguish the two types of reels I have, but my favorites are the ones with the little nubs that fit the sproket holes, and the others have the spring loaded clip thing. All fit all.

[Tony Rowlett]

I don't know about any film loader, but I definitely recommend teaching the old fashioned method of loading film in the dark. It's a rite of passage. 

[Sandy Vongries]

A trick from the old days you might like to try.  Either with the loader or bare hands I would roll the reel along a rubber mat while feeding the film on to it.  

[AJG]

The reels will fit, but I never got along very well with the various loading devices that I have seen. Since you will be showing them in daylight how to do this it shouldn't be too hard to do.  Kinderman tanks are excellent--they are the only ones I have used for the last 30 years and they still look and perform like new--no leaks when agitating! I didn't like their reels even though they were well made.  I always seemed to prick my finger on the spring with the point on it when I loaded them so I moved them along years ago.  The currently available Hewes reels are what I have used for the last 25 years.  If you don't drop them on concrete they should last longer than film production is likely to continue.

[hjoseph7]

The Kindermann reels I'm talking about have some plastic tube in the middle so that the arm of the film-loader will fit inside(see attached). They also have a protruding ridge which is used to spin the reel while the film is inside the film holder. This protruding ridge is what I'm worried about ? 

[AJG]

The Kinderman reels that I had didn't have the plastic center that you're showing, but they did have the protruding piece of wire that yours has.  They stacked on top of each other in generic stainless steel tanks that I had at the time and fit just like my other generic reels.   

[JDMvW]

They say that there are many motor habits that, once acquired, are never really lost.

For me, loading metal reels is NOT one of those. I have to relearn it every single time I try it.....

As a result I keep trying-

They all have their little problems, though..

[Jane Gnass]

That's the reel deal in photography! 

[Gary Naka]

On 11/10/2022 at 1:28 PM, JDMvW said:

They say that there are many motor habits that, once acquired, are never really lost.

For me, loading metal reels is NOT one of those. I have to relearn it every single time I try it.....

As a result I keep trying-

They all have their little problems, though..

 

I was the weird guy in class who used the stainless steel reel and tank.
To me, loading the SS reel was easier than the plastic reel.

Even my first time loading a "test" 120 roll went fine.

But, as I tell others, "use what works for YOU."

[glen_h]

Visiting my grandfather when I was 10, he told me about the Nikor reel.

There is a loading aid that curls the film just the right amount. 

 

He told me that it was useful the first few times, but then you learn

how to hold the film without it. 

 

Not much later, I inherited much of his darkroom equipment,

including that tank. And yes, I quickly learned to do 

without it.  I still have the tank (over 50 years later),

but not the loading aid.

 

A few years ago, I got a Nikor 116 tank, I believe unused, and

including the loading aid.  But I didn't use it.

 

I don't have any reels with the little tab sticking up. 

Tanks have different height, but I believe it will fit in the

usual single reel tank.  Otherwise, use a 120 tank that

also works with two 35mm reels.

 

 

 

[Gary Naka]

On 11/10/2022 at 10:58 AM, hjoseph7 said:

Does the Kindermann 35mm stainless steel reels require a Kindermann tank ? I'm teaching Photography to some kids at an after-school program in my area and would like to demonstrate to them how we use to load old-fashioned film reels. Unfortunately, I'm lousy at it, so I purchased a Kindermann film loader from eBay(sans-reel). I got a couple of stainless steel tanks at home, but not sure if the Kindermann reels will fit inside them ?

If you have the reel and tanks, why don't you just see if the reels will fit into the tank?

The problem that I think you will have it the bent wire that sticks up.
That may prevent a Nikkor tank from closing properly.
What you can try is to put the bottom reel with the wire UP, and the top reel with the wire DOWN.

About loading SS reels.

I was taught to load by hand, no loading device.
It was like learning to drive a stick shift car.  Difficult to learn, but easy once you know how.
When I started, I don't know anyone who used any of the loading devices.

For reels with a clip in the center, I NEVER use the clips.  The reason is, you HAVE TO put the film in PERFECTLY centered.  If the film is a little to the side, the clip will hold the film off-centered, and the film WILL kink as you load it.  And once you kink the film, it is VERY HARD to load onto the reel.  After MANY failures with the clip, I use the reels with clip, just like the older reels WITHOUT clip.  I do NOT use the clip.  Just stick the end of the film into the center and start winding.

The Hewes reel grab the 35mm film by the sprockets, so the film won't be off-centered.  I think it is probably the easiest of the SS reels for a beginner to use.

BTW, if a SS reel has been dropped onto the floor, it may be bent/distorted. 
Once bent, those reels can be very difficult to unbend and a PITA to load afterwards.

BTW2, the finish of the reels makes a difference. 
The old Nikkor reels have a nice smooth finish.  Loading the film is easy. 
Some of the "cheap" reels had/have a satin finish, and the film does not load as smoothly and easily.

[hjoseph7]

7 hours ago, Gary Naka said:

If you have the reel and tanks, why don't you just see if the reels will fit into the tank?

The problem that I think you will have it the bent wire that sticks up.
That may prevent a Nikkor tank from closing properly.
What you can try is to put the bottom reel with the wire UP, and the top reel with the wire DOWN.

About loading SS reels.

I was taught to load by hand, no loading device.
It was like learning to drive a stick shift car.  Difficult to learn, but easy once you know how.
When I started, I don't know anyone who used any of the loading devices.

For reels with a clip in the center, I NEVER use the clips.  The reason is, you HAVE TO put the film in PERFECTLY centered.  If the film is a little to the side, the clip will hold the film off-centered, and the film WILL kink as you load it.  And once you kink the film, it is VERY HARD to load onto the reel.  After MANY failures with the clip, I use the reels with clip, just like the older reels WITHOUT clip.  I do NOT use the clip.  Just stick the end of the film into the center and start winding.

The Hewes reel grab the 35mm film by the sprockets, so the film won't be off-centered.  I think it is probably the easiest of the SS reels for a beginner to use.

BTW, if a SS reel has been dropped onto the floor, it may be bent/distorted. 
Once bent, those reels can be very difficult to unbend and a PITA to load afterwards.

BTW2, the finish of the reels makes a difference. 
The old Nikkor reels have a nice smooth finish.  Loading the film is easy. 
Some of the "cheap" reels had/have a satin finish, and the film does not load as smoothly and easily.

I received the reel last week and it fits fine in one of my no-name-brand  stainless steel tanks.  The Kinderman reel is a little narrower than the reel that came with the tank, so it fits fine. I thought I might have to buy another tank. I also loaded the reel with the Kinderman reel-loader. It made things a little easier, but not by much. 

[Gary Naka]

20 minutes ago, hjoseph7 said:

I received the reel last week and it fits fine in one of my no-name-brand  stainless steel tanks.  The Kinderman reel is a little narrower than the reel that came with the tank, so it fits fine. I thought I might have to buy another tank. I also loaded the reel with the Kinderman reel-loader. It made things a little easier, but not by much. 

That is probably why most of people that I knew, did not use the various loaders.

One thing you lose with the loader is the "feel" of the film as it is loading. 
With my fingers on the film, I can feel when the film is not loading properly.  Before the film gets all kinked.

[rodeo_joe1]

On 11/10/2022 at 8:30 PM, hjoseph7 said:

They also have a protruding ridge which is used to spin the reel while the film is inside the film holder.

Why? And how does that work? 

Presumably it needs a special tank. 

Some designers just can't leave things simple and straightforward. 

Like - let's fit a sharp springy thing in the centre of the reel to spike your fingers in the dark; that's a really bright idea!

What? Two prongs to catch the sprocket holes? Far too simple and foolproof! 

 

[Gary Naka]

3 hours ago, rodeo_joe1 said:

Why? And how does that work? 

Presumably it needs a special tank. 

Some designers just can't leave things simple and straightforward. 

Like - let's fit a sharp springy thing in the centre of the reel to spike your fingers in the dark; that's a really bright idea!

What? Two prongs to catch the sprocket holes? Far too simple and foolproof! 

 

That is the marketing gimick to sell stuff.

[glen_h]

On 12/7/2022 at 8:35 PM, Gary Naka said:

That is probably why most of people that I knew, did not use the various loaders.

One thing you lose with the loader is the "feel" of the film as it is loading. 
With my fingers on the film, I can feel when the film is not loading properly.  Before the film gets all kinked.

The only loader I knew is a curved piece of metal that puts the right curl on the film.

As my grandfather told me, for about the first three rolls, I used it. 

And it does help you get the right curl.

But after that, yes, not using it gives better feel as the film is loading.

 

 

[Dustin McAmera]

Drifting off topic, I have a sheet film tank (the Combi-Plan one) with a frame to hold six sheets, that came with a 'guide' attachment which is supposed to help you load the film. I have never used it because it seems to just pass the difficulty up the line. Instead of having to find the right slot in the frame in the dark, now you have to find the right slot in the guide, in the dark, and also avoid dislodging the guide from the frame. I admit I haven't given it the chance to prove me wrong - it might be a great help - but it seemed to me that having one less object in the black bag was going to help more.  I like the tank.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Dustin McAmera

[rodeo_joe1]

46 minutes ago, Dustin McAmera said:

Drifting off topic, I have a sheet film tank (the Combi-Plan one) with a frame to hold six sheets, that came with a 'guide' attachment which is supposed to help you load the film. I have never used it because it seems to just pass the difficulty up the line. Instead of having to find the right slot in the frame in the dark, now you have to find the right slot in the guide, in the dark, and also avoid dislodging the guide from the frame. I admit I haven't given it the chance to prove me wrong - it might be a great help - but it seemed to me that having one less object in the black bag was going to help more.  I like the tank.

 

 

Sounds similar to the magnificently large and complicated loading contraption made for Jobo's 5x4 semi-spiral reel. By the time you've fitted the reel to the loader and aligned the slots with the spring-load guide, you could easily have fed sheets of film into all 6 slots totally unaided. 

[AJG]

2 hours ago, rodeo_joe1 said:

Sounds similar to the magnificently large and complicated loading contraption made for Jobo's 5x4 semi-spiral reel. By the time you've fitted the reel to the loader and aligned the slots with the spring-load guide, you could easily have fed sheets of film into all 6 slots totally unaided. 

Having successfully loaded and processed more than 5000 sheets of 4x5 B&W sheet film with my Jobo tank and reels I would have to disagree.  I found the loader easy to use and helpful.  I would agree with Dustin McAmera's comment about the Gepe tank and loader--I used one briefly and didn't like it much both for loading and the fact that chemistry took forever to pour in and out.  Mine also leaked a lot when I agitated by inversion.

[rodeo_joe1]

2 hours ago, AJG said:

Having successfully loaded and processed more than 5000 sheets of 4x5 B&W sheet film with my Jobo tank and reels I would have to disagree.

Thing is, that Jobo's loader doesn't even fit in my current changing bag comfortably, and I have no difficulty whatsoever slipping sheets of film unaided into the fairly widely-spaced slots of the Jobo 2509 or 2509N sheet film reels.

The 5x4 loader came with a job lot of used Jobo reels, etc. and I've only ever played with it in the light. I've never felt the need to use it for real (Sorry!). 

[AJG]

1 hour ago, rodeo_joe1 said:

Thing is, that Jobo's loader doesn't even fit in my current changing bag comfortably, and I have no difficulty whatsoever slipping sheets of film unaided into the fairly widely-spaced slots of the Jobo 2509 or 2509N sheet film reels.

The 5x4 loader came with a job lot of used Jobo reels, etc. and I've only ever played with it in the light. I've never felt the need to use it for real (Sorry!). 

I've always loaded my Jobo tank in a darkroom with a decent sized counter but I can see how the large tank, 2 reels and the loader along with some sheet film holders could get crowded in a changing bag.