More 510 Pyro Questions.

[Beestonite]

Hi to all, I am completely  new to film photography  and to the darkroom . At the moment  I have  just loaded  2 35mm  rolls into 2 different  bodies.  One Ben iford hp5 and the other been the new fuji acros 2. I intended to shoot  both at box speed  400 and 100 respectively.  The developer  I have bought  is the 510 pyro.  So I would  appreciate  advise on development  methods  for both  these films times and agitation  etc. When I do get the darkroom  running  I intend to use  ilford  multigrade  vc papers.  That's  once I have figured out  the enlarger  and colour head. This is a durst da900  with a durst cls  201 colour head.  This is a dirohic  colour head that only has A YMC  of 0 to 60. I am struggling  to find the correct  Yellow  and Magenta  settings. For these papers.  If anyone  could  offer me any help with this,  I would be  really grateful 

[rcrivoliophotography]

The ilford papers come with a fact sheet that help with converting the color filters to contrast filters based on the enlarger type you are using. Reference and then adjust for feel.

Digitaltruth.com offers a mass dev chart that will give you a good starting point for development times. For agitation, I'd reference the ilford fact sheets. They will give you a good starting point.

[808 Photog]

Thanks for posting.... I was not aware of anyone making 510-Pyro for the market.  I first started with 510 when Jay started posting his work. I recommend you dive into his postings if they are available. 510 will produce stunning images but it must be "tweaked" to get the ultimate negative.

My last mix was in 2019 and I still have a small bottle I use once a year to see what the shelf life will be. So far, so good.

I have posted my mix formulation which I believe is from Jay's work. I use 250 / 80 / 40 asa settings for the common films on the market. Also note MY mix volume and time for MY work. This is were you have to "tweak" your 510-Pyro results.

Have fun, 510-Pyro will give you some super neg's.   Aloha, Bill

[808 Photog]

Here is what 510-Pyro gives you.  Yashica Mat EM, FP-4 @ 80asa, 510-Pyro & V600 scan.    Aloha,  Bill

[john_stockdale2]

It can take a bit of trial and error to dial in the exposure index and developing time.  I suggest that you take a couple of frames with a bit more exposure (say +1 stop, and maybe a bit more) to see if you prefer that.  I does depend on how you do your exposure metering.  I notice that in Bill's post above, he uses 1+150 not 1+100.   Given a longer development time, that can improve shadow detail.   My experience with this developer is that generous exposure is called for.

[Chris Autio]

Be sure to use distilled water when making the pyro. I really like pyro, and some enthusiasts use it exclusively. 

[rodeo_joe1]

Just curious. Has anyone tried that formulation without the pyro? Because Phenidone and Ascorbate form a superadditive pair, and 0.25gm of Phenidone plus 5gms of Ascorbate make a pretty potent developer on their own. So if there's no super-additivity with the Ascorbate, then the Pyro may actually play little part in the action - or maybe the Phenidone doesn't contribute much? 

As I say, just curious.

Edited November 8, 2022 by rodeo_joe1

[808 Photog]

I believe your assumption was proven as Correct by me in the early days of my 510-Pyro adventure. I botched my 2nd mix, omitting the Pyro addition. First film roll from that mix had decent density but lacked the dark stain effect. Scans were acceptable but a bit on the grainy side.

I am not the chemist like you Joe, so I believe the Pyro is along for the ride in Jay's creation just for the stain. I currently mix the PyroCat HD formulas because sourcing the TEA of the 510-Pyro gets a bit on the difficult side over here in Hawaii. Postal rates for shipping the TEA are not a help either, since no one carries it here in the Islands. Propylene Glycol is available at several craft shops in the area as it is used in craft soap making. Picture is from an Isolette 3 & HP-5 neg in 510-Pyro.

 Aloha,  Bill

[rodeo_joe1]

23 hours ago, 808 Photog said:

I believe your assumption was proven as Correct by me in the early days of my 510-Pyro adventure. I botched my 2nd mix, omitting the Pyro addition. First film roll from that mix had decent density but lacked the dark stain effect. Scans were acceptable but a bit on the grainy side.

Thanks for that Bill. I suspect the Pyro stain diffuses out from development sites and obscures the grain somewhat. I also suspect that results from 510-Pyro aren't too dissimilar to what you get with a chromogenic film in C-41.

Nice picture BTW. I was going to ask if you used a pola filter, but I see from a closer look at the tiny writing that you used a 25a.

[808 Photog]

All my camera kits for b/w film have a 25A or G filter in them . . .  Never know when you might need one !   Aloha,  Bill

[ajkocu]

Fascinating thread. I thought my b/w film scans (Epson V700) from pyro developed negatives showed less grain. I forgot what pyro developer I used. I think I bought it from a mail order company.

[808 Photog]

FYI: Seems the pyro staining developers are "hot" again. CatLabs now sells the 510-Pyro by Jay Defehr.  Hutchings PMK-Pyro is available from Photographers Formulary as well as the Sandy King PyroCat Mixes. The latter in dry kits or in glycol. Several other long running pyro's are also available at Formulary. The dry kits will save you mailing fees, but all the dry mixes can be prepped using polypropene glycol in place of the DI water. A much longer shelf life can be achieved with the glycol mix.

The pyro staining developers are a different animal and will require you to pay attention to your developing technique until a "normal" is found. After that, it's "mo betta" as we say in the Islands.   Aloha,    Bill

[ajkocu]

I was using PMK. I'm glad it's hot again! This was from the mid '90's in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. Mamiya 7; either Tri-X or T-max 400.

[808 Photog]

Perhaps I grumbled too soon. I just looked up on Amazon's web site and they are listing 99% pure Triethanolamine (TEA) in 8.4 fl oz / 250ml and 1 quart / 950ml at $17.99 & $37.  If their "free delivery" applies to you, that's a deal for DIY mixing.   Aloha,  Bill