Watch out for the kiddies...

[PapaTango]

This thread reminded me of a recent experience:

The last few times I was about and taking photos of interesting children things, I have been accosted by angry parents.  The last one was an assembly of kids on bikes, scooters, and skates.  Some great content.  Then mama 'Karen' started yelling at me from across the street.  See, the thing of it was that I was on my front porch, and the kids were coming down the sidewalk on the opposite side of the road.

Now this is all "public" space.  Well settled law states that there are no rights or expectation of privacy in public spaces.  I had to explain that to the cops who showed up at my door 5 minutes later.  This was a surprise, because one can't get them here in that time if there was an emergency...

I showed them what I had, and told them it's too bad that 'Karen' didn't like it.  They went away.

Has anyone else had to deal with this sort of oversight recently?

Edited October 12, 2022 by PapaTango
Space aliens made me do it

[samstevens]

I’ve been generally avoiding taking pics of other people’s children. While I appreciate the legality of doing so, I’m also mindful of present-day sensitivities, which have some justification especially among concerned parents. It’s changed my street shooting somewhat as I’m aware of a more paranoid public these days, a paranoia which is there for a variety of reasons, real and imagined. It is what it is. Times change and how I react (changing my shooting habits) can be as much of a challenge and reward as insisting on doing what I’m legally allowed to do. It’s not a universal rule for me to avoid pics of people. But, I pick my moments more significantly and more rarely than I used to. I don’t necessarily like it but I learned a long time ago to pick my battles. Given the dangers children face these days, I don’t consider it a harsh compromise to adjust my actions when kids are out in public in order to provide them and their parents an added degree of support and security. 
 

I also don’t label women “karens.” I find it degrading. And I’ve seen fathers express anger over pics as well as mothers yet the reaction is rarely to call them “kens”.

[PapaTango]

11 minutes ago, samstevens said:

I also don’t label women “karens.” I find it degrading. And I’ve seen fathers express anger over pics as well as mothers yet the reaction is rarely to call them “kens”.

Good for you.  Here in NYS, we call angry men who get up in your face and threaten you with their rights "woodchucks."  Nor do they call the police and then proceed to argue with them.  They just threaten to rain fists on one's head...

I woke up this morning, but I am hardly woke in the context of the minefield of trigger nonsense that passes for civil society these days.  

[roachyy_]

I'd feel weird taking pictures of a kid that wasn't mine or from someone I know. There are quite a few hills to die on in the field of photography & I'm not going to die on the one that says "Taking pictures of strangers is legally protected & there's nothing you can do about it".

[Robin Smith]

Not with the children or cops, but I've had adults complaining that I should contact "their agent" if I want to take a picture of them. It's infrequent, and usually from someone who is actively trying to get noticed in a public space anyway.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Robin Smith

[Rick Helmke]

Some years back I was photographing my nephews baseball game. Digital was just coming in and I had a film Nikon. I was literally only taking a few shots of my nephew when some overgrown idiot decided to take exception to my activity. He started getting in my face wanting to know what I thought I was doing. I told him why I was there and pointed out who I was photographing. He got more belligerent, loud and insulting and my temper was starting to boil. About the time I was ready to feed him an F4s in one bite a police officer walked up and put a stop to it. I watched the rest of the game and went home. I understand there are some people with questionable motives but I’ll not apologize for taking family photos in public nor for shooting  news photos in a breaking news situation when it was literally my job.

 

Rick H.

[samstevens]

You certainly had nothing to apologize for. When strangers in public are looking for a fight, unless they’ve got me cornered and are already physically assaulting me, there’s usually a choice of engaging or walking away. Each of us has to assess such a situation, the relative danger and importance of what we’re doing, and hopefully make a reasonable choice of how to respond. I can’t imagine too many situations in which I’d choose to respond physically to someone stopping me from taking a picture. Then again, I’m not much for physical fighting and I’m not a photojournalist. I’m definitely not the hero type and rarely assert myself in physically precarious situations. Luckily, I’m quite tall, so sometimes my height, deceivingly, does the asserting for me. 

[PapaTango]

The first time I had someone create a scene was 11 years ago now.  My grandson and I had gone to the water fountain in Knoxville, TN--a place set up for kids to have fun.  No sooner than I had taken a couple shots than two completely unrelated adults swarmed in on me.  It was quickly settled, but was an interesting situation.  

These days when photographing events such as fairs, carnivals, or outdoor music venues--I try to make eye contact with the parents first before popping a shot.  A nametag and how I move about solves a lot of conflict.

It is indeed a minefield these days... ☹️

Here is a photo from that circumstance.  My grandson is the middle figure.  Anything creepy or of concern here?

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by PapaTango

[samstevens]

18 minutes ago, PapaTango said:

I try to make eye contact with the parents first before popping a shot.

Good practice.

18 minutes ago, PapaTango said:

Anything creepy or of concern here?

No. The concern of parents is sometimes rational and sometimes irrational. What parents, in the moment, don't have is the benefit of seeing the photo you took or have in mind. They are in the dark, and stories of Internet abuse and potential stalking become understandably heightened in their desire to protect their children. In instances where I'm out on the street shooting, I maintain an awareness that I know a lot more about my motivations and the photos I'm going to produce than strangers who may be watching me. Since we live in less benign times than we used to and since the Internet and social media, in some ways, haunt the daily lives of a lot of folks out there, kids appearing in public displays in contexts over which parents have no control is more and more frowned upon.

[PapaTango]

I suppose that one of the things I must contend with is looking like a creepy, bearded old man.  In a random and uncontextualized venue, it does not instill confidence over motives.  My memory is jogged over Ian Anderson's old friend, Aqualung...

 

[PapaTango]

Well, my wife and I were just thrown out of a Mexican restaurant over taking photos of the wait staff.  Nothing to do with kiddies.  This photo was the volcano:

 

[paddler4]

Many parents are leery of their kids' photos being posted on the web. I would respect that. 

[httpwww.photo.netbarry]

I've been fairly lucky. I have had 2 instances where  people were pissed I took their pics.  One was an emigre from the eastern block at the time who thought I was KBG and threatened to cal the cops if I didn't give her my film. I handed her my phone and invited her to use it. Sorry ma'am.  Other was a women and she just called me crazy but that was it. There was 1 time when I was taking a documentary class and we had to find and photograph things happening around town.  I passed by a local bar where cops were questioning and searching two women with a crowd watching outside their so I pulled in, parked and with an old FE2 took a pic from the outside of the car and one of the officers heard the camera and turned around and walked me over to my car, looked at my license and  asked him if I had done anything illegal and he replied that he wasn't sure but it made mw nervous.  As the firm I worked for actually represented  the officers in his department, I apologized and requested when he had a chance to discuss it with his watch commander because he really wasn't sure about people photographing police and I was positive that as long as one wasn't interfering with the investigation, there of course is every right to photograph police.  This was before digital was popular.

[Tony Parsons]

Not being one to photograph people in any case (I see far too many of them to require permanent reminders), should any children inadvertently appear in my images (say when taking photos at a Heritage Railway line), they are never the intended subject and usually so peripheral they can be dropped out in PP. Only deliberate photos of kids I have ever taken were some of mine, and their mothers were given the slides and negs anyway. I'm waiting for the day when some IFBB decides that photographing young animals and birds offends their sensibilities.

 

 

(IFBB = interfering busybody).

 

[bgelfand]

On 10/21/2022 at 5:20 PM, PapaTango said:

Well, my wife and I were just thrown out of a Mexican restaurant over taking photos of the wait staff.  Nothing to do with kiddies.  This photo was the volcano:

 

A restaurant is not a public space. It is private property as are theatres, and concert halls. They may restrict photography, recording and the such, and if you refuse to comply, they may order you to leave.

[bgelfand]

The one time I was admonished not to take pictures. I complied, ...sort of😃