Exposing Ilford Pan F Plus

[jason_withers]

<p>Hi,<br>

I recently got back from the processor a roll of Ilford Pan F Plus film in 120 size and was disappointed by the lack of sharpness in the photos/negatives (my own fault I believe). I used the Sunny 16 rule and set to a shutter speed that most approximated the speed of film (50 asa, 1/50 second shutter speed). I thought that I could hand hold the camera (Kodak Reflex II) at 1/50, but apparently I cannot. Most of the photos I took were during bright afternoon sun, with a yellow filter, approximately f/16 or f/8.<br>

Is the general consensus that you should not hand hold the camera if you are using a shutter speed that is less than the focal length of the lens? My camera has an 80mm lens, so I guess that I should not try to hand hold less than 1/80 second (1/100 on my camera is the next available shutter speed)?<br>

Thoughts?</p>

[jason_withers]

<p>Funny though....the Kodak Reflex II camera manual recommends most exposures at 1/50, based on the Verichrome and Panatomic films available at the time, thought I'm not sure what the films speeds were then.</p>

[SCL]

<p>I can't speak for you, Jason, but I've noticed as the years crept up on me, that hand holding 35mm cameras below 1/50 results in some motion blur. I occasionally still try 1/15 but it is iffy. When I use my 120, I've found that anything below 1/100 guarantees some motion blur. Years ago Erwin Puts, of Leica testing fame, showed in a series of controlled tests, that handholding any camera below 1/500 introduced slight motion blur compared to the same shot on a tripod, even for the steadiest of hands. I generally stick to the rule of not hand holding cameras at a shutter speed on less than 1/focal length of the lens and for 120 bodies I use the formula of 1/2x lens focal length. The other thing I might menrtion is that you used the sunny 16 rule and a yellow filter. Most of my yellow filters (K2) cut the light by approximately 1 f stop - so you might have also gotten slightly underexposed shots..</p>

[jason_withers]

<p>Thanks Stephen, that is helpful to know.. maybe years ago people had steadier hands :) </p>

 

[dave_s]

<p>Depends on a bunch of things, like how much you plan to enlarge, but if I'm handholding 35mm with a normal lens, I aim for 1/250. I'll settle for 1/125 (and 1/60 if I have to, but I don't like it). If you enlarge even to 8 x 10, you'll probably find you lose the razor edge of your sharpness below about 1/250. If I'm shooting Pan F, which I haven't for a couple of years, it's tripodsville. </p>

<p>With any 120 film, I'm nearly always on a support, nowadays often a lightweight monopod for reasons of portability. I figure if I'm going to the trouble and expense of shooting medium format, I want to pull out all the stops for the best negatives I can get. YM, as always, MV.</p>

[jason_withers]

Thanks Dave. Yeah, I think that I will use the tripod going forward. Hopefully my pictures will improve! I want to bring my

camera with me on a trip to the grand canyon, but I am going to change to the tmax 100 to gain a bit of speed over the

Pan F.

[dhbebb]

<p>I have never used this camera, but a brief study of this:<br /> http://www.cameramanuals.org/kodak_pdf/kodak_reflex_ii.pdf<br /> reveals that the shutter is wound by pushing up on a lever in the bottom right-hand corner of the front panel and released by pushing down on the same lever. I have to say that this is ergonomically extremely unsound - disregarding the question whether the lever on this old camera is free of corrosion and is operating smoothly, it is highly desirable in the interests of avoiding camera shake to have a shutter release which requires to be pressed either downwards into the photographer's supporting hands or backwards against the support of the photographer's head. Pressing a lever against fresh air is a guarantee of camera shake.<br>

I would suggest you do another test with the film of ISO 125 or more, shoot some pictures on a tripod and, if hand-holding is important to you, others using an L handle with a built-in cable release. You should find this makes a significant difference.</p>

[christopher_ward2]

<p> I home process my B&W and rate Pan F+ at ISO 32 or ISO 40 without the filter. I increase the exposure 1f to 1.5f for a standard #8 yellow filter. If the Kodak Reflex has not had a CLA the 1/50 sec shutter setting may be dragging and causing blur. With a TLR type camera you should not use a 'death grip' just cradle the camera in your hands, focus, exhale and gently trip the shutter. The Kodak Ektar is a fine Tessar clone and quite good below f/5.6 but a lens shade is really important with these single coated lenses. The focus could also be off. You can set the shutter to B and put Scotch tape across the center of the film gate to get basic image information.</p>

[glen_h]

<p>When I was young, I believed that I could hand hold 1/15 with a 50mm lens on a 35mm camera, using the usual ways to stready myself. If possible, find something to lean against, or even better set the camera on. Hold your breath. Slowly depress the shutter release. That was with a Canon rangefinder, maybe less vibration than an SLR.</p>

<p>When I bought my Nikon FM I bought it with the AI 35/2.0, and usually believed I should be able to hand hold 1/15, and with extra bracing and luck, 1/8.</p>

<p>I haven't thought before how the 1/(focal length) rule changes with image format.</p>

[bernard_lazareff]

<p>Supposedly you shoot MF for improved (over 35mm) image resolution. So, either:</p>

<ol>

<li>You use a film like PanF, because of expected low grain and high resolution. If you aim for better sharpness (or whatever, we're not discussing semantics) than 35mm, the rule governing hand-held shutter speed should be <em>more</em> stringent than for 35mm. This practically dictates the use of a tripod.</li>

<li>You don't want to be bothered by a tripod. Then use a 400 iso film. You won't lose on grain, because it's invisible up to at least 8x10" prints. And you will gain on blur at 1/100 handheld. And you will gain on tonal range, especially useful for outdoors sunny pictures. </li>

</ol>

[chris_waller]

<p>As you say, the rule of thumb is that you shoot at a shutter speed at least equal to the focal length of the lens.</p>

[jason_withers]

<p>Thanks everyone for their response; very helpful information. I've posted a few links below to the pictures from this camera. The actual pictures were much clearer than the scans (I need a much better scanner) so they may not be that helpful. I don't think there was too much problem with the exposure, which leads me to believe that the camera shutter speed is ok at the 1/50 speed. The camera has the Anastar 80mm, which seems to be relatively sharp, although that is not very apparent from my scanned pictures.<br>

I like the idea of the hand held grip, but I don't think it is possible with this type of camera, based on where the shutter release is located and the small hole where you can attach a cable release is awfully close to the chrome trim around the edge of the camera face. <br>

http://i.imgur.com/yixjMHul.jpg[/img]<br>

http://i.imgur.com/3qkgWZyl.jpg[/img]<br>

http://i.imgur.com/AtDdpull.jpg[/img]</p>

[allen_gara]

<p>The pictures looks great, and the exposures seem fine. I'm going to say you need a better scanner in order to judge whether a tripod or the lens is limiting your sharpness (or post-processing work). </p>

[Jochen_S]

<p>The 1/*focal length* sec rule of thumb is for contact copies or 5x5" proofs & online thumbnails. Blown up high resolution images demand more. <br>

I#d stick to 1/300 sec on that camera and maybe switch to some faster film, at least for handholding. Handheld Pan F is for desired shallowest DOF on a brightly lit beach.</p>

[glen_h]

<p>Using the 1/focal length rule you still have to try. If I try harder, stand really still, hold my breath, slowly squeeze the shutter release, I can usually do one stop slower. Brace the camera on something, such as table, tree, or rock, two stops slower. Take a few shots so that I have a better chance.</p>

<p>For actual PanF+, I did some pictures of a friend's wedding (not as an official photographer, just a fried) with it, as it was the only film I had at the time. Well, EI 80 in Diafine. I had the camera braced against a pew as well as I could so it would be as still as possible. I think it was 1/8 s or so with a 35-70 lens. </p>

[dhbebb]

<p><em>Handheld Pan F is for desired shallowest DOF on a brightly lit beach.</em><br>

Historical note: Pan F Plus has an ISO speed of 50 (although most people shoot at 25 or 32 and cut development). When the Kodak Reflex II was made, the film of choice would have been Verichrome Pan, which before the removal of the 2x safety factor from ASA speeds was rated at ASA/ISO 64. Not much difference :-) I can only say again to OP - shoot tests with tripod/L-grip to reduce camera shake before you do anything else!</p>

[garethspics]

<p>Many years ago when I had nothing better to do I did some shutter speed and sharpness tests using resolution targets. My conclusion was that with a 50mm lens I needed to shoot at 1/250 hand held for the best result. There was a slight loss at 1/125 but 1/60 was really noticeable. If you don't want to haul a tripod around a monopod could be a good compromise</p>

[dhbebb]

<p>It is important with regard to camera shake/vibration to make certain distinctions, such as the camera/shutter type. A rangefinder camera has relatively low unbalanced masses (shutter only), an SLR has intrinsically higher unbalanced masses (shutter plus mirror). In both cases, the quality of construction and mechanical condition of the camera in question can be more influential than the type of design - in practical terms, an RF camera with a stiff shutter button can be worse than a well-made SLR (my benchmark here would be a Leica R3). Conversely, old SLRs may develop such high vibration levels that they are unusable - in my case, some 60s Pentaxes, which delivered very disappointing sharpness. The same lenses fitted via an adapter to an LTM body were superbly sharp.<br>

A leaf shutter has potentially no unbalanced masses at all, since it consists of a number of leaves with identical motion arranged symmetrically around the lens. The only factors limiting handheld sharpness (assuming no subject motion) are a poor shutter release action (which can alone lead to a very large loss of sharpness) and photographer-induced vibration/shake. The remedies here are correct technique (inhale, exhale and take the picture immediately at the end of the exhalation, while ensuring that trigger finger motion does not induce motion of any other of the fingers holding the camera) and a simple willingness to acknowledge the passing of the years - older photographers shake more! In short, always use a tripod when you can, otherwise do your best, bearing in mind the factors described above.</p>

[gnashings]

<p>All of these responses are spot on - and definitely to be considered closely. I do know that sometimes necessity dictates the method and as such there is only so much you can do.<br>

However, along with all the sage advice already given, I have also encountered situations where I have an old camera with a rather heavy or rough shutter release - my Yashica Mat is like that, not in any way inherent to the design, just ravages of age and abuse on one particular example - I have taken to using the self timer. Obviously not for action photography, but for stationary subjects or slow moving, predictable ones, you can use it as a work around. On old cameras most self timers tend to be a wind up mechanism and can be engaged only at only a small fraction of its travel, thus giving a very slight delay. Just enough to remove the movement of your "trigger" finger from the equation.<br>

Also, I have used cable releases while hand holding - sometimes the barrel of the button is rough but the part pushed by the cables plunger is not (the Yashica for example could not be "fixed" in such fashion as it uses a Leica style cable that fits over the button and pushes the whole thing, so the benefit of the cable is negligible since the button is so hard to push regardless of the device used to push it.)<br>

Just some ideas that might be helpful in the back corner of your tool box somewhere:)</p>