Is There a Good Alternative To Developing 120 in Daylight Tanks?

[steve_mareno1]

<p>I'm getting good results using my Paterson tank to develop 35mm and 120 film, but dislike the whole shake and bake agitation scheme for some reason. It's more than that actually. I don't like loading the reels either. Stand development probably isn't going to work (I use Tr-X and D76 exclusively, w/ an occasional foray into HP5 and Acufine or Diafine). Any suggestions on good, consistent development alternatives to the tank, if any? I'm much more comfortable on the printing end using trays, but see-sawing rolls of 120 film in a tray sounds worse, by far, than the tank. </p>

[Rick Helmke]

Not to sound flip but it's either the

tank or get someone else to do it.

 

Rick H.

[cj8281]

<p>Look for a Kodak apron tank. No reel.</p>

[johncox]

<p>Some photo labs might be willing to sell you their automated day lab machine for the cost of shipping (seriously). There's also jobo automated developing rigs for around the same price.</p>

<p>I have experimented with microwaved Dektol on a brush for paper developing when using a pinhole camera, the problem was there was too little solution per square inch of film (or paper) I would have needed very strong Dektol which would need a different (lower) temp.</p>

<p>I would assume it would be worse with film and D-76.</p>

[Gary Naka]

<p>You could try another brand of tank/reels and see if they are easier to load and use. <br>

If you don't like tank and reels, your only practical option is to have someone else develop the film for you.<br>

There is a photo shop near where I live that will do that. You bring in your B&W film and they will process it and make a proof sheet for you. Then you can do the enlarging yourself.</p>

[glen_h]

<p>Is it plastic reels that you don't like?</p>

<p>Maybe try stainless steel reels and see if you like them better.</p>

[chris_waller]

<p>Film processing involves loading reels and the 'agitation shake and bake thing' (:)) Loading reels takes practise and personally I find that there is a certain 'zen' in the agitation of the tank. I think you need to find this 'zen' and settle into it. :)</p>

[tim_henrion]

<p>35 years or so ago when I started doing my own B&W, I hated loading 35mm Paterson reels. I got lots of misloads, film getting stuck during loading, etc. I tried every brand of plastic tank/reel on the market (Paterson, Photax, Yankee, Jobo, you name it...) hoping to find something better but everything was pretty much the same from a loading perspective. The Kodak apron tanks were somewhat better but you couldn't really find one that held more than 2 rolls of film at a time.<br>

Over the years I learned tips that made loading those reels easier and more reliable:</p>

<ul>

<li>Make sure the reels are dry before loading. BONE DRY. Use a hair dryer if necessary. Damp reels are the #1 cause of misloads. A single drop of moisture in the film channel of the reel is enough to screw things up as soon as the film hits it.</li>

<li>When loading Paterson reels, try to keep the ball bearing (the ratchet mechanism perpendicular to the ground so that gravity can assist the ratchet mechanism. This isn't so much of an issue with 120.</li>

</ul>

<p>Metal tanks only worked out moderately better for me because they can still misload if you don't attach the film straight/correctly to the core of the reel.<br>

Oddly enough, the most brilliant stroke of genius came about 6 months ago when I started doing my own B&W again after a 20 year hiatus. It turns out that the ways I was taught to process 35mm was working against me. I was taught to use a "can opener" to crack film cans open, unspool the film and then use scissors (in the dark, of course) to cut the film from the spool. What this led to was sharp 90degree corners on the film end that I'd try to then feed onto the film reel. Those sharp corners will eventually get caught somewhere on the reel, forcing a misload.<br>

When I recently re-read the Paterson instructions, it talked about a different mechanism of getting the film out of 35mm film cans:</p>

<ol>

<li>Don't crack the film can open. This is unnecessary.</li>

<li>In daylight (yay!) use a film leader extractor tool to extract the film leader from the can.</li>

<li>Snip the leader off (in daylight with scissors) at the point where the film reaches full width. Make sure that you cut the film BETWEEN the sprocket holes, not through them.</li>

<li>(this is the big one) Using the scissors, ROUND the two corners of the film end.</li>

<li>Put the film/can in the changing bag. You're going to spool it onto the reel directly from the can without cracking the can open.</li>

<li>When you're in the changing bag/darkroom, you feed the film out of the can and spool it directly onto the reel. When spooling onto the reel, you'll need to pull the film out of the can a foot or two at a time. It works like a charm.</li>

</ol>

<p>My misload rate has since gone to ZERO. The same tactic (rounding the film end corners) works with 120 but takes a little practice because you have to do it in the dark. As long as you have rounded film corners and your plastic reels are bone dry, you shouldn't be experiencing any significant challenges loading film onto plastic reels.</p>

 

[john_shriver]

<p>Hewes stainless steel reels. (Or even old Nikor ones for 120.) You need to learn the feel of it, but once you do it's much more sensible than trying to push the film into a plastic spiral.</p>

[vick_ko]

<p>I hate the Paterson reels. I hated them in my teens and hated them 6 months ago when I returned to the darkroom.<br>

The best thing for me is steel reels. I can load them in a flash. <br>

And developing in a daylight tank is great - no standing in the dark. I dread when I go to sheet film. I'm intending to use tanks first.<br>

Maybe to help - <br>

- play music. Headphones or radio, whatever you prefer<br>

- do something in between. I practise kung fu stances - great way to kill 30 seconds before inverting tanks<br>

- relax and enjoy it. There are many worse methods to soup 120.</p>

[walter_degroot]

<p>you have to let the film do it;'s thing not what you want it to do,<br>

several lears ago I loaded and developer both 120 and 35mm after an absenbce of 10-15 lears.<br>

it went well<br>

last month i loaded a roll or 35mm found film<br>

being lazy I clipped the corners. and slid the entire length in the plastic reel.<br>

I was surpriused that it went so well.<br>

I expected to hook it in the center of the reel and cup and gently and carefully wind it on.<br>

It is something you must learn. it is a manual skill.<br>

like opening a can with an old fashioned can opener without opening your fingers <br>

at the same time.. If you depens on someone else it will never be done right.<br>

an expert is entitled to charge you a lot and a lab often does not care enough to do a perfect job/.<br>

a</p>

[steve_mareno1]

<p>Thanks everyone. I might try the stainless reels. The Kodak apron suggestion will also be followed up on. The trouble w/ the reels I have (plastic) is that I THINK everything is loaded right, I seldom have trouble loading them, but there's sometimes a corner that seems to slip out of the spirals and droop onto the frame(s) next to it. The other thing I don't especially like is the inverting thing, as my tank leaks. There's nothing wrong w/ it, it just leaks. I would just rather not deal w/ the tank at all, but since the roll isn't going to just lie flat in a tray, oh well. I may investigate putting the film onto a reel and try developing it in an open bucket of developer. Maybe try swishing it around to agitate. Or I'll try another developer and see how stand or semi stand development works.</p>

<p>One way or another I am going to get away from the tank if I possibly can. On the other end, printing the negs is enjoyable from the enlarger to the finished print, but there's just something about that dang tank and the whole exercise that does not work for me. Even if I got consistent results every time I wouldn't like it. The whole time I'm at the sink doing the inversions I'm constantly thinking "this is 2013. There HAS to be a better way to do this." I'm all for traditional photography, but this is not the right process for me.</p>

[Gary Naka]

<p>OK<br>

Spend the money and get a Jobo processor. But you still have to load the reels.<br>

Then you let the processor rotate the tank, all you do is dump and fill the tank.</p>

[paul_poropat]

<p>I agree with the others as to clipping the sharp corners. Even a slight bevel is easy to do in a changing bag. I have been using this quick and easy modification with my Patterson System 4 tanks for decades. Easy loading is all in the leading edge.</p>

[steve_mareno1]

<p>That's what I have Paul, a System 4 tank. It leaks like a sieve when you invert it. I'll bet the reel-in-a bucket will work. I googled it, and immediately found this somewhat vague-in-places procedure. Maybe a steel reel for easier and more consistent loading, and a bunch of buckets. That sounds like a lot more fun. I'm beginning to like the sound of stand developing too. I can be doing other things while it sits in the chemicals.<br /> http://www.handmadefilm.org/resources/technicalResources/processes/developing/bucketProcessing.html</p>

[photojim]

<p>A good Paterson tank should leak minimally. I don't have major problems with leakage . Are you putting the lids on correctly?<br>

<br />If you find doing single rolls of 120 to be inconvenient, a simple solution is to get one of the big tanks and do multiple rolls at once. That will make you spend less time processing, relatively speaking.<br>

<br />You could also get Jobo tanks and a rotary processor for it, but I find that rotary development adds its own issues.</p>

[hjoseph7]

<p>Once you get used to loading stainless steel reels you will never go back to Paterson reels. However, the learning curve is kind of steep, and you need to practice, practice, practice until you finally get it right.</p>

<p>Samigon reels are about the easiest reels to load on the market as far as I know <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/122989-REG/Samigon_ESA325_Multi_Format_Autofeed_Reel.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/122989-REG/Samigon_ESA325_Multi_Format_Autofeed_Reel.html</a> I use the Samigons with 120 film otherwise I would go nuts trying to load that type of film on Paterson reels.</p>

<p>Another alternative but a rather costly one would be a JOBO ATL-1000 AUTO FILM PROCESSOR <a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOBO-ATL-1000-AUTO-FILM-PROCESSOR-DEVELOPER-ATL1000-/140909540588">http://www.ebay.com/itm/JOBO-ATL-1000-AUTO-FILM-PROCESSOR-DEVELOPER-ATL1000-/140909540588</a><br>

or the ultimate <a href="http://www.phototherm.com/sk8rh.html">http://www.phototherm.com/sk8rh.html</a><br>

<br />but I think you still have to load the reels in the dark.</p>

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[DB_Gallery]

<p>I use a Jobo for my 4x5 and large batches of 120 & 35mm. But for small runs, 2-4 rolls, I just use the Paterson or steel tanks. While I love how easy the Hewes reels load, I am not a fan of how slow the steel tanks take to fill and dump. I find I only have issues with loading Paterson reels with films with a thin base such as Rollei IR and I agree that clipping the corners helps a good bit. I find overall, the Paterson tanks are the best due to very fast dump and fill times and only leak on inversion when the lid is not properly seated. I think the steel tanks leak more. </p>

[john_layton]

<p>A few years back I read a passage by a photographer shooting 120 who'd been having trouble with getting absolutely even exposure for sky values...which he'd then solved by processing his film by hand in a long, open trough - using the leader tape of the film to form a loop of film, with emulsion side inward - which facilitated the agitation process consisting of gently flipping the loop over and over. </p>

<p>I actually have three plastic troughs lying around someplace - which were made just for the above purpose - but have never tried them. </p>

[david_goldenberg1]

<p>At a workshop, I once saw Al Weber demonstrate a method for developing roll film in a tray. As I remember it, he unrolled the film from one hand, sloshed it through the developer as he rolled it up with the other hand, and then repeated the process continuously. The film was kept saturated with developer and the transfers through the tray provided agitation. Since it was a demonstration with the lights on, we didn't get to see the results, but he swore by the method.<br>

Personally, I stick with a stainless steel reel!<br>

David</p>

[rick_smith13]

<p>Could it be that the usual procedure for loading and developing film is popular because it's the easiest way? Think of it as just another skill to be mastered, another of life's little challenges.</p>

[p_elcock]

<p>I have recently returned to film developing and have discovered the AGFA rondinax system to develop my 35 and 120 film. I DON'T NEED A DARKROOM OR BAG! BRILLIANT! One film at a time is the only drawback but uses minimal chemicals. 120ml for 120 film and 200ml for 35mm.</p><div></div>