How to avoid contaminating chemicals

[cleeo_wright]

<p>All,<br>

I'm about to embark on my own B&W fil developing and am acquiring the grear to do so. Can one mix all of the chemicals in the same graduate if a good rinse is done between each mix or should I have separate mixing graduates and stirring rods for each chemical? What has your experience shown?<br>

I am planning on mixing small batches and not storing too much in the way of working solutions.<br>

Thanks in advance.<br>

Cleeo</p>

[peterbcarter]

<p>I'm sure someone may disagree, but I use the same graduate and stirring spoon. I clean and rinse as I go. The plastics may stain, but there has not been an issue to date (since 1975...dated myself).</p>

<p>The reality is my chems do not run out at the same time, so spill over doesn't seam to come into play. I mix directly into the bottles (shaken, not stirred) as much as possible.</p>

<p> </p>

[SCL]

<p>Of course you can use the same graduate...it is done all the time in labs. You need to clean it thoroughly between chemical mixes. Also, it is a good idea to mix the chemicals in the same order as you would use them....that way if your cleaning process isn't as good as it should be, you won't inadvertantly screw up your developer with residue from the fixer you mixed first.</p>

[zensphoto]

<p>I've been using the same plastic graduate of 34 Oz to mix all my chemicals from BW, C-41 and E-6. since 2002. I just make sure I wash it out thoroughly between mixes. Now when I actually do the development I have different glass measuring cups that I got from Target and I wash the film after different steps to keep my chemicals from getting contaminated during developing processes.</p>

[cleeo_wright]

<p>Thank you... When you say wash between, do you mean rinse between or do you use something to wash the containers? Seems like water only would be the safe way as soap or something else might contaminate the chemicals.</p>

[Alan Marcus]

<p>As long as the mixing vessels and stirring rods are nonporous you can use them for each chemical provided they are washed and well rinsed. Most important will be is to avoid contaminating the developer which is an alkaline solution. Best if you start with well washed implements and make the developer first.</p>

<p>If you have any doubts as to the cleanness of the utensils, add a teaspoon of baking soda or ammonia or spent developer to a bowl of water and rinse all utensils in this alkaline bath. Now rinse again with clean water and proceed to mix your developer. This works because the developer solution is alkaline and a residue of alkaline won't do any harm.</p>

<p>Now wash and rinse everything. Now you can proceed to mix the stop bath. The stop and fix are mildly acid. The ingredient that makes them acetic is acetic acid (a variety of vinegar). If you have any doubt that your washing and rinsing is insufficient (not likely), add a few drops of table vinegar to a bowl of water and rinse using this mild acid solution and follow with a clean water rinse. This will certainly guarantee you won't be contaminating any subsequent chemicals.</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>The only container I have that is different for mixing my chemicals is a huge bucket to mix Xtol. All the others get mixed in the same one gallon pitcher I got at a $ store 10 years ago. I just clean it well after I mix a chemical with super hot water and baking soda if I mixed powdered fixer. Most of my other chemicals are liquid so I mix them right in the jug or use them one shot.<br>

If I do mix a powdered developer I just clean with hot water and a little Photo Flo. and rince well Myhot tap water is about 125F.</p>

[bgelfand]

<p>I use the same graduates which I rinse thoroughly between uses.</p>

<p>The only chemical I mix fresh each time is the working solution for the developer. The fix and stop bath working solutions are per-mixed and stored in old (washed clean) screw top soft drink bottles.</p>

<p>My developing procedure is:</p>

<p>1) Load the tank in my changing bag.</p>

<p>2) Mix the appropriate amount of developer working solution. I use DD-X or Rodinal, so the stock solution is right from the bottle.</p>

<p>3) Use the leader which I saved to test the fix. If the leader clears in less than 1 minute (for Ilford Rapid Fix), the fix is good. The stop is indicator stop; if it is yellow, it is good.</p>

<p>4) Pour in the developer and develop for the proper time with the proper agitation.</p>

<p>5) At the end of the develop time, pour the developer down the drain; working solution developer is one shot for me.</p>

<p>6) Pour in the stop from the working solution bottle. At the end of the stop time, pour the stop back in the bottle. If it is still yellow, it is good for another round. If it is purple, discard and mix new - later.</p>

<p>7) Pour in the fix and fix.</p>

<p>8) Pour the used fix back in the bottle.</p>

<p>9) Wash and dry.</p>

<p>When I write rinse out the graduate, I mean rinse several times with tap water, not just a splash. That gets rid fo the old chemicals. You can use a paper towel as a wash cloth if you wish.</p>

 

[larrydressler]

<p>One problem there.... If it clears that fast for T grain films or Delta grain films it is going to destroy things.... :-) Some films need longer clearing times others shorter... I was always of the School that double the clearing time and add a minute. <br>

<br /> I have not used an acid stop in 2 years now using water rinse and I found that it has not made my fixer last any longer or shorter.</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>Delete Lex I got a Double </p>

[cj8281]

<p>I am another one for reusing fixer until it is spent. Even a small amount of fixer will fix several films. I have not read through Ilford's fixer sheet but I have for Kodak's. On regular film Kodak Rapid fixer will fix about 100 rolls or 8x10 sheets, T-grain films, about 66 or so. So for a quart, you can fix 25 rolls, a pint will do about 12 or so. </p>

<p>A quick test for fixer. Put a drop of fixer on the emulsion side of a piece of film and let it sit for 30 seconds then immerse it in a cup of fixer and time it. Fix until you cannot see the spot anymore and note the time. When you want to test your fixer, repeat the test. When the time is double then it is time to mix a new batch. Do this test when first mixed up to set your base line. Also use the same film for each test as different films clear at different times. Using the same film will make it more consistent.</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>From the 1939 Manuel Clay LOL Works to this day Dang that Kodak.</p>

[bgelfand]

 

<blockquote>

<p>One problem there.... If it clears that fast for T grain films or Delta grain films it is going to destroy things.... :-) Some films need longer clearing times others shorter... I was always of the School that double the clearing time and add a minute.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>All I can say is Ilford Rapid Fix mixed 1+4 clears Delta 100 and PanF+ in about 45 seconds. So far all my negatives are good; some are about 10-years old.</p>

 

[larrydressler]

<p>I can understand the PanF+ as it is a traditional film. Delta is a T type grain so it should be fixed longer.... I don't dilute my fixer. I use it straight up and reuse it over and over testing it weekly in my method. I get about 6 months out of my fixer but I also process about 5 rolls a week of 120 or 35mm. Do you use Delta 400? I found it has a much longer clearing time... Kodak Tmax and TMY also need much longer than the Ilford films.</p>

[zensphoto]

<blockquote>

<p>Thank you... When you say wash between, do you mean rinse between or do you use something to wash the containers? Seems like water only would be the safe way as soap or something else might contaminate the chemicals.<br>

</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I just wash it with hot water, using like a dish washer or soap would cause more harm than good. Just hot water.</p>

[zensphoto]

<blockquote>

<p>Thank you... When you say wash between, do you mean rinse between or do you use something to wash the containers? Seems like water only would be the safe way as soap or something else might contaminate the chemicals.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I just wash it with hot water, using like a dish washer or soap would cause more harm than good. Just hot water.<br>

Another Double must be lag or something.</p>

[chris_waller]

<p>That's just what I do. If you mix the chemicals in the order in which they are used then contamination doesn't matter. Just as a matter of information, I store my film stop and fixer in old 2-litre bleach bottles which I rinse out prior to using for chemical storage. I make up 1.5 litres of each. I filter these through a coffee filter after every 10 films to remove any particles of dust etc. The film dev I use is Rodinal so I make that up immediately prior to use. I also store my print chemicals in the same type of bottle, in this case dev as well, which I top up with fresh dev after each printing session.</p>

[StuartMoxham]

<p>Great idea for reusing bleach bottles. Much less chance of anyone drinking it by mistake. I will start doing that myself.</p>

[Didier Lamy]

You should use one dedicated vial for each solution, this for at least the following reasons

- most of the chemicals are transparent, you can never be sure that your vial is properly rinsed.

- some chemicals get stuck on (inside?) some plastics, one easy demonstration: put some Kodak stop bath cat 5160346 in a Hama "Photo" #8772 polypropylene(?) vial, dilute it as indicated at ~1:63, discard the yellow mix, rinse several times but dont dry it, the drops in the vial are now clear, then leave it a few minutes and the drops will turn blue, rinse again and the drops will turn again blue after having again been clear. This phenomenon will cease only after a few more cycles; note that you dont get it with all plastics.

[craig_shearman1]

<p>Currently I have a bunch of 2-gallon tanks with floating lids, one each for developer, fix, etc., and the chemicals get mixed directly in those so contamination is not an issue. <br />Before, when I stored chemicals in plastic jugs, I mixed everything in the same large plastic pitcher I've used for 30-plus years. Between chemicals I would fill and dump it about half a dozen times. Or in a sink with a spray nozzle I would turn it upside down and spray up into it for a solid minute or two, moving the sprayer around to hit all of the inside surfaces repeatedly.<br />I still use the same measuring graduate for all chemicals, with similar rinsing in between.<br />Never any contaimination problems.<br />As for small batches, don't do it. If you buy a one gallon packet of developer powder, you have to mix the entire batch because the contents can become separated if you try to measure out enough for a smaller batch. </p>

[chris_waller]

<p>Stuart,<br>

I purposely buy a certain brand of bleach just for the bottles! They're ideal for chemical storage, having quite wide necks with air-tight, child-proof caps and a braille imprint arond the neck as required by health and safety legislation. They come in four colours and thus lend themsleves to colour-coding for dev, stop fix and whatever else.</p><div></div>

[jeff_sudduth]

<blockquote>

<p>Can one mix all of the chemicals in the same graduate if a good rinse is done between each mix or should I have separate mixing graduates and stirring rods for each chemical?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The only chemical I need to mix up in a measuring cup is my developer. I use Rodinal stand developing. Depending on the size and number of negatives I use anywhere from 300mL to 600mL of distilled water and 4-8mL of Rodinal. I mix the solution up in a cheap measuring cup and dump it in the developing tank. After I do a one hour stand development I then use a WATER stop bath. I do not use special chemical stop baths. After that I fix the film. I mix the fixer up in gallon jugs. I think one container of Kodafix mixes with water to make a gallon. So what I do is get a gallon of distilled water and dump half of it out. I then dump the concentrated Kodafix in. I then top off the gallon with distilled water from another gallon. I rinse the film in tap water. For my final wash I take the lid off the developing tank and remove the film. I then fill the tank with distilled water and then put in a mL or two of Photoflo and stir it. Once it has settled and all bubbles are gone I gently lower the film into the the wash.</p>

<p>Once I mix up the gallon of fixer I pour how much I need to fix two rolls of 35mm film in a double tank into a separate container. I store the remainder for when the fixer I am currently using is exhausted. So that is pretty much it. I only need to use a measuring cup for the Rodinal mixing.</p>

[cleeo_wright]

<p>Thank you for your help... Success with round 1 though the negs were a little thin. I was using HP5+ but probably should have rated it at 320 based on some other forum threads that I've read. For some reason I can get the ActiveX control working to load a folder so I'll post one or two images that I developed here on this thread. Thanks again everyone.</p><div></div>

[cleeo_wright]

<p>Here is one more...</p><div></div>