If a tank has rust, can I still use it?

[graham_boswell_]

<p>I'm working on a daylight sheet film tank. The only opaque pipe material I can get in St. Louis is metal (there no NO source for ABS). Stainless steal piping of the right diameter is approximately $75 dollars a foot. So, I got this nasty rusted stuff(still quite expensive). I'm not exactly sure what the metal is. Will the rust ruin the negatives? Can I get rid of the rust somehow? Can I paint the inside of the pipe with something that will keep the rust from dissolving into the chemicals and getting on my film?</p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<p>I just checked and there are 15 to 20 Lowe's and Home Depot within a 20 mile radius of St. Louis, Missouri. Both carry ABS pipe in their plumbing departments.<br>

Are you in another St Louis?</p>

[nbg90455]

<p>Get the JOBO dailight tanks and save you all this trouble...</p>

[john_shriver]

<p>Anything less than stainless steel and you're going to have trouble with the developer reacting with the tank. Steel or iron pipe isn't going to cut it.</p>

[graham_boswell_]

<p>I've called every hardware store and plumbing supply place in St. Louis and nobody has ABS. Somebody told me that it isn't up to code in St. Louis anymore.</p>

<p>With the money I've spent on different pipes and stuff, I probably could have gotten a Jobo tank by now. Oi vey...</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Graham; a 1930's tray was often paper; covered with wax. Or wood sealed with wax.</p>

<p>I assume you are making a deep tank; or deep round tank? ancient ways are to use a fiberglass boat builders epoxy. Here we built a tank for 5x7 stuff back in the 1960's out of wood; and used a couple of Sears fiberglass boat repair kits; ie fiberglass gaze and epoxy.</p>

<p>Commercial darkroom stainless is expensive; high end 316 stainless. Goober cheapie grade stainless at walmart in teh kitchen pots and pans stuff is a radically lower cost grade stainless; more like muffer grade 409 stuff. It *will* work in a darkroom; *IF* one cleans/rinses it out after useage; ie do not let stuff stay overnight in the gizmo you build.</p>

<p>Vist some surplus places that have kitchen stuff from commerical restraunts; they might have some funky cylinder that you can use too</p>

<p>My dads Kodak trays in the 1920's were paper; but they were wax coated. My brother made some big trays in the 1950's and we used spar varnish. </p>

<p>It is easier not to resort to coating a common steel tank.</p>

<p> My 1960's and 1970's SPIE photo engineering handbooks have a huge matrix with darkroom chemicals versus materials.</p>

[graham_boswell_]

<p>Thanks for the information. I just found the one place in St. Louis that still has ABS: Rock Road Trailer. I'll go take a look at the stuff tomorrow.<br /></p>

[john_shriver]

<p>Clearly some busybody wants to make plumbing more profitable in St. Louis by banning any productive techniques "for our safety".</p>

[bgelfand]

<p>You mean there is no ABS pipe in the garden centers for lawn sprinklers?</p>

[janne_moren]

Why ABS, specifically? Any plastic tubing should be fine.

[richard_rodamar2]

<p>What film size are you doing and how many?<br>

I like the ideal of the stainless steel but the thing that the Guy's that I use to work for was HARD RUBBER.<br>

If you would get a copy of Veiw Camera mag. you'll see that there are adds for 2nd. hand things things pick a few and call them, you will need at lest 3 or 4 tank depending on your darkroom 3 tank - Dev., Stop/wash, Fix // 4exp - dev.,stop.,fix.,wash(presoak is yes or no for you : I say yes ) the wash tank can be used for presoak too or if you have the $$ buy 4-5 tanks.The wash tank does not need a lid and depending on if you use it to presoak depends of if it can leak or not. Main has holes drilled in it.<br>

Ask them for agood line for B&W. The tanks should come with GOOD light tight lids & floater inside lads TOO especially for Dev.& Fixer.<br>

The wash tank should be a clean tank.<br>

If you really have too have stainless steel ask them for those ,they of corse will cost even more and most of those were use for color.</p>

<p>Ric.</p>

[graham_boswell_]

<p>The idea here is to fit a light tight lid to from a stainless steel tank (one that you can pour chemicals in and out of) to a large pipe and then have some kind of reel system inside(probably a few smaller pipes, each with a sheet of 4x5 film in it) for use in room lighting. The reason it has to be ABS is because plain PVC is not the least bit opaque(I even tried to paint it... no use).</p>

<p>I didn't check in the garden section. However, I did find some gray-ish PVC in the electrical department- some kind of conduit. Anyway, I'm going to go to the mobile home supply place sometime this week. If I'm not satisfied with the ABS they have(for its size or price), I'll go back to Home Depot and check out the gardening and electronic sections.</p>

<p>...my guess is that they will let me return the rusty stuff I got on Friday. I still feel foolish for that.</p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<p>I checked Lowe's selecting a store in St. Louis to shop. They listed two or 3 ABS makes in 1 1/2 inch, 2 inch, and 3 inch diameters but order only, not stocked in stores. Home Depot should be similar.</p>

<p>The gray PVC you found in the electrical department is conduit.</p>

[murray_kelly]

<p>I remember removing rust stains with oxalic acid. Make it a good strong solution - might be your answer?</p><p>Murray<br></p>

[frank.schifano]

<p>Removing the rust won't really help long term. The steel used in developing tanks is essentially non-reactive with photo chemistry and just about everything else. Steel pipe used for plumbing isn't. It will react with the photo chemistry, and in the process, rob some of the reduction potential from the developer. Will it react quickly enough to rob the developer of the ability to properly work on film? Maybe not the first time, and maybe not if you use the developer 1 shot. Acid stop baths and fixers will also be affected, and these are commonly reused.</p>