What happened to Fuji?

[tony_duda]

<p>I know there's been a few threads on this subject, but does anyone know for certain if Fuji plans to replace Reala or any of the professional C41 films they recently discontinued? It seems like they've conceded the color negative market to Kodak, almost overnight removing them from their U.S. web site. True, Kodak has discontinued quite a few films, but at least they put out a press release about it, and it's usually their more obscure emulsions with a very small niche. They've also given us a few new ones. Fuji, however, just axed nearly all of their professional negative films (except 400H) with no warning, apologies, announcements...with a sort of "screw the consumer, we only want digital now" attitude. I was a little stunned that they ditched Reala. Great film with (what I thought) was a good, loyal following.</p>

[Dave Luttmann]

<p>I'm still waiting for an update on the topic. Apparently there is an interview being posted to Inside Analof Photo Radio about this....but it hasn't been uploaded yet.</p>

[dangoldman]

<p>so long as they keep Provia and Velvia around i'll be ok with it... Maybe they "agreed" that Kodak would do negative films and fuji would do positives?</p>

[Dave Luttmann]

<p>Fuji global still lists all the pro films:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.fujifilm.com/products/films/color_negative_films/index.html">http://www.fujifilm.com/products/films/color_negative_films/index.html</a></p>

<p>If they stop producing professional color film, I'll stop using film for color work and convert over to digital capture (holding my nose).</p>

<p>Keep in mind that Fuji would only discontinue films that weren't making money for them. And the only way they aren't making enough money is if we aren't buying enough. In other words, time to stop our crying and start our buying!</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>What happened to Kodak at Walmart? :)</p>

<p>What is interesting is at Walmart last week *ALL* the Kodak film was gone and moved to the fire sale rack of crap with discounted prices; and the wall rack film organizer was ONLY Fuji for new stuff. I have never seen one entire film brand sent to the fire sale area. In the past they dropped 110 Kodak; then before that 100 Fuji C41; ie a case be case culling based on product type. *ALL* the kodak batteries and chargers got moved to the fire sale rack too; plus 1 Kodak inkjet printer model too</p>

[Dave Luttmann]

<p>Curtis,</p>

<p>Get used to stripping remjet backing from every roll in the future ;-)</p>

[tony_duda]

<p>It would be nice to think that Fuji discontinued their current line of professional negative films because they're getting ready to roll out some monumental leap in emulsion technology in a new line of films, but I don't think there's much of a chance of that. I would possibly believe Kodak is capable of it, but think Fuji is still trying to find its way as to what it's going to be. Kodak was in that spot a few years ago, but seems to have gotten its act together and decided there's a market for digital and analog (although no where near the market it once was). Personally, I think Fuji has just given up trying to compete with the Portra films, and Kodak's constant improvements to the line. They've never had nearly the market share for their pro C41's that Kodak has enjoyed. They've been stronger in E6 since the introduction of Velvia way back, so maybe that's where they've decided to invest in analog. Tough one, though, as good E6 processing is getting harder and harder to find.</p>

[leicaglow]

<p>I tried to buy some Fuji Acros 4x5 (10 pack) from my regular distributor and they now list it as discontinued. I was bummed when the Quickloads disappeared last year. Now I'm pretty concerned. I also use a lot of Provia, but could switch to Ektachrome 100 sheet and 120 film if needed. I wish they'd say something though. It is rather a courtesy for devout users of your stuff.</p>

[andylynn]

<blockquote>

<p>what is it with Portra film that fuji can't match?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Evidently, market share.</p>

<p>Is fast Superia film being discontinued? I went to order some and found it gone from some places and a bunch marked discontinued at B&H so I bought some from Adorama for my freezer.</p>

[tony_duda]

<p>Curtis,<br />I didn't mean to say that Fuji couldn't compete on the technology front, only that Kodak is so entrenched and far ahead in market share with their Portra films that Fuji probably reasoned their money could be put to better use elsewhere. Both Fuji and Kodak are not in the same financial situation that they were before digital tidal wave, so they both have to pick their battles and put their money where their strengths are.</p>

[dangoldman]

<p>Dave, "stop crying and start buying"? yeah, that got us real far with kodachrome...</p>

[Dave Luttmann]

<blockquote>

<p ><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=2021234">Dan Goldman</a> <a href="../member-status-icons"><img title="Frequent poster" src="http://static.photo.net/v3graphics/member-status-icons/1roll.gif" alt="" /></a>, Apr 23, 2010; 10:43 a.m.</p>

</blockquote>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Dave, "stop crying and start buying"? yeah, that got us real far with kodachrome...</p>

</blockquote>

<p>K64 is gone because people cried instead of bought. Sales volumes for K64 had been dropping for years to a point where they could sell off the production from a master roll prior to the film passing expiry.</p>

<p>Like I said, if you want it available, you have to actually use it as opposed to just talking about how much you love it.</p>

 

[leo_papandreou1]

<p>Fuji is consolidating its pro line around 160NS (='s PRO 160S renamed) and 400H. I haven't heard anything official about REALA being discontinued. I've read (nothing official) that it contained a chemical that was banned or about to be, and that would be the reason stocks haven't been replenished in N.A., but there's a version for the Japan market that's environmentally OK, so it's possible (just) that Fuji wll present a successor in N.A., eventually.</p>

[Dave Luttmann]

<p>Leo, my understanding was that the chemical in question had to do with Fuji Neopan 400, their silver B&W film.</p>

<p>I've heard about NS as well.</p>

<p>As an aside....wouldn't it be great if Fuji told everyone what the heck they are doing as opposed to letting rumors fly around the internet. It appears Fuji's problem is as much to do with PR & marketing as anything else.</p>

[don_coppola]

I tried my local Walmart in WNY to see if there was any gold 200 or batteries left -(no "fire sale" rack in this store) but only Fuji products were on the regular film racks. 2 weeks ago there were 4 pks of G200 & Kodak batteries. I did learn that in this area at least, WM is replacing the Kodak diy printers w/ones from HP.

[craig_sander]

<blockquote>

<p>stop crying and start buying</p>

</blockquote>

<p>All of us could have bought as much of it as we could have afforded or put on our credit cards, and those films would <strong>still</strong> be gone.<br>

How many times do I have to say this...<br>

Fuji and Kodak need to do their part in marketing films. If people don't know they're there, then they won't buy from them.<br>

If young people don't see film as being an option, they will all be digital shooters.<br>

I can't do Fuji's and Kodak's advertising for them. Lord knows I've tried though.</p>

[robert_landrigan]

<p>It looks like Fuji and Kodak have defined the spaces they want to dominate - Fuji pretty much owns the E6 space, and Kodak made a big statement with Ektar and TMAX 400. Color film is going niche much more severely than B/W.</p>

[emiliogtz]

<p>I don't know, it seems strange. I live in Monterrey, Mexico, a couple of years ago Fuji disappeared from the landscape. I had to travel 50 miles to a nearby town where a Fuji-based lab was still selling the whole Fuji line of films.</p>

<p>Now I can see them all over the place. You can buy Superia at most supermarkets for a very reasonable price, the labs that stopped carrying the Fuji line now carry Provia, Neopan and Reala, and some of them are <strong>back</strong> processing slides. Heck, you can even find Superia bulk-packaged at Costco!</p>

<p>I don't get it, I just don't get it.</p>

[Dave Luttmann]

<blockquote>

<p><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=2233513">Craig Sander</a> <a href="../member-status-icons"></a>, Apr 23, 2010; 03:04 p.m.</p>

</blockquote>

<blockquote>

<p>stop crying and start buying<br />All of us could have bought as much of it as we could have afforded or put on our credit cards, and those films would <strong>still</strong> be gone.<br />How many times do I have to say this...<br />Fuji and Kodak need to do their part in marketing films. If people don't know they're there, then they won't buy from them.<br />If young people don't see film as being an option, they will all be digital shooters.<br />I can't do Fuji's and Kodak's advertising for them. Lord knows I've tried though.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Really? You've just re-written how economics works. There is one reason and one only why films are discontinued.....people weren't buying enough. That comes from Kodak and Fuji themselves. Of course, if you know more about marketing and manufacturing film than Kodak or Fuji, I would love to hear what you have to say <br>

And as to your comment about the films still being gone if we all bought more....that contradicts not just me, Kodak and Fuji....but also what you just wrote yourself!</p>

[d_f11]

<p>Kodak & Fuji (and Agfa) could look into keeping film, but just manufactering it on a much smaller scale. It would be more expensive, going from a mass production product to a smaller "specialty" item. </p>

[w_t1]

<blockquote>

<p>As an aside....wouldn't it be great if Fuji told everyone what the heck they are doing as opposed to letting rumors fly around the internet. It appears Fuji's problem is as much to do with PR & marketing as anything else.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I can relate to that comment, I just left a company after 10 years, their choice not mine, and this is the hugest problem they have. The norm is to keep everyone in the dark, treat them like mushrooms, on a need-to-know basis. But if you search here in the archives, I think this was common with discontinuation of lots of other stuff, many rumors and anxiety, polaroid, techpan, kodachrome, Agfa, etc. </p>

<p>Let the hoarding and price gouging begin!</p>

[alan_rockwood]

<p>For what it's worth, I went to Pictureline the other day (one of the local pro shops) and they said that Fuji is discontinuing all C41 films.</p>

[craig_sander]

<p>Dave,<br>

Please read my response and let it sink in before you respond.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>There is one reason and one only why films are discontinued.....people weren't buying enough. </p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thats oversimplifying the problem.<br>

WHY aren't people buying more is the issue. And in my (and others opinions) some of the reason has to fall on Kodak's and Fuji's shoulders.<br>

They frankly ARE NOT doing enough to keep film around through their own marketing. They aren't.<br>

When was the last time you saw any commercials on television for film?<br />When was the last time you saw an ad in a major publication for a film product?<br />You just don't see ANY advertising like you used to for film, not even at camera stores.<br>

They do the bare minimum to make a profit, but would probably love to see most of their films disappear all together someday so they could focus on digital full time.<br>

There is no contradiction in what I wrote.<br>

WE, those of us who are dedicated film users, don't have the buying power to keep film alive by ourselves. Its just not possible. Unless of course, you have millions of extra dollars lying around waiting to be distributed to Photo.net users. Otherwise, quit blaming the demise of film on those of us who ARE buying as much as we can, and often, more than we need.</p>

 

[Dave Luttmann]

<p>Craig....let's be clear.....your avoiding the issue. Regardless of whether the causes are poor marketing, poor product delivery, poor product quality, little green men, or any other issue.....the primary cause is low sales volume. The "why" isn't the issue. It is what it is.</p>

<p>If sales increased, the films would stay. The why doesn't matter....does it? No one is blaming anyone. The issue is low sales. All that can be done is to get the word out to start buying more....and not off of Ebay....from from camera stores. Whether that be by more advertising, better quality, more efficient production....I don't care. In the end, low sales are killing the film.</p>

<p>As to ads, I see them all the time in photographic magazines. Fuji, Kodak, Ilford....on a regualr basis. Keep in mind, you're not going to see film ads splashe eerywhere as the market has been reduced to a nuiche player. The average person uses their iphone for photography....film is the least of the issues on their minds.</p>

<p>I'll let that sink in for a while....basic Econ gets missed by some people.</p>

[emiliogtz]

<blockquote>

<p>They frankly ARE NOT doing enough to keep film around through their own marketing. They aren't.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>This is mostly true. The general belief among the average consumer is that film is dead. Film companies are not doing much to change that belief. Every now and then people ask me why I shoot film. "Films is dead", they say. No, it's not, it's my usual reply, and then they don't believe me when I point out that Kodak's been upgrading their films and that you can still find film in many supermarkets and labs. People just don't look anymore, they just assume film is dead.</p>

<p>Then again, Kodak and Fuji know that we, the people still shooting film, need no marketing or advertising to continue doing so.</p>