ADMIN: Guidelines for Adhering to Topic

[m.c.fitz]

Thank you, Peter A.

[abufletcher]

Peter, very well spoken.

[jonathan_reynolds]

Oh great, another "Who are we?" and "The law's an ass" thread.

 

The most annoying feature of thoughtless rudeness on this forum is when later posters get a worthwhile thread deleted through no fault of the poster or of like-minded respondents. So please, just think before you wade in, guys.

[stephan_hugel]

Out of curiosity, who 'owns' the various forums on pnet? and who appointed the admins?<br />

It would seem to me that if it's Tony's show, and you don't like his rules, you can take your ball and go home. Everyone's email is available, so go to another forum (or, heaven forfend, set up your own - it's an infinitely more rewarding hobby than storing Leicas in boxes while you await the Grim Reaper) and tell whoever you want where that is. Is there some particular cachet of pnet that I'm missing? Anyone can sign up to the forums; thus, the signal/noise ratio is just as high as anywhere else on the hyperweb.<br />

<br />

For the record, I don't necessarily agree with Tony's manifesto, but then I don't come here for sub-par snapshots and rapturous descriptions of what pristine gear is sitting on people's shelves - I come here because the forum is a reliable source of advice on a narrow range of topics, as well as a great place to buy used gear from reliable, honest people. I can do without the bickering of retired men with a fetish for German mechanics, my contemporaries do a far better job than you could ever hope to.

[brambor]

Tony is trying to do his best by cleansing the forum of dilentantes and undesirable topics and unwelcome threads. This cleansing job is making the forum, well, sterile.

[gabri]

Sorry Eric if I use it.

But now it's time.

Too much has been said.

 

Leica or not here's the Puncake Bunny

 

 

 

 

<center><img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/2707095-lg.jpg"></center> </p> <center><i>Not from a Leica...so what??</i></center>

[stephan_hugel]

Gabrielle,<br />

I feel that you are dishonouring the memory of Oolong (for that was his name) by referring to him as 'Pancake Bunny', your litany of other transgressions regarding on-topic, leica-centric posts aside.

[al_kaplan1]

I suppose that some of you would rather not see my name and photos of me here. It's pretty dang obvious. I'm not the one that started it, other than to get a bunch of local Leica Forum folks to meet for breakfast, although I'll admit that I probably played along with it. Why? Ego? No! I thought that it seved a higher purpose of bringing people together. Unfortunately it has alienated a few of you, but by and large I think that it has served its purpose.

 

Here on forum you're only seeing what I post here, not the emails that I often send out to forum members when I feel that answering their questions would involve a LOT of off topic information of little interest to any others here. Originally I decided that it might be nice if the board regulars that live in my area might get together and meet. Ten or more years ago we would have bumped into one another, gotten to know one another, around the always full coffee pot at one the local photo shops, several of which were Leica dealers, or the local pro color labs. Those days are gone. Now I suspect most of us get a lot of our equipment either via an 800 number, credit card, and UPS, or order directly on line with the credit card. The pro lab is now a printer next to the computer in most photo studios today. I was trying to get together with other like minded photographers, trade ideas, and make new friends.

 

Then a trip to North Carolina came along and I did the same thing there. Since then I regularly meet with Leica photographers who are either visiting the South Florida area, or are en route to someplace else but coming through Miami. I've made some good new friends here. Should I travel to any number of places in the future I know that I can dash off an email or make a quick phone call to a friend in that city, someone that I first met here. In fact I was just interupted by an email from a forum regular who's planning of visiting Miami in a few months. And the invitation is open to any of you if you find youself travelling to South Florida. Thanks, Al

[mike dixon]

Since we're hopelessly off topic at that point anyway:

 

Al, any chance you'd be willing to pose for a shot of you with a pancake on your head? Think of the effect on board morale. . .

[brunom]

Tony

 

Your dilemma is not to be envied. I believe that the best and most effective rules are those that are straightforward and simple.

It seems that you are trying to 'change the world' with so many regulations, that won't be adhered to because of their complexity and length.

Just as we should accept it with good grace, when we are wrong, I feel the moderators should as well. It's not a case of them and us, we're all part of this virtual community.

 

Why has it got to be done in one fell swoop? Why not do it in stages, such as by starting off with banning all offensive and disrespectful posts and those that are silly/stupid or completely off topic [ Nikon slr v Canon slr],plus racism and bigotry, and see how it goes? You may find that what follows is acceptable and you would have no need to sanitise or 'Stepford'ise the forum.

 

Leicas are not [in general] studio or sports cameras,but are used to record life, all of it, whether it's uncomfortable or not, and if you start to censor, it would no longer be leica photography but Photo.net Photography, and that would be a great shame.

 

Regards

 

Bruno

[al_kaplan1]

Sure thing Mike. No butter and syrup please! Perhaps with all this disagreement and indecision we should use a waffle instead? Just let me know when you want to shoot it. We'll keep Tony at bay by shooting in front of a mirror so both the Leica that I'll be holding and the one that your using to photograph me will be plainly visible in the photo.

[Andrew in Austin]

You asked for suggestions. So here goes. Yep, there is a lot of digression, provication and hijacking in threads on this forum.

 

Just remember, if the hostile, derogatory and combative filter had been in effect already, this web site would have had to ban Scott Eaton long ago.

 

Someone in an above post mentioned photography in the "Leica spirit", which I presume includes posts relating to a lot of L mount / M mount bodies and lenses that are not specifically Leica. Call this third party gear if you will.

 

I think it would be a BIG MISTAKE to eliminate those postings or questions related to L mount or M mount photography of non-Leica rangefinder gear and optics. Many of these posts may be of interest to those photogs on their way to becoming Leica photographers and are testing the waters. A case in point, both V/C and Soviet LTM gear are, in my opinion, are affordable entry level gear that should be considered stepping stones towards Leicadom. Canon LTM and Nicca are two other gray areas.

 

Digressing a moment and with regards to the gray area getting grayer, it will be interesting to see how this forum evolves now that photogs are using Leitz glass on their V/C RD-1 bodies and some cases a digital EOS.

 

In short my recommendation is that you don't scare off future candidates on their way to full Leicadom by becoming too elitist.

[peter_werner1]

Tony,

 

I fully agree to banning insults, personal attacks, rudeness. Delete offensive, disrespectful and silly posts but do not kill a thread because somebody has posted a "dark" message. This would be rude to the bona fide members who invested time and good will with their contributions.

 

On the rest, do not issue too many rules and do not be heavy-handed, lead the horse on the long rein and it will be much more willing to go along.

 

The Leica world is getting wider. Reflex is part of it, digital is part of it. And cross-breeds are getting more and more popular. CV, Russian, Canon lenses on Leica RF bodies, Leica R lenses on EOS or Alpa bodies, Kilfitt lenses on Leica R bodies, Leica lenses on Panasonic Lumix bodies are part of the present Leica world. Why for instance should we not discuss the relative merits of a certain Leica lens vs. a corresponding Canon lens on an EOS body?

 

By being too strict, the Leica Forum might become a get together for elitist, well-to-do, clubby people talking about the 'specialness' of their gear. Try to avoid this pitfall.

 

Best regards,

 

Peter

[bobtodrick]

Too bad some of you whiners wouldn't start your own forums. My, my, it's easy to complain when you're NOT ACTUALLY DOING ANY WORK. As always this is one of the best photo forums out there...in large part due to the time and effort of the moderators. Some of you really do need to get a life.

[boris_ochan]

Bob, spot on.

[john_noble1]

<i>My, my, it's easy to complain when you're NOT ACTUALLY DOING ANY WORK.

</i><br><br>

 

Oh, but we <i>are</i> doing work. It takes time and effort (i.e. WORK) to write and

respond to postings, make critiques, etc. Some of the folks posting to this thread

probably do more WORK than the moderator.

[james_cooke]

"Selfish bad mannered behaviour is poor form. the best way to improve the mood of the forum is for everyone who chooses to post to treat people with respect and the forum with respect - a gentle reminder that this isn't the Al Kaplan Forum isn't a declaration of war - a differing point of view on gear or method shouldn't be a declaration of war."

 

Well said Peter? You must be joking right? Peter its yours and others like Erin's constant sniping about Al (including Tony's own thread amazing!) is whats dragging down the forum and its that constant badgering of others like Jay that caused problems before. If you dont want to talk about gear, fine dont, no one has ever said you cant keep posting your photos and talking about them, but dont tell people what they should give to the forum or take out of it because its their choice, demanding people post photos to prove themselveslike you have been with Al and others did with Jay are totally out of form and are the threads that always get out of hand. I dont think you even realize your causing friction from what you have just written! None of the people who like to talk about gear have demanded that the W/NW posters should talk about gear to prove their knowledge, nor should they have to. How about you leave people to post what they want and how they want within the rules and let Tony handle those outside the rules and leave those who have offered their experince for years in their own way to continue to do so.

[travis1]

If you come in to any forums with the notion of :" let's see how I can help" you should be fine: We should all be fine

[brambor]

well said, Travis.

[brunom]

Bob

 

You say that the success of this forum is largely due to the time and effort of the moderators, but Tony stated that he "has always been very lax with regard to the moderation of this forum". If that's correct then you both can't be right?

 

regards

 

Bruno

[ben z]

Tony, if you want the biggest postive result from your investment in time as a moderator, you might consider focusing your attention more on context than than content. From where I sit, neither off-topicness nor an occasional cuss word undermines the forum as much as posts that are on-topic and cussless but mean-spirited and purposely meant to demean, humiliate and inflame.

[ray .]

Intentional or not, Al has become as polarizing a figure here as

Jay was.

[kevin m.]

Dave, nothing against Al, but how do you know he's a "great" photographer?

 

Also, before you start giving advice on how to best run the place, how about chipping in with your $25; I'm pretty sure money, unlike advice, is always appreciated.

[david j.lee]

ouch.

[nesrani]

Oh god, not the $25 dollar nonsense again.