Cheap used mirrorless camera to experiment with old lenses

<p>Hi.<br>

Like many, I'd like to have a small interchangeable-lens camera, but mostly for fun. I'm not interested in a replacement for larger gear, but rather something onto which I can fit lenses that I already have (mostly FD, EF, EF-S, it would be fun if I could attach Zenzanons too...) to take on the odd walk. So I'm really not looking for how this and that feature may be able to allow me to use a mirrorless camera as a primary equipment, but merely into what may make a 'toy' more versatile or convenient. Since there are a number of developments going on in this area (albeit Nikon and Canon at least seem to be in no hurry to churn new nodels), I thought there may be something in the used market that would be a good value for the kind of usage I intend. I haven't made a thorough investigation, but most of what I've seen seems to indicate that there isn't. So I thought of asking here if you know of any specific model that may fit my hobbyish needs at a small price, or if it's not yet the time for that. Thanks.</p>

<p>If you don't mind the crop-factor, you might look at a refurbished Olympus E-PM1 which can be had, body-only, about $115 US. With the kit lens you can get the combo for around $185 US. These prices are from http://www.cameta.com</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I got Fujifilm X-E1 for that purpose and it serves me very well. I'm using old nikon and pentax lenses on it.</p>

If you really want to mount your EF and EF-S lenses, the Canon M mirrorless would work best. You would have aperture control, IS would work (if you have IS lenses), and there would be some AF functions, although it would be quite slow. For mounting other vintage lenses, then any mirrrorless would work (M43, Sony, Fuji). Older M43 and NEX models, and the Canon M, should be available at a low cost.

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: the NEX-5n is Sony's gift to legacy lens shooters.

<p>If you like to shoot normal and wide on a budget, look for 1.5 crop factor cameras. If you need a telephoto camera look for 2x crop plus cameras. Most all mirrorless cameras will handle just about any manual focus lens as the thin body configuration and registration in most cases allow the use of any vintage lens with appropriate adapter and maintains infinity focus.</p>

<p>Like Kenneth said, if your lenses are mostly Canon, go for the EOS-M, as it's compatible with them and you'll be able to use image stabilization and autofocus. </p>

<p>If you are looking at other lenses though, there are also good deals for E-PM2 bodies currently -$299-$399 including one or two lenses. Check amazon and ebay. Should be worth the difference from E-PM1, but if you really want an inexpensive deal, I guess the prices quoted by Rob would be hard to beat. The advantage of Olympus over other options would be in the in-body image stabilization - that would help in low light or with longer focal lengths.</p>

<p> </p>

While the m4/3s Olympuses give you the benefit of in-body stabilization, the Sony Nexes give you a larger sensor and

better image quality. Fuji X cameras are still a little too pricey, even used, to be labelled toys.

<p>Perhaps you are younger than me but I have a hard time seeing any EF or EF-S lens as "old". Manual focus lenses from the mid 1980's Canon FD's...and older...OK. Frankly, I think this is where you want to be to find "interesting" lenses with "character". Just use EOS digital cameras if full use of your modern Canon AF lenses are needed, they work better. Check out early M42 screw mount lenses for real bargains on cool optics to play with.</p>

<p>I use Sony NEX 6 and A7 cameras now, but cheap they're not. The Sony 5n is a good one that is less expensive but still not cheap (but don't under estimate pluses of an articulated rear screen!) I like the APS-C size sensor. I started my mirrorless explorations with a Samsung NX100 <a href="/canon-fd-camera-forum/00ZTdA">HERE</a>, <a href="/canon-fd-camera-forum/00ZlSl">HERE</a> and <a href="/digital-camera-forum/00a8N3">HERE</a>. Worked great and bodies can be found now for under $100. Cheap adapters cost a few bucks. For an inexpensive toy to noodle with and good IQ, it is my recommendation.</p>

<p>I think the EOS M fits all of your stated requirements best.</p>

<p>Get the Canon EF/EF-S -> EOS M adapter for your EF and EF-S lenses. It is built to the normal, high quality Canon standard and it has a tripod foot. Your Canon EF/EF-S lenses will have all the same functionality on the EOS M as they do on your other Canon DSLR(s).</p>

<p>Fotodiox (among many others) offer a wide range of lens adapters including the Canon FD -> EOS M for a very reasonable price. Here are a few links to some of the Fotodiox, EOS M adapters:</p>

<p>https://www.fotodioxpro.com/index.php/quickshop/index/view/path/fotodiox-canon-fd-fl-to-canon-eos-m-mount-camera-lens-mount-adapter.html</p>

<p>http://www.fotodioxpro.com/fotodiox-pro-lens-mount-adapter-m42-42x1mm-screw-mount-lens-to-canon-ef-m-eos-m-mirrorless-digital-camera-system-with-macro-focusing-helicoid.html</p>

<p>http://www.fotodioxpro.com/fotodiox-pro-lens-mount-adapter-nikon-nikkor-including-g-d-type-mount-lens-to-canon-ef-m-eos-m-mirrorless-digital-camera-system-with-macro-focusing-helicoid.html</p>

<p>http://www.fotodioxpro.com/fotodiox-pro-olympus-om-zuiko-35mm-mount-lens-to-canon-eos-m-ef-m-mount-camera-lens-mount-adapter.html</p>

<p>http://www.fotodioxpro.com/fotodiox-leica-m-rangefinder-lens-to-canon-eos-m-mount-camera-lens-mount-adapter.html</p>

<p>http://www.fotodioxpro.com/fotodiox-m39-screw-mount-lens-to-canon-eos-m-mount-camera-lens-mount-adapter.html</p>

<p>I bought a New EOS M kit with the Canon lens adapter, 90 EX flash and the 22mm/f2.0 lens for under $400.00. I bought it to have it converted to an IR only camera, but, I like it so much I may buy a second one for visible light photography. The touch screen interface is VERY good (like a newer smart phone) the image quality is quite good, the auto focus speed (subject of many complaints in early production models) is fine since the firmware upgrade and the 22mm/f2 lens is VERY VERY good.</p>

<p>Cheers! Jay</p>

<p>Hello António Marques, I would like to respond as to what, in my opinion, is your best choice for your needs.<br /> -<br /> Well, I am speaking as someone that has many, many lenses and uses them adapted with Mirrorless bodies, as well as have tried all of the other mirror less bodies and have used many dSLRs over the years.<br /> -<br /> I can tel you forma practical standpoint, especially if you want to have fun and use the old FD lenses, that the Canon EOS M should not be on your list. As well as any other camera that does not have an EVF. There are actually many reasons not to buy the EOS M just for adapted lens use but the lack of EVF is the major one. It's just harder to focus manual lenses without an EVF (electronic view finder). However cameras like the E-PL1 have a port where you can attach an accessory EVF, but that increases the cost of what you would likely to buy yet you can keep that accessory when you want to upgrade the body.<br /> -<br /> I would recommend, for best sensor performance, with the largest available sensors of the mirrorless cameras, one of the Sony NEX/ E-mount cameras that have a built in EVF or an add on one. If you can find a used NEX 6 that would be nice for you, or a NEX 7, but the 7 is the top of the line of the APS-C sensor E-mount cameras & would likely cost much more even used.<br /> -<br /> For both economical & performance reasons, I think you should buy a used µ4/3 camera body which has a slightly smaller sensor than the NEX cameras but Way Larger than the EOS-M.<br /> Ones with built in EVF's will sell for less than the NEX cameras will right now, and if & when you want to purchase native lenses for the system there are way more lenses to choose from than any of the other mount systems out there right now.<br /> Also, of all the mirrorless, interchangeable lens mount cameras out there, In Body Image stabilization is available only on all Olympus bodies and only one Panasonic, which is the expensive Gx-7.<br /> SO that's another thing to consider if that is important to you. Personally I feel it matters more with telephoto lenses but is not something you can't learn to live without.<br /> -<br /> Consider a Used Panasonic G3, with 16mp sensor fully articulating rear screen and built-in EVF. I have seen those bodies sell for around $200 USD.<br /> -<br /> Add to that the fact that for both the Sony E-mount & µ4/3 systems you can purchase speed Booster adapters for your lenses (Google speed boosters or check out mu-43 dot com for more information about those, it is too much information for me to completely explain here) which will make your lenses faster, especially increasing the f number. To note, there is a choice for EF speed booster adapter with one having manual only control and the other Full AF and IS ability (of course the latter is more expensive).<br /> Now the Speed-boosters are a few hundred dollars each so you can upgrade to one later if you like and in the mean time start using your lenses with Cheep regular adapters which cost around ten bucks.<br /> -<br /> I have many Minolta MD, canon FD and Konica AR mount lenses that I use on my µ4/3 camera all the time, as-well as some other lenses in various mounts such as Canon EF, EF-S, Minolta A mount, and Nikon AFs lenses and Yes, it would be fun if to attach Zenzanons too. I have done that just to try .. Big suckers.. Me no like..lol .</p>

<p>I even have many C-mount, movie camera lenses that will Completely cover the sensor when used. They are soo tiny when compared to any other SLR lens that one could use with an adapter. One of the 75mm f1.4 adapted C-mount lens that I own is always in my camera bag.</p>

<p>Anyways, that's my opinion from someone who understands what you want and where you are coming from, and who has tried all the equipment mentioned so far.</p>

<p>Hi all,<br>

Thank you for the quite different opinions! It's a joy that one can get so many reasoned points of view here.<br>

The EOS-M would indeed be an interesting choice given my mention of EF(-S). I didn't even think of the niceties of having support for the auto features. That said, as we do have EF(-S) cameras, the mirrorless's main purpose would be to play around with those lenses that we don't have digital cameras for (mainly FD, but not only). Of course, you couldn't tell that from my original question. Dumb me. But if the EOS-M price drops with the coming(?) EOS-M2, then it may be an option.<br>

Reading dan Mar made me certain that I do want an EVF. It's not only focusing, I hate using cameras without a viewfinder. And the in-body stabilization of the Olympuses is a very cogent selling point, but... can I live with a crop factor of 2? (I don't know. I know the 1.6 of APS-C is irritating enough for me, tho I simply have no choice there, I have to live with it and end of the question).<br>

So it's down to Olympus something vs NEX something (or Fuji?) and I can't decide. I'll have to see what deals appear (I'm in Europe).<br>

I'm aware that MF lenses on a crop sensor are not at all a good idea. I did like some shots I saw on the web, but they were very specific, not general photography.</p>

<p>If cheap is what you are looking for then Panasonic G series is perhaps the answer. I bought a battered old version (G1) to try out my LTM lenses. Not the best under low light but for what I paid for it I think I did well.</p>

<p>There are two different issues here. First I will address using EF and EF-S lenses on anything besides Canon SLRs. You will lose autofocus, aperture control, IS, exif data, etc. Adapting lenses is best an option for older manual focus lenses which would not give these controls with ANY camera. The best "adapter" for EF and EF-S lenses is simply a Canon SLR. Get yourself the Canon SL1, T3, T4i, T5i, etc. Any of the Rebels. There will be no difference in your bag, since they are almost as small as mirrorless cameras, but with autofocus.</p>

<p>Now, with regards to lenses that you should consider adapting, such as FD, Minolta Rokkor, Zeiss, etc:</p>

<p>As someone whose most-used camera is quickly becoming my Panasonic G5, upgraded from a Panasonic G2, which is a surprise since my Panasonic gear was originally purchased to be a backup to my Nikon gear, I would NOT recommend Panasonic or Olympus for adapting lenses. First, you want focus peaking, which only a few of the Panasonic and Olympus models have. More importantly, however, the crop factor of 2x really turns all of your lenses into telescopes. A friend recently upgraded his NEX camera to the NEX-6, which is the number 1 camera I would reasonably recommend for adapting lenses. It has focus peaking, a viewfinder, good controls, and to top it all off, it has AMAZING image quality. Even the NEX-5n that is already mentioned is pretty much the same camera, just without the viewfinder if you don't mind.</p>

<p>I very much disagree about the Canon EOS M. It is really not that good of a camera. It is too bad that Canon made it just to confuse mirrorless buyers, instead of making it competitive. They seem to be hesitant to make it good because they don't want to hurt their SLR sales. The SL1 is a better choice IMO, especially since you have to add the $100 adapter for it to function, all just to get pokey slow autofocus. But then again, if you have EF-S lenses, then you already have an EF-S camera, making this all moot, as you've already solved this half of the problem.</p>

<p>My take: I use FD and Eos lenses on panasonic cameras (gf1 and g2), as well as the systems they are designed for. I have the add-on EVF for the gf1, but I hardly ever use it. Most of my subjects with this setup are still life, and by magnifiying the focus something like 10x or whatever it is when I push the thumbwheel it's easy to focus on the screen. Like I do with a magnifier for large format. The g2 and gh2 have evf, obviously. With ef lenses I simply set the aperture I want on an eos body before mounting on the panasonics. But to be honest wide open usually works for me. </p>

<p>The adapters for u43 to eos and fd are cheap and glassless, but the downside is you will end up wanting a lens made for u4/3 so consequently I added the panny 7-14 and 20mm lenses, oh and a gh2 for video. I'm glad all the variety and options are out there and anything you want to part with after trying out is easily sold on ebay.</p>

<p>António Marques , Do not forget , that the EOS-M has no Viewfinder option. It's just the rear screen, and its not easy to use the manual lenses with it because manual functions are not easy to use on the camera. Its mostly for auto functions. Also DO not forget that you can get an Auto focus adapter for your EF-S lenses to be used on Both the µ4/3 camera system aswell as the Sony E mount system (NEX) just like you can get an EF-S to EF-M adapte . . . BUT ... there is one other option that you can only get with the Sony or µ4/3 cameras, and that is the use of an EF-S adapter with a focal reducer. YOu really should look up info about that. The speed booster reduces the focal length by a factor of 0.71x and increases the maximum aperture by 1 stop.</p>

<p>Example: A using a Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 lens on Canon 5D gives a 47 degree angle of view at the Diagonal. Use that same lens on the EF-S camera like the EOS M and its only a 31 degree angle of view. On the µ4/3 sensor it is a 23.5 degree angle of view only 7.5 degrees smaller, but if you use a speed booster adapter , it compesses the image circle so that the degree angle of view is the same on a APS-C camera, Like the Sonly NEX . SO if you used that 50mm f1.8 lens with speed booster on the Nex7 you would see the same image as if you were using it on the Canon 5D but it would be an f/1.3 lens now. If you used that lens with a speed booster adapter on a µ4/3 camera the angle of view is only 7.5 degrees smaller but it also becomes an f/1.3 lens.<br>

EF-S lenses are designed fr APS-C sensors and have a smaller image circle so speed boosted ones would vignette severely, just as if you used them on a Canon 5D. However if used on the µ4/3 sensor most do not vignette and ones that do are not as severe.</p>

<p>I have an extra Panasonic Lumix µ4/3 camera body and I almost want to send it to you with an FD adapter to play with for a week .. </p>

<p>How far are you from New York?</p>

 

Hey dan Mar, thank you for the kindness, but I'm in a different continent! I know nothing about focal reducers, but they

certainly seem a very interesting thing to try...

I think I'll hold out for now. It's good enough to know that any lenses I get will easily be used digitally some years from

now. Quite a comfy feeling. And I'll keep an eye open for some m43 or NEX bargain... I'll have nothing to lose on such a

deal. Thank you all!

<blockquote>

<p>.....any lenses I get will easily be used digitally some years from now.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No.. they can be used Today!<br /> Sorry you are so far away , i cant even sell you my G1, I would have offered it to you for 100 USD but shipping would be way too much .. You should look around for a used Panasonic G1 body. They sell used for about 130 to 150 USD. Thats not much to spend on a camera for just fun. If you dont like it I am sure you can sell it or five it as a gift; you could pick up a kit lens for it for 60-90 USD.<br>

Also buy a Cheep (10 dollars usually ) FD adapter and have fun.. its soo small it would fit into a bag with your dSLR camera.</p>

<p>Maybe a second-hand NEX3 with a bunch of adaptors? </p>

<p>Cheap? The Sony a3000 (ILCE-3000) fits cheap better than anything going. As cheap as it is though? It delivers better IQ than my D300s 20m to 12m of course. Often $249 and even less, add Rainbow Imaging's $10 adapters of choice and I don't see anything competing for cheap with this. Coupled with an old Zeiss 58/2 Biotar ($40) ...well let's just say I've paid far, far, far, far more for far less than what this can do. Pancolar 50mm, Pentacon 50mm, Auto Sears, Mamiya 50mm 1.4, Yashinon 50 1.4, Domiplan 50mm, are you getting a hint here? I have about 50 more......sense a pattern? It is so cheap that it's not worth repairing if it breaks down, cheaper to buy a new one. Who ever heard of a trend like that one before?</p>

<p>I'll add my vote for the NEX-5n. One of the real joys of this camera is focus-peaking which I think is better implemented on the Sony than in other cameras. Another is the articulating screen which puts the camera more where I want it for portraits. Produces excellent results with SLR lenses on adapters. Only recently upstaged (by the Sony A6000) as my favorite portrait camera.</p>

<p>FWIW, provided you are going to do manual focusing, just try the $20 adapters, you don't need the precision of the $200 adapters.</p>

<p>Buy your 5n today in excellent condition from KEH for $235-255. </p>