Camera recommendation for beginner

[samstevens]

A friend’s son is taking a photography class and just asked me this question. Does anyone have suggestions? Thanks. 

“I am taking a photo class in school and we use canon rebel t7s. I was thinking about investing in a camera that is good for both photo and video for under $1000. Any recommendations?”

[Wayne Melia]

phone camera. prevent getting distracted by complexities of aperture. shutter, focus, post_processing, etc.; and thereby concentrate on point_of_view, composition, direction_of_light, etc.

[rodeo_joe1]

2 hours ago, Wayne Melia said:

phone camera. prevent getting distracted by complexities of aperture. shutter, focus, post_processing, etc.; and thereby concentrate on point_of_view, composition, direction_of_light, etc.

I entirely agree about where the learning priorities should lie... but a phone-camera brings limitations. The stuck-at-wideangle lens, together with its lack of depth-of-field control and distortion at close-up distances, doesn't make for a good user experience. It also kind of renders those photography lessons redundant if you haven't got full control of the technicalities.

WRT choice of camera: Mirrorless offers so many advantages that I wouldn't look outside of that category these days, but whoa - some of the prices are eye watering! So maybe looking at a minty used or non-current discounted model?

Does the lad have a particular type of photography he's into? Not much point in going above 24 Mp if they're into handheld street stuff. Nor paying for a kit lens if macro, wildlife or 'bokeh' is their thing. 

[samstevens]

On 2/21/2023 at 1:09 AM, rodeo_joe1 said:

Does the lad have a particular type of photography he's into?

No. He’s experimenting with a lot of different things. You mentioned mirrorless, thanks. Is there a direction you’d point him in within his budget and that takes into account his interest in video as well as still?

 

[samstevens]

On 2/20/2023 at 9:50 PM, Wayne Melia said:

phone camera

Thanks. He has a phone camera. He wants something else.

[Sanford]

If I had to start from scratch I'd go with the Panasonic G7 with kit lens for under $500.

[ed_farmer]

I've been shooting Nikon since 1978.  If I was starting today, I would probably end up with Canons.  Not because they are better but because their marketing is better.  

I have always advised that people start out with Canon or Nikon.  I always get a lot of pushback on that.  The reason is that the farther you go into photography as a hobby or a profession, the more diverse your needs become.  Lenses, flashes and bodies start to pile up.  As you learn and your photography grows "kit" lenses no longer fill the bill.  The current Nikon and Canon lines (particularly when you get into the third party manufacturers) fill almost every need.  the used market in these systems has everything that you need.  

It's not that Sony, Panasonic, Pentax, et al. don't make quality gear.  It's that quality gear for these two manufactures in everywhere.  

[BeBu Lamar]

Doesn't he have a Canon T7s already? He can keep using that. He will have to decide for himself what he wants to get. To know what he wants to get read up on new camera features and using his camera a lot to know what it's short coming are. 

[samstevens]

8 minutes ago, ed_farmer said:

If I was starting today, I would probably end up with Canons.

Thanks. Is there a particular Canon you’d recommend that does well with video and is under $1,000.00. 

[samstevens]

7 minutes ago, BeBu Lamar said:

Doesn't he have a Canon T7s already? He can keep using that. He will have to decide for himself what he wants to get. To know what he wants to get read up on new camera features and using his camera a lot to know what it's short coming are. 

Thanks for your thoughts. 

[samstevens]

25 minutes ago, Sanford said:

If I had to start from scratch I'd go with the Panasonic G7 with kit lens for under $500.

Thanks. I’ll pass this suggestion along. 

[Ken Katz]

If I was young with a healthy back, I would want to be in either the Canon R, Nikon Z, or Sony E system, since they will all be survivors in the long run and will have the most extensive FF system when and if the person is ready for it.  I am not invested in any of these (bad back / need M43), but do like what Canon is currently doing in the entry level R mirrorless.  The new Canon EOS R50 is APSC and inherited much of the Canon R3 AF tracking and subject recognition tech, and cost $800 with the cheap/slow kit lens.  There are cheaper mirrorless and DSLR options if cost is the priority, but I would try to avoid camera systems that may be orphaned in the coming years.  Canon now has 3 new R mount APSC cameras, so I think they are committed to the format and will likely introduce a wider line of applicable lenses in the near future.

[samstevens]

Thanks, @Ken Katz, I passed your post onto him. 

[Jochen_S]

Not sure what to recommend; video isn't my thing and sometimes I splurge. 

(Used) DSLRs wise, I 'd look for a Canon with dual pixel AF, assuming that anything worse would suck badly for video. 

I recommend stretching the budget to cover maybe 2 stabilized zooms and a niffy fifty and prepare to toss in a 2nd body, some flashgun(s) and maybe another lens next wealth. 

If that 2nd body is no mid term option, I'd sacrifice camera features, to get a tourist zoom with longer range than the average kit lens. I am not overly familiar with the used DSLR & MILC markets but believe Canon had an 18-135 IS lens? 

I wouldn't fuzz a lot about DSLRs beeing not future proof, assuming that a first set of zooms in a young enthusiast's hands will get worn out anyhow. At that moment todays latest and greatest camera can be had used for less.

[William Michael]

On 2/21/2023 at 8:37 AM, samstevens said:

“I am taking a photo class in school and we use canon rebel t7s.

I am confused - 

Does this mean "I presently use a Canon T7s" - or - "the 'school' uses Canon T7s"

If the former, then I suggest the chap use his T7s for the course, especially if this is an High School Course.

What's the course comprise? A few of years ago I got talking to two High School Teachers at a restaurant in San Francisco - at the school they taught, the (Art) curriculum is similar to what I know here: focusing on (practical) basics incorporating both the 'artistic' and the 'technical' elements of Photography, additionally, with splattering of 'history' thrown in.

If this is the situation for this student, then a Canon entry level DSLR and kit lens would be (more than) adequate.

***

On the point of expansion of a kit at a later date, when one has a better idea of the objectives of one's Photography (be they amateur or professional) , I agree with point Ed Farmer made regarding Canon and Nikon: I too have been slammed for that opinion: regarding 135 Format, since 1972 I've used Minolta, then Nikon then Canon; as I developed my  Photography and as my business interests widened I quickly realized it was only Nikon and Canon that offers the range and a quick and easy of access of product, beyond others. The reason I changed from all Nikon to all Canon (cica. 2004) was, (IMO) Canon nailed Digital early on with the 20D, 30D and 5D.        

As well as directing the question here, the student should direct his question to the teacher(s) of the course.           

***

If the meaning of the quoted  section is the school uses Canon T7s, then (if supplied by the school), I reckon the student should use that camera for the course: if the school doesn't allow 24 hour access to the camera, then I recommend a second hand purchase or perhaps borrowing a DSLR or Mirrorless - as Rodeo mentioned, mirrorless has advantages, at a price cost though.

***

As a general comment, I think "investing" $1000.00 for (what I assume is) a High School Photography course is putting the cart before the horse - if by another means there is a basic DSLR or Mirrorless available at no cost - use that, for the time being: after the course the student will (should) know a lot more about how to spend $1000.00 and how to get a better bang for those 1000 bucks.

WW                 

 

[William Michael]

BTW -

I can't find a Canon model "t7s".

I can find (USA models) T7; T7i; and T6s - all these models, with the kit lens, would suit the situation as I described above.

WW

[rodeo_joe1]

The "does well with video" clause is what's making me hesitant to make a camera suggestion, because video can knock things into an entirely different ball park. 

To me, "good video" means at minimum a nice steady shot and decent sound quality - requiring at least an external mic or two, good image stabilisation, or use of a tripod or gyro-gimbal. Those items alone could bust a $1000 budget. Even for basic Vlogging. Because distorted and noisy sound, together with motion-sickness inducing camera waving, will nullify even an 8K picture quality. 

(I couldn't watch the TV series 'NYPD blue' because of its choice of a wobbly handheld camera verite shooting style. And doubtless the cameras used on that series weren't at all cheap.) 

For example: Two cheaper cameras on tripods with a 'wild' sound recording setup can allow for close-up or zoomed cutaway edits, which will give a much more professional and polished look than one expensive handheld camera using its inbuilt mics and with non-edited real time zooming and subsequent focus-hunting.

'Wild' sound presenting no synch issues, given the precision of modern digital timing.

The actual image quality is secondary to the overall audio-visual experience IMO. And since nearly all digital cameras can produce acceptable video image quality these days, it's down to the ancillaries like external mics, tripods and smooth zooming/focussing lenses to make the real difference. But again, it depends on the use-case as to what minimum budget is needed. 

Edited February 23, 2023 by rodeo_joe1

[samstevens]

18 hours ago, Jochen_S said:

Not sure what to recommend; video isn't my thing and sometimes I splurge. 

(Used) DSLRs wise, I 'd look for a Canon with dual pixel AF, assuming that anything worse would suck badly for video. 

I recommend stretching the budget to cover maybe 2 stabilized zooms and a niffy fifty and prepare to toss in a 2nd body, some flashgun(s) and maybe another lens next wealth. 

If that 2nd body is no mid term option, I'd sacrifice camera features, to get a tourist zoom with longer range than the average kit lens. I am not overly familiar with the used DSLR & MILC markets but believe Canon had an 18-135 IS lens? 

I wouldn't fuzz a lot about DSLRs beeing not future proof, assuming that a first set of zooms in a young enthusiast's hands will get worn out anyhow. At that moment todays latest and greatest camera can be had used for less.

Thanks. Useful info which I'll pass along about the DSLR thing.

[samstevens]

17 hours ago, William Michael said:

I am confused - 

Does this mean "I presently use a Canon T7s" - or - "the 'school' uses Canon T7s"

If the former, then I suggest the chap use his T7s for the course, especially if this is an High School Course.

What's the course comprise? A few of years ago I got talking to two High School Teachers at a restaurant in San Francisco - at the school they taught, the (Art) curriculum is similar to what I know here: focusing on (practical) basics incorporating both the 'artistic' and the 'technical' elements of Photography, additionally, with splattering of 'history' thrown in.

If this is the situation for this student, then a Canon entry level DSLR and kit lens would be (more than) adequate.

***

On the point of expansion of a kit at a later date, when one has a better idea of the objectives of one's Photography (be they amateur or professional) , I agree with point Ed Farmer made regarding Canon and Nikon: I too have been slammed for that opinion: regarding 135 Format, since 1972 I've used Minolta, then Nikon then Canon; as I developed my  Photography and as my business interests widened I quickly realized it was only Nikon and Canon that offers the range and a quick and easy of access of product, beyond others. The reason I changed from all Nikon to all Canon (cica. 2004) was, (IMO) Canon nailed Digital early on with the 20D, 30D and 5D.        

As well as directing the question here, the student should direct his question to the teacher(s) of the course.           

***

If the meaning of the quoted  section is the school uses Canon T7s, then (if supplied by the school), I reckon the student should use that camera for the course: if the school doesn't allow 24 hour access to the camera, then I recommend a second hand purchase or perhaps borrowing a DSLR or Mirrorless - as Rodeo mentioned, mirrorless has advantages, at a price cost though.

***

As a general comment, I think "investing" $1000.00 for (what I assume is) a High School Photography course is putting the cart before the horse - if by another means there is a basic DSLR or Mirrorless available at no cost - use that, for the time being: after the course the student will (should) know a lot more about how to spend $1000.00 and how to get a better bang for those 1000 bucks.

WW                 

 

Thanks for all these relevant thoughts. I clarified with him last night. The school owns the Canon he's been using and he'd like to own his own camera. He's both a self-motivated kid and I've known him to pursue various interests he's developed over the years with diligence and purpose. He's in a very small town in New England, so there's not much chance for him to borrow or rent equipment. He's the furthest thing from spoiled and, from what I know of the family, he's likely paying for this out of money he's earned working, yet still would seek and get his parents' approval for a purchase like this. I did mention your suggestion of looking at second-hand cameras, and he will look into that. I've seen him in action at work on his farm with all sorts of tools, gadgets, etc. He's a kid who makes the most of what he's got and I trust that will be the case with any camera he does buy at the moment.

[samstevens]

5 hours ago, rodeo_joe1 said:

The "does well with video" clause is what's making me hesitant to make a camera suggestion, because video can knock things into an entirely different ball park. 

To me, "good video" means at minimum a nice steady shot and decent sound quality - requiring at least an external mic or two, good image stabilisation, or use of a tripod or gyro-gimbal. Those items alone could bust a $1000 budget. Even for basic Vlogging. Because distorted and noisy sound, together with motion-sickness inducing camera waving, will nullify even an 8K picture quality. 

(I couldn't watch the TV series 'NYPD blue' because of its choice of a wobbly handheld camera verite shooting style. And doubtless the cameras used on that series weren't at all cheap.) 

For example: Two cheaper cameras on tripods with a 'wild' sound recording setup can allow for close-up or zoomed cutaway edits, which will give a much more professional and polished look than one expensive handheld camera using its inbuilt mics and with non-edited real time zooming and subsequent focus-hunting.

'Wild' sound presenting no synch issues, given the precision of modern digital timing.

The actual image quality is secondary to the overall audio-visual experience IMO. And since nearly all digital cameras can produce acceptable video image quality these days, it's down to the ancillaries like external mics, tripods and smooth zooming/focussing lenses to make the real difference. But again, it depends on the use-case as to what minimum budget is needed. 

Thanks. It doesn't seem to me like your understanding of good video would necessarily apply to a teenager just starting out, but thanks for the descriptions. Too bad you couldn't watch NYPD Blue, an excellent series. The camerawork didn't bother me in the least. I appreciate your point about the image quality and the ancillaries and will pass that on to him as well.

[Jon Eckman]

In addition to all of these suggestions, he might try calling one of the online photo stores that sell new and used equipment (B&H, etc) - if he finds someone that will really listen to his needs and is able to narrow down the field he could always shop around from there.

[Sandy Vongries]

100% success with Roberts Used Photo Pro.

[mikemorrellNL]

Hi Sam, I don't - with very few exceptions - shoot videos. And if I do, I shoot them on a 10-year old camera. Times have changed a lot since then and most modern cameras have far more advanced video-options.  In general, when trying to find out what recent developments have to offer, I rely on Google.

For example, this link. But there are of course more Google links. One thing I notice with video photographers is that some(sometimes) use a tripod and others (sometimes use a stabilizer/gimbal to stabilize their video recordings. I don't know what your friends' sons' preferences are but IMHO just a 'better camera' won't really cut it for video recordings. He IMHO also needs to think about the kind of situations in which he would like to record video. And factor 'stabilization equipment' (tripod/stabilizer/gimbal) into his budget. My impression is that would be feasible.

Mike

 

 

 

On 2/20/2023 at 10:37 PM, samstevens said:

A friend’s son is taking a photography class and just asked me this question. Does anyone have suggestions? Thanks. 

“I am taking a photo class in school and we use canon rebel t7s. I was thinking about investing in a camera that is good for both photo and video for under $1000. Any recommendations?”

 

[SCL]

Nobody has really mentioned it, but not only a good used camera and lens, but also a tripod should help considerably. Most new users aren't fully aware of inadvertently introducing motion into their photos, don't think of proper bracing of a camera, and not "punching" of the shutter button. Especially when considering video, a good solid foundation can become a critical issue. A Gitzo isn't necessary, but a reasonably stable used tripod may well give him a leg up as he eplores the opportunities for shooting. Reasonable ones often show up in local Goodwill or Salvation Army or other charity/2nd hand shops, often working well and cost less than $30. I've had the good fortune to pick up several over the years which have served me well. Just need a little patience to find a good sturdy one.

[samstevens]

1 minute ago, SCL said:

Nobody has really mentioned it, but not only a good used camera and lens, but also a tripod should help considerably.

To be fair, both used equipment and tripods and stabilization have been mentioned. Thanks for adding to that.