Sadism & the QR Plate

[ericphelps]

Hoping someone here can explain the sadism behind tripods now having what's laughingly called a QR plate. If there were a QR lever on a car door, one could take the car door along into a lunch place or swimming pool - But again, why?

 

And on a tripod it makes the same non-sense; unclippy the QR plate, flip the camera carefully upside down, fiddle with the quarter tool or screwdriver to install the plate, then set the camera down on a table with the QR plate attached and watch it fall over. Then pick up the QR'ed assembly and clip it to the tripod. Shoot a few, then remove from camera & re-clip to tripod - Incredible what people will agree to do.

 

When my experience with and learning about photography began with burned hands from changing flashbulbs for my Father on wedding jobs, one slammed the camera down on the tripod and spun the knurled wheel bolt into the camera - Done! How has the little plastic plate of bitch overcome the ease and readiness of the old tripod mount?

[PapaTango]

My avatar tagline reads "I see things." For all too long in this journey, when I saw things, I had to buy things... :rolleyes:

 

The first experience was with the Manfrotto plate system. It worked great for tripod stuff involving view cameras and the RB67. Then I went off to a sliding clamp/flat slider rail.

 

The really maddening experience came with the small QR plate systems for 35mm and MF. DO NOT BELIEVE THE WEIGHT RATING OF THESE THINGS! As Eric notes, they are klunky, wobbly, and nearly impossible to torque down (in the field) in such a way that they don't spin around on pan action. On and off was not the major perceived problem--with the exception of the camera mount twisting about trying to mount the plate to the receiver.

 

I also thought that the smaller ones would be the bomb for attachments, such as a converted Mamiya side grip, or a flash frame. Again, there is something in the metal and cheap-assed friction pads that work to defy solidity. Finally, I quit fighting all of this rubbish, and all of those small ones are now finding a use for my lightweight vlogging setups. The big plates may be klunky, but they sure get the job done.

 

Now if you want to get me really peeved about something, let's talk about the crappy plastic shoes on the bottom of expensive flash units... :mad:

[Sandy Vongries]

I rarely use tripods, and when I do it is with rather large lenses like the Nikkor ED 600 1:5.6 or 200-500 1:5.6. In those particular cases Manfrotto plates not only facilitate mounting and dismounting from the tripod, but stabilize the lenses when they are placed on a flat surface. Clearly those who use them differently find them less satisfactory.

[John Seaman]

I've always been sceptical about quick release plates, especially as they are often missing from tripods at car boot sales etc, having been left on the camera. I'm now using a Manfrotto tripod which uses the hexagonal plates, for photographing things to sell online, for which I keep one camera specially, with the plate permanently attached.

 

My own experience of sadism in photography (or perhaps masochism?) centres on closing those plastic camera bag clasps which snap together, often trapping my finger painfully in the process.

[Sanford]

I get nervous when I see an expensive camera hanging by a strap attached to the camera tripod mount.

[Robin Smith]

I use QR plates and have done since I first saw one. Keep it on all the time. Much quicker and more sturdy. A well designed one will not twist, unlike a camera screwed onto a tripod screw. My camera can still be set down on a surface and not fall over. I don't use L-brackets.

[JDMvW]

Like Sandy, I'm not a big user of tripods, but when I use my 500mm+ mirror lenses, there's not much alternative.

For the biggest, I mostly use a Manfrotto 323 on an very solid STX (aka "ironboy") tripod. It may not be light, but "solid" is not an exaggeration.

 

 

For slightly lighter long lenses I sometimes use a monopod and Manfrotto 222

 

[Ed_Ingold]

I use Arca-type QR from Really Right Stuff. The plates are form-fitted to the camera, and do not rotate. The attaching screw needs only enough tension to keep it from backing out. The plates are thin enough to stay on the camera, and the beveled design is extremely strong and secure. More important, the attachment does not depend on spring tension.

 

Tripods are not always needed for still shots, particularly with the advent of image stabilization. However they're best used for closeup, and consistency for groups and portraits. Tripods are nearly essential for video, in all but the most casual applications. With video comes the need for attachments, including battery plates, lens support, and gear motors. These rigs need the stiffness only provided by good mounts.

[rodeo_joe1]

Like Sandy, I'm not a big user of tripods, but when I use my 500mm+ mirror lenses, there's not much alternative.

For the biggest, I mostly use a Manfrotto 323 on an very solid STX (aka "ironboy") tripod. It may not be light, but "solid" is not an exaggeration.

 

[ATTACH=full]1430570[/ATTACH]

 

For slightly lighter long lenses I sometimes use a monopod and Manfrotto 222

 

[ATTACH=full]1430572[/ATTACH]

In the words of Crocodile Dundee (almost) - that's not a QR plate, this is a QR plate.

Film box for size comparison.

[JDMvW]

In the words of Crocodile Dundee (almost) - that's not a QR plate.

 

I never said it was. I was merely suggesting other ways of mounting lenses, etc. Papa Tango and Sandy had mentioned Manfrotto and I wandered off from there.

 

I am not now, nor have I ever been a user of anything so weird as a QR plate, not least for reasons made fairly clear in the OP. Not if you paid me...

 

Of course, Rodeo_Joe hardly ever wanders off (?):rolleyes:

Edited June 14, 2022 by JDMvW

[Edwin Barkdoll]

All of my cameras (at least the ones I actually use...) have Arca compatible L-brackets; all my tripod heads have Arca compatible clamps. They are almost always never removed. That is only part of the QR story though. I also Black Rapid straps that I have converted to be Arca compatible, Arca compatible Peak Design camera clips to attack to back pack straps and Arca compatible rail mounts for ultramacro photography.

Without a doubt QR plates decrease my level of frustration with camera mounts.

[Jochen_S]

Photo gear tends to come in "just right" and less wieldy variants and maybe owning a single(!) QR plate isn't the brightest idea ever?

The tripod clamp of my monorail has a thread in its center but I can also drop it into a dedicated Linhof head and tighten a screw to hold it.

For the more contemporary toy cameras I recently acquired a Novoflex QR system. I think I own about half a dozen screws for it, one in each long lens, 2 in the bodies, another pair in the complimentary DSLRs and QR mechanisms on gunstock and ball head. I probably need at least another set to equip monopod MILCs and something else too. No real complaints so far, the screws are quite compact and if I place cameras on tables, they 'll rest on their lens hoods anyhow. How well my camera will stand isn't overly important to me. If I wanted it secure and level I could always glue some shoesole like foam to the base plate. The Novoflex screws are way shorter than Manfrotto hex plates'.

I haven't used Arca / RRS plates yet but already bought a pair of L plates just in case. I ' ll need more for EOS and also a nice carbon fiber tripod someday.

[Ricochetrider]

I use a tripod quite often.

 

I recently bought a “new” (to me) used Gitzo- but still use the El Cheapo head that came on my old far inferior tripod. It has a quick release plate that once VERY quickly UNRELEASED itself, banging my Hasselblad 500cm around when it fell to the ground- smacking up the view finder!

 

Oh and I carry around a set of pliers too to keep it torqued into whatever camera body… well that is to say- DID carry that is, until a few days ago when my pliers were confiscated by airport security in Athens Greece - after many thousands of miles over the years of international and other travel.

[Gary Naka]

A screw mount is just fine, as long as the gear you are putting on the tripod or monopod is not big/bulky/heavy. One it gets beyond that threshold, screwing the gear onto the tripod becomes difficult.

For that kind of stuff, I use the AS clamp system. It is faster and less clumsy to use.

For my 4x5 view camera, I use a Manfrotto hex plate QR plate. MUCH easier (faster and safer) than trying to screw a 4x5 view camera onto the tripod.

On MY gear, the QR plate is KEPT on the gear. So no hassles of removing and installing it.

[rodeo_joe1]

I am not now, nor have I ever been a user of anything so weird as a QR plate..

Then what's that little rectangular thing on top of the Manfrotto 222 weirdness?

[Gary Naka]

The other problem with QR plates are the proprietary ones.

 

If you buy a tripod, and you CANNOT buy replacement plates, you are playing Russian roulette.

If you loose the QR plate, you might as well throw the tripod into the garbage (if you cannot separate the head from the legs), because you can't use the tripod without the QR plate.

Neither can you keep the plate attached to different gear, if you only have that ONE plate.

I put Arca Swiss rails/plates on ALL my gear that I use on the tripod.

My 4x5 view camera uses the large Manfrotto hex plate.

 

If you let someone else use your tripod, there is a very good chance that the tripod will be returned to you without the QR plate.

My local school has had that happen to at least two tripods, maybe/probably more.

I suspect the students who used the tripods, removed their camera from the tripod, leaving the QR plate attached to their camera, and returned the tripod without the QR plate.

• One tripod had a Manfrotto head. I was able to help the teacher buy a replacement QR plate.
   
  
• The other was a Brand-X tripod. No idea how to get a replacement plate. So it became a hunk of useless metal in the corner of the room, cuz the teacher could not bring himself to dump it in the garbage.
  

[rodeo_joe1]

The other problem with QR plates are the proprietary ones.

 

If you buy a tripod, and you CANNOT buy replacement plates, you are playing Russian roulette.

If you loose the QR plate, you might as well throw the tripod into the garbage (if you cannot separate the head from the legs), because you can't use the tripod without the QR plate.

Neither can you keep the plate attached to different gear, if you only have that ONE plate.

I put Arca Swiss rails/plates on ALL my gear that I use on the tripod.

My 4x5 view camera uses the large Manfrotto hex plate.

 

If you let someone else use your tripod, there is a very good chance that the tripod will be returned to you without the QR plate.

My local school has had that happen to at least two tripods, maybe/probably more.

I suspect the students who used the tripods, removed their camera from the tripod, leaving the QR plate attached to their camera, and returned the tripod without the QR plate.

• One tripod had a Manfrotto head. I was able to help the teacher buy a replacement QR plate.
   
  
• The other was a Brand-X tripod. No idea how to get a replacement plate. So it became a hunk of useless metal in the corner of the room, cuz the teacher could not bring himself to dump it in the garbage.
  

Another option is to seek out old tripods or heads from the era before some idiot invented the QR plate. We seem to have muddled through the first 150 or so years after photography's invention without the wretched things.

 

It takes me 15 to 20 seconds to screw a camera down using a simple 1/4" or 3/8" bolt, and at least twice that long to attach a QR plate and fiddle with the man-trap that passes for a QR-plate attachment mechanism. The 'Release' part might be quick, but the attachment part - not so much.

[AJG]

I've been using Manfrotto QR plates for over 20 years and haven't experienced most of the issues that have been mentioned. The real Manfortto plates have a good gripping surface and don't rotate once they are attached properly in my experience. Yesterday I tried to attach a new camera to one of the knock off plates I bought a while ago to try them out and promptly had a heavy camera/lens combination start to tip forward when mounted in a vertical position. I switched back to a genuine Manfrotto plate and the same camera/lens stayed in place with no problems. My 12 pound 4x5 on a Manfrotto hex plate with set screws is perfectly secure on the tripod and sits on a table without tipping or wobbling when it is off a tripod. Are there bad QR systems out there? Absolutely, and I have had the misfortune to work with a few of them at the community college where I teach. My least favorite was a Slik that had a round plastic plate with a poor gripping surface for the camera and never went back to the same place when you took a camera off and put it back on. I can't imagine what that product designer was thinking...

[JDMvW]

Then what's that little rectangular thing on top of the Manfrotto 222 weirdness?

 

Hmmm....

Beats the hell out of me. It's jist da plate what came wit da 222.o_O

Edited June 16, 2022 by JDMvW

[JDMvW]

Manfrotto 222 weirdness?

 

By the way, if you're not careful I'll do a post on the felicitous combination of a monopod and a vertical pistol-grip (Manfrotto 222). That's a threat, not a promise.

[Ed_Ingold]

I recall the Slik "hockey puck" plate you screwed into the camera. It was a good idea, simple to use, unless you tilted the camera on its side. One of many fails.

 

I take tripods seriously, and demand the attachments be secure in all directions. I may have four (or more) cameras in play for a live-stream event, with a tripod for each. That's why I use Arca-type QR exclusively. Video is special, because you need considerable fore-aft adjustment in order to balance the load. In that case, I usually attach an RRS clamp to the proprietary base plate, and an Arca plate to the camera itself. A built-up FS5 or FS7 can easily exceed 22 lbs, for which the Arca system works perfectly well.

 

Anyone who has had to turn the camera on its side for a vertical shot knows that the weight of the lens usually causes the camera to rotate on its attaching screw. Tightening, to the point of structural damage, is to no avail. View and video cameras are seldom tilted to the side, but holding power of the tilt control is often limiting. It takes a sturdy head to hold an 11 lb view camera (Sinar X) at as little as a 30 degree tilt.

 

A good tripod and head will probably cost as much as the most expensive lens in your kit. If not you are probably not that serious about it, or you will be shopping soon for something that works.

[Gary Naka]

What I really like about the Manfrotto hex plate on my 4x5, and why I use it, is . . .

I just place the hex plate (on the bottom of the view camera), onto the head and lower the view camera (holding it with two hands).

The head automatically clamps onto the hex plate, so I don't need a third hand to secure the plate.

 

A press camera is easier to handle with one hand vs. a monorail.

[DavidTriplett]

I'm with @Edwin Barkdoll: The first thing I buy for any new camera body is the matching RRS L-bracket. I also have RRS plates on my big lens' feet, with RRS QR clamps on my tripods. This is as close to a super-reliable and bulletproof combination as I can imagine. Easy to use and I have yet to experience any kind of failure whatsoever. Plus, these plates/brackets mate perfectly with the built-in clamp on my new Peak Designs travel tripod, without the need for the weight and bulk of an additional head or clamps. (PS: The L-bracket solves the PD's problems with transition to portrait orientation, which is the only issue I've seen with the PD tripod.) Edited June 17, 2022 by DavidTriplett

[rodeo_joe1]

By the way, if you're not careful I'll do a post on the felicitous combination of a monopod and a vertical pistol-grip (Manfrotto 222). That's a threat, not a promise.

Go ahead JD. Make excuses for its existence.

I bought a used tripod a few years back with one of those 222 contraptions attached. The guy that sold me the tripod said he would charge me £10 more if I didn't take the 222 with the tripod.:eek:

However, I have to admit that the only place it makes any sense at all is atop a monopod.... but even then it's still weird.

 

And I can see no excuse at all for piddling little QR plates only a few centimetres square that simply form a small, clumsy and inconvenient lump on the bottom of a camera when not in use on a tripod. The plate is still held in place by a 1/4" bolt, with all the same disadvantages of using that bolt to directly attach the camera to the tripod head. Except you now have one more decoupling between the tripod legs and the camera - which makes no engineering sense whatsoever.

[Tony Parsons]

All my tripods (and monopod) have a Manfrotto 804RC2 3-Way Tripod Head attached - my Leica scope, K3 body, K20d body, 150-500 lens and 500mm mirror lens each have the associated 200PL plate attached (and the screws tightened before each outing). Thus, when birding, I can rapidly swap the scope for the 150-500 lens, attach the camera body and (hopefully) be able to photograph the bird(s) I have seen. I also have a focus rail for macro use, which has a plate beneath for attachment to the tripod, and a compatible Q/R adapter atop, for attaching the camera.

 

I agree about the flimsy plastic plates - unfortunately, my Cullman table-top / shoulder pod has this, but I have bolted a Manfrotto 234RC Monopod head directly to the actual pod, which takes the aforementioned 200PL plate, to assist in 'hand-holding' the 150-500 when used as a shoulder pod (though not in militarily sensitive areas!), somewhat akin to the old Zenit 'Photo Sniper' set-up. Never had an issue with the plate on the camera causing it to topple over - I merely lay the camera on its side, as if I were changing the SD card.