Flat Negatives

[mal_thomas]

<p>The image below is cropped from the 35mm neg. <br>

Scanned at 3600 with no pre-processing or adjustments by the scanner (Canoscan 9000F MkII)<br>

<img src="webkit-fake-url://e526374b-f024-4ccf-a691-1fdfa283859f/image.tiff" alt="" /><br>

There was no post processing - this is the neg straight off the scanner.</p>

<ul>

<li>Film is HP5+</li>

<li>Developed with 1:4 Ilford DD-X at 6m 30s at 24C/75F</li>

<li>Continuous rotation in Rondinax 35U daylight tank</li>

<li>Stopped with 1:19 Ilfostop at 20secs at 24C</li>

<li>Fixed with 1:4 Ilford Hypam at 4m 00secs at 24C</li>

<li>Washed 8 mins running tap.</li>

<li>Ilfotol Rinse 1:200 @ 30secs</li>

<li>Camera Nikon F55 in Aperture Priority mode; Auto Focus </li>

<li>Lens AF Nikkor 20mm 1:2.8 D</li>

</ul>

<p>Now, apart from the focus looking a bit dodgy - the tonality of the image to me looks very flat, but with 'ok' blacks in the shadows. Something is wrong with my processing or something.<br>

Ideas, slaps, suggestions all will be appreciated.<br>

Am going to have a play with various scanner settings, but was hoping to avoid using these.<br>

Cheers<br>

Mal<br>

Oz</p>

 

[peterbcarter]

<p>no image</p>

[mal_thomas]

<p>Huh ?? I can see it..after second line of text ... what have I done...?</p><div></div>

[SCL]

<p>I think it is in the scanning/post processing if the negative itself is ok. I did a quick levels and sharpening adjustment in my pp program and it looked fine for what appears to be an image of basically flat tonality without much in the way of shadows on a dull day.</p>

[bruce_watson1]

<p>It's "flat" for at least two reasons. One is the very flat lighting. That was a choice you made for whatever reason.</p>

<p>The other is the scanning, where you've compressed the highlights down into the three quarter tone values. Pull the image into a photoeditor like photoshop and look at the histogram. You aren't going to see any values on the highlight end. So... either learn how to properly set your shadows and highlights in your scanning software, or get scanning software that will let you control shadows and highlights better. That is, some software treats all film the same (and you can't really change it), and B&W film has a much lower density range than either color negative or transparency films. If you treat B&W as if it's color negative, this is about what it looks like. Just sayin'.</p>

[peterbcarter]

<p>What Bruce said......and more.</p>

<p>Colour photos are about the colour, B&W is about the shadows and textures. Shadows......well you barely have any. My guess you shot near noon where the sun is directly over head (look at the shadows on the bottom floor of the building) and it probably was a cloudy day; = death to B&W photos.</p>

<p>Out of the camera into the chemistry, it looks like nothing was done wrong. In front of the lens, wait for a better time or start getting used to using filters to compensate. A polarizer might have helped the shot above.</p>

[glen_h]

<blockquote>

<p>B&W film has a much lower density range than either color negative or transparency films<br>

</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Color negative film has a gamma about half what is usual for black and white film. Color printing (or scanning) has to undo that. This means that color printing is especially sensitive to correct exposure, pretty much requiring an exposure meter or test print. Among others, this gives color negative film the exposure latitude needed for simple cameras. </p>

[mal_thomas]

<p>Great feedback, much appreciated. I think I might have miscommunicated my query though, my apologies.<br />I know how to fix the 'flatness' of the image with the scanner/ post software. What I was hoping for was to get a better negative in the first place.</p>

<p>Someone mentioned lightning.... yes, it was around 1pm and the sun up very high off the right of the image (North). I am facing due West. It is hard to get the sun lower in the sky at this time of year in that spot as there is only about a 80 yard gap between the building I was standing on and the subject building. Much earlier or later in day then the whole plaza is in dark shadow. If I come back at a different time of year when the sun is lower in the sky, then the water fountains are off as its too cold and the people are missing :-) ..but this has given me something to ponder indeed, so thanks for that.</p>

<p>Some said the neg/chemistry itself was fine, so am I expecting too much from my negs/chemistry and I just need to get used to making adjustments during the scanning or post processing ?</p>

<p>Have attached the full neg with some post tweaks...looks much better...<br>

Thanks again.<br />Cheers<br />Mal<br />Oz</p><div></div>

[Aoresteen]

<p>I would use a Yellow 2 (K2) or a Yellow 12 filter and re-take the photo.</p>

<p>You would get a darker sky.</p>

[mal_thomas]

Indeed.....but don't have the correct size for that lens........yet :-))

 

 

 

Thanks

Mal

Oz

[peterbcarter]

<p>Mal, you will start seeing these things automatically as time goes on. Generally, before 10am and after 3pm are the best times to shoot outside for good lighting. For example if you shot people close up on that day / time, you would have seen those people with black eyes as the shadows of the eye sockets would have prevented any light from getting into the eyes. Architecture is an exception where you want to keep the sun high. When you at your photo, it shows great detail of the building and courtyard.</p>

<p>Stuff to think about when wandering with a camera.</p>

<p> </p>