What Canon design engineers do behind your back.

[fotolopithecus]

<p>You know it's a well known fact that the sensors in Nikon DSLR's are better than the ones in Canon DSLR's. To that point for whatever reason, Canon apparently insists on making their own sensors while Nikon mostly buys from Sony, and in the case of the D7100 from Toshiba.<br>

Deep within the Canon corporate camera making power structure is a disgruntled camera making design engineer, who's been telling the Brass to buy Sony sensors to make cameras like the 7DMKll. Well they haven't been listening to him, which is a shame because a 7DMKll with a Sony or Toshiba sensor would be da bomb without a doubt.<br>

Here's the inside story though. That disgruntled SOB has made a Canon 7dMKll using a Sony sensor just for himself, and has plans to make a second using a Toshiba sensor. His 7DMKll has incredible dynamic range, and really low noise levels making his 7DMKll the best cropped sensor camera in the world.<br>

Anybody know who this miserable SOB is because I want him to make one for me. ;) ;)</p>

[JosvanEekelen]

<p>I always preferred the Canon rumors to the Nikon ones.</p>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>Bruce! with all due respect the Canon 7dMkII is a very successful camera. In 1939 Canon bought Nikkor lenses for their cameras. In the 60's, 70's and 80's I don't think Canon lenses were as good as Nikkors.<br>

That's not the situation today isn't it? Because Canon has long learned to make their own lenses. Outsourcing parts then you never learn. Also as a Nikon fan I don't think Nikon has the lead. </p>

[fotolopithecus]

<p>Take a look at dxomark BeBu, if nothing else Nikon has the lead in the sensors they use.</p>

[famico]

<p>Canon versus Nikon, Ford versus Chevy, rye versus scotch, ale versus porter...<br>

<br /> My brain hurts. Think I'll relax now and go take some pictures. ;-)</p>

[andylynn]

It might be interesting to see such a thing, but I don't believe this story. It would be a huge engineering task to do this. You

couldn't just swap out one part - you'd need a whole new complicated set of hardware and software. Not to mention a

new mounting assembly. Sony APSC sensors are larger than Canon ones.

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>dxomark</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

I shoot with other pros a lot, I am often in situations with a fair number of shooters besides myself. I have never once heard anyone reference dxomark, it seems to be something designed to give web forum dwellers something to talk about. I've never even heard the pros I shoot with debate sensors, the discussion is always about what it takes to get great photos, and for some reason, whether they shoot Nikon, Canon, Sony, Fuji.</p>

[fotolopithecus]

<p>Fair enough, but I'm still interested in camera sensors whether Pro's are or not. ;)</p>

[CvhKaar]

<p>Bruce, two things...</p>

<p>If you call someone ( an engineer in this case who probavly knows a lot more than you do) an SOB, then what are you calling his mother ( whom you probably do not know at all) ? <br /> Right, it is not very nice to call a woman by that name... ? ;-)</p>

<p>Secondly : Having been watching this afternoon an important ( for the Netherlands) sports event live again, I've noticed, again, that most professional sports reporters at these events seem to shoot Canon, and not sony or Nikon or Fuji, for some reason. That tells me that Canon also must produce very good camera's , otherwise those guys , who are not limited by any budget for ther tools, would certainly choose different tools ( camera's and lenses) to do their jobs with...</p>

<p>Don't get me wrong, i've been a Nikon fan for many years now ( over 30 years), and i still like Nikon a lot, but that does not make them the only good brand available...</p>

[fotolopithecus]

<p>Ah, well here's the thing. The reason I'm so excited by the prospect of a Sony sensor in a Canon DSLR is precisely because Canon, and Nikon cameras have different strengths. I was not, and am not saying Nikon cameras are better than Canon cameras. It depends on what's most important to you. For me it's IQ, not auto-focus, or buffer size, etc, etc. In my opinion the fact that Nikon uses better sensors than Canon is very clear. To that point, anyone who's been paying attention to the complaints on Canon forums knows it. That's why the best camera would be a combination of the two from my point of view.<br>

I also happen to think Canon's quality control is far better than Nikon's. Am I now going to get a group of folks telling me they never met a Pro who gives a damn about quality control? Probably. ;)</p>

[dcstep]

<p>Bruce, the Canon 7D MkII and the 1D X are designed for people that need fast, accurate and consistent AF and fast shutter speed. If you need none of those, then why aren't you shooting Medium-format? Hasselblad make some sensors with much higher IQ than the Sony sensors.</p>

<p>Sony doesn't make a sensor that wouldn't constrain the 7D MkII from doing the things that draw photographers to that camera.</p>

[fotolopithecus]

<p>Everything's relative no? I don't shoot medium-format because of the cost, weight, and size. If I shoot DX, and I do, I want the highest IQ I can get from that format. As you noted I don't need fast accurate AF among other things, because of the sorts of things I shoot. In fact I focus manually most often, and on a tripod.<br>

Hasselblad has higher IQ because it's sensor is much larger, not because it's better than a Sony Exmor. In fact it's inferior, but for it's larger size. All this gets off the point I'm making which few seem to be grasping. It's not that Nikon cameras are better than Canon. The point is that it would be nice to have a camera with the IQ of a Nikon in a Canon 7DMKll body. I'm not sure what I can say to make it any more clear without having straw man arguments being made against what I've never said. ;)</p>

[dcstep]

<p>Bruce, you make excuses, but you still declare Sony "better". You seem blind weaknesses; too small, too big, two dense, not dense enough. There's no one best. It depend on how the sensor will be used. You dismiss AF as an important issue. Clearly, you've never shot birds or wildlife, where it's critical. All the resolution in the world is worthless if the eye is OOF. </p>

[fotolopithecus]

<p>David you should never argue with me about what I think, since I'm the worlds foremost authority on what I think. ;)</p>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p><em>Sony doesn't make a sensor that wouldn't constrain the 7D MkII from doing the things that draw photographers to that camera.</em></p>

<p>Which constraints do Sony sensors impose on a camera for still photography? The Canon sensor in the 7D Mark II supports dual pixel AF but that method can only be used during live view and video; it is not used for regular still photography when the optical viewfinder is in use since the main imaging sensor is blocked from light by the main mirror (and shutter). While I think dual pixel AF is a useful technology for video, and perhaps for future mirrorless cameras, it is not really relevant to still photography of action, which I believe to be the main interest in the 7D Mark II. For action you use the more traditional DSLR AF system which takes information from the dedicated AF sensor and the exposure meter which produces a low resolution image that can be used for subject identification and tracking in conjunction with the AF sensor. This AF system is impressive but it's independent of the main imaging sensor so from that point of view Canon could use any sensor they chose.</p>

<p>I'm sure there are advantages to in house sensor development (Nikon does that too, but they do not restrict their choices to their own designs and collaborate with a number of sensor manufacturers) but in recent years Canon's designs have been widely criticized for not being competitive regarding image quality especially towards the lower end of the ISO range. Personally I don't think it is a good idea if all manufacturers started to use Sony sensors as then competition would cease and Sony could raise prices without the camera manufacturers having leverage to negotiate. By using Nikon's own designs, as well as Sony's, Toshiba's and Aptina's sensors Nikon is in a good position to negotiate the best deals since each manufacturer knows they're not the only game in town. I am happy that they don't get locked in with just one manufacturer of sensors or other components for that matter.</p>

<p>Nikon AF works well and is constantly evolving; the D810 I use I've been very happy with even though I use it a lot of the time at wide apertures (f/1.4, f/2 etc.). Not every image is going to be in focus in low light action at f/1.4 but it gives a good percentage of keepers, properly adjusted, and if working at a smaller aperture such as f/4, an out of focus image is rare. It is not that difficult to take advantage of the high resolution of the sensor, I use it all the time allowing a wider range of distances at which I can capture images of high image quality when working with primes, for example, as well as in landscape photography. The D750's AF system has been highly commended in many reviews (e.g. dpreview, compare with comments they make on 7D Mark II AF) and by many users as well. Both Nikon and Canon have had their problems when it comes to AF consistency and neither is immune to occasional issues, if you talk to users they have stories to tell, but that's just the nature of DSLR AF, it requires precision manufacturing, assembly, and calibration, to work its best. As for which cameras you see at sports events, well, it depends very much on where you go; Nikons are very common too. Canon has some advantage in telephoto lenses with a broader selection and more lightweight lenses. The investment in such lenses is sufficient deterrent from frequent switching between brands. Most photojournalists nowadays are working freelance since most staff positions have been terminated and freelance photographers as a rule have to buy their own equipment. It is a low income profession and it is silly to suggest that professional photographers can buy whatever equipment they want. Most of them are on a tight rope these days.</p>

<p>But I agree with Jeff that this kind of minutia (about sensor characteristics etc.) are not really important to photography in the real world and its signficance is exaggerated on the internet, along with many other "problems". People should go out and make more images - they might find it enjoyable.</p>

[fotolopithecus]

<p>Ilkka, I've read what you said, and found nothing I disagree with. I just can't help myself because I love minutia, and taking pictures. ;) ;) Bruce</p>

[fotolopithecus]

<p><a href="http://thenewcamera.com/category/nikon-rumors/">http://thenewcamera.com/category/nikon-rumors/</a> Interesting, just came across this today.</p>

[dcstep]

<p> Ilkka, you make some nice points and I think that the best is that we're talking about imaging "systems" not just camera bodies that we're going to compare based on one parameter, as Bruce would suggest. His criteria seems to be limited to IQ at some particular ISO in which he evidently operates. Good for him. What's good for him might be good for many users.</p>

<p>Mean while, us poor, abused Canon users will have to make do with sensors that only produce stunning prints up to 60" in a wide variety of situations.</p>

[fotolopithecus]

<p>David, you are correct in that for my kind of shooting everything is relatively secondary to IQ, but then I don't do sports, or wildlife photography. It is not my intention to denigrate Canon cameras, and as a matter of fact I owned and loved shooting with a Canon 40D at one time. I also owned, and loved Canon film cameras back in the day. My op was not even intended to be taken seriously, I thought it might stimulate some funny conversation.</p>

[jack flannery]

<p><br />Apparently not.</p>

[Aoresteen]

<p>The best senors are in Olympus cameras..... I don't need a Canon or Nikon camera :)</p>

[dcstep]

<p>LOL Anthony.</p>

[ArthurRichardson]

<p>duh</p>

[dave_wilson1]

D7100 is my favorite camera, I use two for almost everything. I didn't know it had a Toshiba sensor. That's interesting to

know fwiw. Thanks.

[JDMvW]

<blockquote>

<p>You know it's a well known fact that the sensors in Nikon DSLR's are better than the ones in Canon DSLR's.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>And this forum is worried about Hypnoken site links, however disguised !</p>

<p>ROFL</p>