Odd (but typical) that Nikon would do this.

[stephen t]

<p>Thankfully, I never had to take advantage of any of my Nikon warranties, nor Canon's. I use both systems regularly in addition to my medium and large format cameras. <br>

Canon was named originally after the Buddhist Goddess of Mercy. Wouldn't hurt to spread some of that around nowadays, would it?</p>

[michael_bradtke]

<p>Rick<br>

Are you a member of NPS? I am and I have not had the problems you are talking about. Every DSLR I have owned except for the D4 has gone back to Nikon at least once. But then I use my gear hard. Normal turn around time in my experience is a week. Being an NPS member I can request to have my gear back by a particular date.</p>

<p>Did the Canon rep bother to tell you that CPS is a paid service? My friends who are CPS members tell me that the turn around time is never any shorter then 4 business days.</p>

[michael_bradtke]

<p>Oh wait I remember asking you before if you where a member of NPS and you never bothered to answer. So I would guess that is a no. How is it that as a working PJ you have not taken advantage of NPS?</p>

[rick_m.]

<p>NPS. Interesting you should mention that. I am not qualified for NPS. Why? Because I own an advertising business in additional to my photography business. When requesting membership Nikon told me that to be qualified I must be acting as a professional photographer full time and not participate in any other businesses. It does not matter that my photos are continuously published and have been for a very long time now. </p>

<p>When I was staff on a newspaper there was no reason to belong as my equipment was maintained by the paper through a maintenance contract with a repair facility. I was very pleased not to long ago with Nikon's service on my own equipment and have said so. </p>

<p>It is interesting to me that so many people here are so protective of their company of choice that they are willing to try any number of ways to blame me for my experiences. The fault, it appears, lies with trying to post them on the Nikon forum. Clearly the moderator thinks it is my fault that Nikon made a serious mistake. (Which I linked to for all to see by the way.) His solution, rather than to ask Nikon for good service, is to bail on tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment and years of familiarity with that equipment and go to Canon. This is a poor recommendation and very rude. </p>

<p>So the message is, 'don't come here complaining about Nikon. This forum is for fan-boys'. </p>

<p>I will leave it at that. It is time to not renew my subscription anyway. Yet another poster run off by the moderators. </p>

<p> </p>

[chip_chipowski]

<blockquote>

<p>Me: Your website says 6 years.<br>

REP: I am terribly sorry. That is an obvious mistake on our part. Thank you for bringing that to our attention. I will tell the appropriate people so they can fix it. Please consult your warranty card for the correct information. I am sorry for the confusion. Is there anything else I can help you with today? Thanks for being a loyal Nikon customer.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Rick, I agree - the wording in your link is confusing. If I see one year warranty and 5 year extension, I would think they refer to a 6 year warranty. However, you seem to be so certain in your interpretation. Does Nikon ever actually explicitly state "6 years?" </p>

[ShunCheung]

<blockquote>

<p>It is interesting to me that so many people here are so protective of their company of choice that they are willing to try any number of ways to blame me for my experiences. The fault, it appears, lies with trying to post them on the Nikon forum. Clearly the moderator thinks it is my fault that Nikon made a serious mistake. (Which I linked to for all to see by the way.) His solution, rather than to ask Nikon for good service, is to bail on tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment and years of familiarity with that equipment and go to Canon. This is a poor recommendation and very rude.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Rick, I'll remind you once again this was what you wrote earlier, on this very thread:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>All I need do is swap this whole mess of Nikon equipment that I have for Canon;) Tempting I have to say.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, I agree that Nikon USA's web site is unclear about the 1+4 years of warranty on lenses, and I am going to write to my contacts over there and ask them to clarify that and perhaps improve it. That is all I can do; whether they act on it or not is something beyond my control. And I have no problem linking all the discussion on this thread for them to review.</p>

<p>I too am merely a Nikon customer, also for close to 40 years. However, I don't work for Nikon and don't receive a penny from them. Therefore, I have no problem suggesting people to move over to Canon or stay with Canon and not move to Nikon if I think that is to their benefit. For example, <a href="/photodb/user?user_id=67577">Michael Dougherty</a> has wanted some "D400" multiple times, and I have been telling him in many occasions that if the 7D Mark II meets his needs, go ahead and get one. Waiting for this "D400" is merely a waste of time and will only lead to disappointments because I firmly believe that is not going to happen.</p>

<p>Rick, as I said a few times already, you owe it to yourself to try Canon, especially since you think so highly of them. If it works out great and you enjoy their equipment and service, wonderful. If not, maybe you'll get a better perspective that perhaps Nikon is not as bad as you think (and many naysayers have been saying), or Nikon would have gone out of business a long time ago. In fact, I would have switched already. If nobody has told you before, I think it is fair to say that Rick you are a very demanding customer who is hard to please. Whether you yourself is partly responsible for so much unhappiness and complaint is up to you to judge.</p>

<p>And just because you may switch to another brand some day, nothing prevents you from continue to post to this Nikon Forum and complain about Nikon. For example, <a href="/photodb/user?user_id=2196965">Peter Hamm</a>, whom I nominated to be a photo.net hero a few years ago, has switched to Olympus 4/3, but Peter still posts here regularly. Many who no longer use Nikon equipment still post here; some have never used Nikon equipment. Being a current Nikon user is by no means a requirement for participation.</p>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>I bought my 20mm f/2.8 AF-D which is a store demo but I got the full warranty 1+4 year. I sent it in for repair in year 4 and had no problem with Nikon. They fixed it no question asked. </p>

[johncrosley]

<p>From what I wrote above about Nikon USA's West Coast repair, one might assume I'm a big fan.</p>

<p>I am.</p>

<p>But I'm an extremely difficult customer to please.</p>

<p>When treated badly or with disdain, I know how to complain loudly and long. I know how to tell other people of bad experiences, and I sometimes do in a way that costs that company money.</p>

<p>But incumbent with telling others of bad, rude, or incompetent service or encounters with those who represent companies, such as Nikon (or perhaps a cable company), in my view comes a personal view that it is important to tell people who give outstanding service that they are giving good service, and acknowledge it.</p>

<p>It's sort of karmic in a way, as little as I believe in that. It's just fair play.</p>

<p>People who only complain are 'cranks', but those who just spent a half hour waiting to praise a phone worker to his boss and then makes another call and gets treated like dirt, has something to say to the worker who treats him like dirt -- or to that person's boss. It's 'I'm not a crank, and here's proof', telling the story of why not.</p>

<p>You can't criticize all bad things people do and never reward those who do an excellent job as though it's just the way things are normally --- there's too much lousy service out there not to give encouragement when someone gives you good service.</p>

<p>Nikon USA, West Coast Repair has consistently given me good service, otherwise, you'd be reading something different entirely.</p>

<p>When I get outstanding service, I will often tell the person to mark the time on their tape (most such calls to customer service centers are tape recorded 'for training purposes') so when they ask for a raise, or are criticized, they can point to one very demanding customer they treated well and with respect. 'Just mark the time, date and write it down, and maybe pass it to your boss. 'I'm very demanding and don't suffer fools lightly, but you gave me outstanding service, and deserve to be told that and have your boss know," I might say.</p>

<p>I've been known to wait 20 minutes just to talk to a boss about some excellent employee's good work, even if it didn't result in some special favor to me, but was in some way superior.</p>

<p>I feel I earn the right to complain and complain and be listened to when I do, and not be labeled a 'crank'.</p>

<p>When I am treated with disdain, miserably, or my needs are wantonly ignored or disregarded BY SOMEONE WHO OBVIOUSLY SHOULD KNOW BETTER, NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST STUPID, I can bellow with the loudest, and be the first to call for a supervisor, and instead of complaining loudly and long to the supervisor I just explain quietly to the supervisor as a fellow human being (if given the chance) that I know what kind of a position a supervisor is in, and that the person I dealt with may (in that instance) be a 'problem' and suggest they 'listen to the tape' to verify my description of my problem before taking action. I often tell them if they apologize quickly, 'Don't trust my version, listen to the conversation yourself, and then make up your mind,' knowing of course that the employee has cooked his/her own goose in treating me badly.</p>

<p>I know for a fact at least one employees of Social Security have been fired after giving me a hard time, and at least one or two have been 'retrained', though such information is supposed to be 'secret'. 'Word' got to me anyway, though I've forgotten how. </p>

<p>Bosses (most of them), want to give good service, but some don't give a damn, and if an appeal to them doesn't work, then you have a choice whether to deal with that entity - if indeed there is any choice.</p>

<p>With the US government there often is no choice, but Congressmen are there for making your complaints and giving them weight. In one instance, powerless after a turndown and a bad decision, I made an inquiry/complaint on behalf of an immigrant friend through a Congressman and the INS regional director, and later when that person and I arrived at the local INS field office for a 'hearing' it took place in three minutes. </p>

<p>We were told the 'pink folder' around that person's file meant 'Congressional interest' and that basically guaranteed a favorable outcome and that we were treated with greatest deference and politesse. Nobody else in that office got so much as the time of day, but we got treated like royalty and were done with our business, in and out, in less then 15 minutes, though my friend did have to wait with others the morning in the waiting room to be called.</p>

<p>I learned from that experience that even the US government can be 'got to' in certain instances when one has a complaint or needs assistance and when the people in charge of giving satisfaction are giving you the middle finger.</p>

<p>Not everyone wants to help, but a certain number of those charged with aiding you rankle when you or anyone seeking their help starts off with an obvious 'attitude', so even when 'escalating' a problem from a bad or obstinate worker to a supervisor, I always try to establish some accord or rapport with the supervisor before describing the problem, and appeal politely to the supervisor's reason. </p>

<p>People react instinctively to attacks they feel in others' voices and manners even if not directed at them, and the same is true if the 'attack' they feel is directed at their employer if they are loyal employees. </p>

<p>It's just human nature.</p>

<p>If you treat most people well, you often get good treatment in return.</p>

<p>Some companies thrive in giving bad treatment in order to satisfy 'goals' such as for 'keeping call times' short,' or 'not giving refunds, no matter what the advertised policy' and so on, and I have little patience for such things. </p>

<p>When I recognize someone trying to 'dump' a call or duck an issue without trying to resolve it, I emphatically refuse to let them. It helps I practiced law for nearly two decades over a quarter century ago.</p>

<p>In dealing with Nikon's West Coast Repair facility (before their recent move), I had one or more run-ins, with them, but we reached accord. We shook hands as they recognized I was a good customer, and they were in the business to please their customers. </p>

<p>In turn, I tried my very best to behave well; I was a frequent visitor at one time, and it would have been counterintuitive to be otherwise. I always moved aside for the busier customers, so I would have time to speak throoughly to them about my equipment's problems when it was complex, for instance, and thus never kept any line waiting. In return I got superior service, always.</p>

<p>Nikon West Coast repair tried hard to earn my trust by doing their job well.</p>

<p>They did that, and in doing so, they earned my respect; my participation in this thread is 'payback' they know nothing of but they earned it.</p>

<p>I can still yell at the cable company or the mindless computer techs in India, Philippines or elsewhere who start every conversation with a 'script' that assumes I'm an 'idiot' and maybe starts with the words 'Is Your computer plugged in? even though I just told them I was reading messages on the screen. </p>

<p>Yes, my blood boils, and I ask for a supervisor.</p>

<p>I learned one thing in a long life. </p>

<p>People often like to please other people; if they like you, they'll often go out of their way to help you, even if it means they take a chance. It's not always so, but as a rule of thumb in the USA particularly, it's a good practice. It may not work in certain other countries I won't name, but in the USA, it's yielded me excellent results over a lifetime. Attacking others armed with an attitude generally, though has resulted in poor results.</p>

<p>[i once was kind to an airline 'sales' executive (now retired or dead), and without even knowing the guy or even what state his office was in, for a decade and a half, he got into my flight records and upgraded me to business or first class for each flight I took, though I was traveling on absolutely the cheapest fare.<br>

We never had more than two or three conversations, but he took care of upgrading me until he left the company when he retired and the mechanics of doing it were automatically handled through his secretary</p>

<p>This was all because of some nice words I once said in a conversation with him long ago, in reward for my 'pleasant manner'. So, on the absolute cheapest fare, I found you can drink a bottle of (complimentary) Dom Perignon slowly and get sober on the way to the equator, and do it again the rest of the way on the long journey before landing in Sydney all while luxuriating in a First Class seat that sold for $8,000 I bought for $600. (I don't drink at all generally, but I do like Dom Perignon).</p>

<p>Sometimes it's not 'bad service', it's the customer.</p>

<p>Good customers have a way of finding that even 'problem companies' can give good treatment sometimes, and good companies can give outstanding treatment at times from time to time.</p>

<p>john</p>

<p>John (Crosley)</p>

[5711]

<p>i wish i had some real problems..<br /> well i do..i lost a camera, a lens and a tripod last weekend.<br /> i will put all the pieces in a box, send it to nikon and ask them to replace my d3 with a d4s.<br /> if they don't i'll go on a nerdrage campain on some internet forum.</p>

<p>other than that, do you also scream at people behind the counter if your hotdog isn't how you expected it to be?</p>

<p>for using nikon that long, you must be old.<br /> how come you have such a temper, rick.</p>

<p>chill, dude</p>

<p> </p>

[mike_halliwell]

<blockquote>

<p>i lost a camera, a lens and a tripod last weekend.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Well at least you found them again....:-)</p>

<p> </p>

[5711]

<p>:)<br /> good one. i laughed.<br /> don't know why though,..well..i didnt go down that cliff too, so i call it a win.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<blockquote>

<p>for using nikon that long, you must be old.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>So Norbert, I am "old" also? Do you know I started using Nikon when I was 3 years old? :-)</p>

<p>When I was younger, I was very much a perfectionist, and to some degree I still am. But gradually, I do notice that it is very time consuming to find and fix every little typo, get everything absolutely right .... Perhaps I am much better off using my time differently.</p>

<p>However, in this case, I agree it is not a small typo. Any confusion about the exact length of the warranty should be corrected. As promised, below is part of my e-mail to Nikon, referencing this thread. In other words, Nikon may read what everybody posts to this thread, including mine.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>

Since I am very familiar with the 1+4 warranty and am pre-conditioned to it, it took me a while to figure out the complaint.</p>

<P>

According to this web page: <a href="https://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16192/%7E/nikon-warranty-and-product-registration" target="_blank">https://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16192/~/nikon-warranty-and-product-registration</a>,

for Nikkor lenses, the standard warranty is one year, and there is a 5-year extension, which would have made it 1+5 = 6 years total.

</P>

<P>

Perhaps that page can be improved to eliminate any ambiguity.

</P>

</blockquote>

<p>And attached is a screen capture of the current page for the record.</p><div></div>

[marypar4]

<p>I have had great luck with my lenses and cameras. Always honored the 5 year warrenty and in fact fixed a D7000 out of warrenty once..the live view button was broken and had been fixed once so they reparied it again for me out of warrenty. Love Nikon.</p>

[Rick Waller]

<p>RickM - I am not a moderator, I do not personally know Shun and I am not a Nikon fan boy. I have been a Nikon shooter for 45 years and I am an NPS member. My exepriences with Nikon service has nothing to do with this thread. I am not here to defend or criticize.<br>

I have to tell you that your continuous rant about Nikon is growing real old. Whether Nikon service is good or bad is totally irrelevant to this conversation. It is one thing to write a post explaining your Nikon serviceexperiences (good or bad) so that others may be made aware of what happens in the real world. This is what the forum is for. It is quite another to go on a crusade to insist that "Nikon Is Bad" and to stamp your feet and denigrate anyone who dares to disagree with your conclusion. <br>

You come across as fanatical with your expressions of deep seeded hatred for Nikon and apparently you will not be satisfied until everyone else in the forum affirms that you are right. Suggesting that you should perhaps switch to Canon is not tolerated by you. Shun may be constrained by position as moderator and therefore "pulling his punches" in his replies, but I am not burdened with that handicap. <br>

I can tell you that this continuous rant is becoming completely obnoxious and serves little purpose on this forum. I repeat that has nothing to do with a review of Nikon service. Some have had terrible experiences, others have had satisfactory ones. You threaten that you will not be renewing your Photo.net subscription as a result of the perceived insult. I doubt anyone will care if you take your soapbox to another locale.<br /> Give it a rest.</p>

[chip_chipowski]

<p>Wow John, I would hate to be in line behind you at the DMV. Jeez.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Folks, please give this topic a rest. I'll try to follow up with Nikon. Will keep everybody posted.</p>

[rick_m.]

<p>Eric. Frankly your personal attack is just childish. I posted what happened. Nothing more. I affirmed how much I appreciate Nikon time and again. But I dared criticize something that they did. That annoys you. Too bad.</p>

<p>It would appear that Shun also agrees that Nikon should fix this problem. He and I seem to be the only ones here who care enough about Nikon to try and make it better. </p>

<p>Just exactly who on this forum have I "denigrated"? At worst I suggested that Nikon work to improve their customer service. No doubt Shun has access to people we mere mortals do not have access too. He thought enough of this error to write to them. But for calling attention to it and the off-handed way the call center handled it I am all of a sudden being unfair to Nikon. </p>

<p>Thank you Shun for bringing this to Nikon's attention. You did them a favor whether they believe it or not. </p>

<p>But you all get your wish. I will drop this. There is no place here for criticism of any of the manufacturers. I see that. I like to participate in discussions that are candid and sometime controversial. This is no place for that.</p>

 

[5711]

<p>lol ..</p>

<p> </p>

[bgelfand]

<p>Rick, I agree the Nikon Support page does say a 5-year extension, which with the original 1-year guarantee makes 6 years.</p>

<p>If you think you are correct and wish to pursue the matter:</p>

<p>1) Take a screen shot of the page for documentation.</p>

<p>2) File a false and misleading advertising (Computer Scam) complaint with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC).</p>

<p>3) File a complaint with your state Attorney General.</p>

<p>4) File a complaint with the New York State Attorney General (Nikon USA headquarters is in New York state).</p>

<p>5) File complaints with the Better Business Bureau both in your state and New York state.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Brooks, I am afraid that if you ask a few lawyers, maybe someone could interpret that it means with the extension, the total warranty is five years. To most of us, the wording on that web page seems to suggest that the extension itself is five years and that should be in addition to the original one year for a total of six.</p>

<p>I am sure that we can make another 100 posts arguing about the two different interpretations and perhaps some other interpretations. Since I am very familiar with Nikon's 1+4 program, I know that they are offering a total of 5 years of warranties. I would say that web page is wrong, or at least it is very misleading. That is something Nikon should correct.</p>

<p>Who knows exactly how many web pages there are on Nikon USA's web site, at least hundreds and maybe a few thousand. I think most reasonable people understand that there can be some errors here and there. If you include other Nikon web sites outside of the US, I would imagine that there are lots of errors. In fact, on a daily basis I find errors on quite a few web sites. Just a few days ago, I was extremely frustrated by San Francisco Symphony's web site as a link they suggested was nowhere to be found, and I wasted hours in order to pay them money. Initially I thought it might be a browser issue so that I tried different browsers: Chrome, Firefox ... and I even called them once. If you want to pick on photo.net, sadly, there is plenty of out of date information and we certainly have our share of errors. Our world is simply not all that perfect. I have learned that if I try to make everything perfect, I won't have much time left, if any, to do anything useful.</p>

<p>Incidentally, I have not received any replay from Nikon. Last week was WPPI and my contacts were probably busy. And that web site in question has not been updated.</p>

[bgelfand]

<p>Shun, I agree as you write, most of us would interpret the Web Site offer to mean a total warranty of 6 years. I simply suggested that if Rick feels wronged, he take the steps I outlined in my post to induce Nikon to remediate the wrong.</p>

<p>In the end, it is not how you, I or the other photo.net readers interpret the warranty extension offer, it is how a Judge (either an Administrative Judge or a Judicial Judge) would interpret it. Filing the complaints is the first step in getting a resolution.</p>

[rick_m.]

<p>It would appear that my point about Nikon being somewhat unapproachable is holding true. </p>

<p>For Brooks.</p>

<p>I assumed that because my lens had a 6 year warranty there was no hurry to send it in for service before that warranty was up. I am not going to make a huge point of that but when the google search turns up the page I posted it does make their seeming apathy(?) unsettling. </p>

<p>It would appear they have ignored Shun and possibly B & H as well. </p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>I'll make a second attempt to alert them about this confusion on Nikon's web site. But I am not going to keep bringing it up or they may think I am insane. :-)</p>

[rick_m.]

<blockquote>

<p>I'll make a second attempt to alert them about this confusion on Nikon's web site. But I am not going to keep bringing it up or they may think I am insane. :-)</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I agree. It was nice of you to bring it to their attention. It is up to them what they do with it.</p>

<p>You are in good company. Quite a few people here think I am insane too ;)</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>The second time around I used a different approach. Yesterday I contacted Nikon Customer Support directly, and a supervisor named Chuck responded within a day.</p>

<p>It looks like they have clarified their wording immediately, and that page now has an update time stamp from today, March 12, 2015. Besides specifying that the extension is 4 years for a total of 1+4 =5, they also make it clear that you can now register your new product on line, rather than mailing it before: https://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16192/~/nikon-warranty-and-product-registration</p>

<blockquote>

<p><strong>Nikkor Lenses</strong><br />Nikkor lenses come with a standard one year USA limited warranty + a 4 yr. USA Extended Service Coverage for a total of 5 yrs of protection.<br /> * To register your lens for the 4yr extended service coverage, please visit www.nikonusa.com/register. Keep the <strong>Customer</strong> copy of the form as well as the original proof of purchase (sales receipt).</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Recall that this is a screen capture of the previous wording on that page: http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/00d/00dA6r-555365784.jpg</p>

<p>I am glad that at least something good comes out of this thread.</p>

<p>P.S. Brooks, I am afraid that you need to forget about that law suit. :-)</p>