Best developer for a vast range of films new and old

[paul_c8]

<p>So after years of taking my film to shops, ive started to dev my own film in the bathroom at the studio I work for.<br>

There are a few photogs that have also given me there film that has been sat in the draws for up to 10 years, I stared off using some old but unopened Rodinal with mixed results obviously.<br>

So I went out and bought some fresh developer ilford lc29, up until today things were going ok, after using the massive def chart I tried to develop a roll of ilford pan f (not one of my rolls) it said 4 mins at 20c, I did this for a bit longer 4:30 give or take a few seconds, fixed it and when I pulled it out the film was still purple and you could hardly see a thing on it, im guessing it needed like 8 mins don’t know why thou maybe because its 6 or so years old and been through all kinds of heat (I live in Australia).<br>

Basically I want to keep going but one of the photogs said he never used to like ilford dev so im looking for someone with experience that can recommend a developer that ill be using to develop new film and film that was shot up to 10 years ago from Apx 100, delta 100, delta 400, delta 3200, tri-x, tmax, p3200, pan f, hp5, fp4, foampan, neopan 400, and acros 100.<br>

Thanks</p>

[leighb]

<p>There is no way to predict developer performance on any film that's outdated, even by just a couple of years.</p>

<p>Experimentation won't do any good because you can't guarantee that two rolls of the same date<br>

have had the same storage conditions.</p>

<p>I would strongly advise ignoring the old film and buy new rolls. <br /> You'll waste more money in developer cost and processing time than you'll save by using old film.</p>

<p>- Leigh</p>

[paul_c8]

<p>Thanks for the response leigh, I should of said the film thats old has already been shot and just needs developing, theres only about 10 rolls to do.<br>

I should of made it more clear that im after the best all round dev from here on in for all films ill buy shoot and dev.<br>

Ilford lc29 seems ok but I hear other developers mentioned more offen</p>

[leighb]

<p>OK. My recommendation for this would be Diafine.</p>

<p>Diafine is a two-part fine grain compensating developer that's insensitive to both time and temperature.</p>

<p>Processing recommendations are the same for all films. Do not use a pre-soak.<br /> Soak the film for 5 minutes in Part A, drain briefly, then soak the film for 5 minutes in Part B.<br /> Stop, fix, and wash as usual.</p>

<p>Temperature can be anywhere from 70°F to 85°F. The stop and fixer should be at the same temperature.</p>

<p>Diafine working solutions keep for a very long time when stored at low temperatures in the dark.<br /> It is replenished after use but not in in the conventional way. <br /> Some amount of Part A is absorbed into the emulsion, and that's the volume of liquid that must be replaced.<br /> <br /> You add enough fresh Part A to restore the original volume in iys storage bottle.<br /> Then you add that same amount of fresh Part B to its bottle, and discard any excess used Part B.<br /> <br /> <br /> - Leigh</p>

[christer_almqvist2]

<p>QUOTE .........Apx 100, delta 100, delta 400, delta 3200, tri-x, tmax, p3200, pan f, hp5, fp4, foampan, neopan 400, and acros 100. UNQUOTE</p>

<p>Just a small tip on the side: in the future stick to a single film, two in extreme cases.</p>

<p>Foampan sounds great ;-)</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>I'd advise against Diafine for older film. Much as I like Diafine for fresh Tri-X and a few other films, it seems to increase base fog with older film.</p>

<p>Try HC-110 if you can get it. Gene M on the Classic Manual Cameras forum uses it for lots of old film he finds in cameras and gets consistently acceptable results. It's also a good all purpose developer and the thick syrupy concentrate commonly available in the U.S. keeps for years so it's well suited to occasional darkroom hobbyists.</p>

<p>If HC-110 isn't available in your area try adding a restrainer to whatever developer you do have on hand. Benzotriazole or potassium bromide are often added to some developers already.</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>I have to back up Lex here. You can't go wrong with HC-110 and old film. Another developer I find works well with older films is Acufine.</p>

[chris_waller]

<p>My developer of choice is Rodinal, legendary for its keeping qualities. I use it with a wide range of films and have done for nearly 30 years. That said, I certainly wouldn't argue against HC110 as a good, tried and tested developer with an excellent provenance.</p>

[leighb]

<p>Rodinal has been my developer of choice for about 50 years.<br>

It and HC-110 both suffer from the same problems in this particular situation...<br>

They're both very sensitive to time, temperature, and dilution.</p>

<p>Diafine is the most forgiving of developers, likely to achieve very good results with few issues.</p>

<p>Benzotriazole is certainly desirable with any old film. I didn't think to mention it.</p>

<p>- Leigh</p>

 

[pc_b]

<p>You gotta tell me how exactly you stared Rodinal off the shelf! ;-)<br>

I repeat myself quite often, lately: forget that massiv def chart (as in: "deaf to hearing they should correct the typos in their charts"?). Go to Ilford or Kodak or who ever you get the developer from and work with _their_ dev times/agitation regimes etc.<br>

Of course, with old HP5 and TMZ you can forget Rodinal. LC29 I never used. So, my suggestion is (as most of the time) Xtol. Never had anybody not love the negatives I developed for them. Low fog, very good shadow detail, small but sharp grain (1+1). I use it almost exclusively for all of my stuff, too. For 400ASA and up films around 10 years of age, add 10% more time and develop only at 20°C, not warmer. Did I mention, Xtol is practically non-toxic once in solution?</p>

[john_shriver]

<p>If the film was still purple, do you mean it was still opaque? Your fixer may have failed. Is there a solid white precipitate in the fixer? If this is the case, ideally re-fix in fresh fix, or if that's not available fix for 15 minutes with plenty of agitation in this fixer.<br>

On the other hand, if you have nothing but a pale transparent purple base, and there aren't any frame numbers on the edge of the film, your developer failed. Or the film was desensitized by poor storage.<br>

Always "proof" your developer and fixer before you use it. See that the mixed developer will turn a scrap of film (from the leader) black. See that the fixer will turn a scrap of film clear. Note how long it took the fixer to clear the film, and fix for twice that time.<br>

That 4 minute time is the same as Ilford's data sheet time for LC29.<br>

If you can't use a whole gallon (or 5 liters) of developer in 3-4 months, you want to consider one of the liquid concentrates with good shelf life:</p>

<ul>

<li>Rodinal (whatever it's called now)</li>

<li>Kodak HC-110 (mix directly from syrup, don't make the stock solution!)</li>

<li>Ilford Ilfotec DD-X</li>

<li>Ilford Ilfotec HC (their clone of HC-110)</li>

<li>Ilford Ilfotec LC29 (less concentrated version of HC)</li>

</ul>

<p>HC-110, HC, and LC29 are nice in that they are dissolved in ethylene glycol, so that they have no water in the concentrate, and thus are well-protected from oxidation. (Oxygen is what kills most developers.) They all generate low base fog, making them good for old films. But they are all also very active, the short developing times can be a challenge to get even and accurate development. You can double the dilution and double the developing time if you like. The costs are reasonable.<br>

I've reliably gotten 1 year shelf life out of open bottles of DD-X. This is a great "speed enhancing" developer. Very similar to Microphen and Xtol. But it's expensive, in the US it's nearly $1 a roll, with the insane photography product prices in Australia, I don't even want to consider what it must cost there!<br>

Rodinal is known as being eternally long-lived, but it's a "speed losing" developer, you can't make box speed at normal contrast index. Very cost-effective, and some folks really like the "look" of it.<br>

Kodak TMax developer is also a liquid concentrate, but I have no sense of what the shelf life of an open bottle is.<br>

Kodak Xtol is a wonderful developer, but you'll be throwing it out often if you can't use 5 liters in 4 months. (The 1 liter packs are long unavailable.) You can stretch that somewhat it you store it in 250ml or 500ml glass bottles, full to the brim, and use them single-use.</p>

 

[Mike Gammill]

<p>I've had consistent results from HC110. I mostly use dilution B (direct from concentrated syrup). Consult the Massive Development Chart for starting times. If a time is not listed for common dilutions for HC110 it usually means that (1) development time is too short or (2)use of this developer will produce negatives that are difficult to print (like high contrast). There are "unofficial" dilutions that you can research on the web that might work.</p>

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p>The base fog of old films is much higher.<br>

In this way HC-110 is one of the best options. Use it in dilution B 1+31. Diafine and old films gives a high base fog.<br>

Rodinal gives speed loss, the base fog can be reasonable on old slow speed films but is not the first choice.</p>

<p>Both HC-110 and Rodinal/R09 one shot (sold under the last name now) have a very good shelf life. Indeed HC-110 in Glycol, without water and Rodinal active compound is para-Amino Phenol in Hydroxide, very stable and the concentrate can be over 10 years old and still working.</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>Here is a roll of FP4+ that expired in 1995. I shot and developed it 2 days ago. I used Acufine and rated it at 250. I was expecting fog for unknown storage conditions but it was all just for fun. Well the base of the film was just as good as if it was a new roll that expires in 3 years.<br>

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jokerphotography/sets/72157629584985249/with/6982507877/<br>

<img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7201/6836377694_23fa2b601d.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p> So I would not worry too much about any of the ISO 100-125 films even rateing them higher.</p>

<p> </p>

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p>Yes, iso 100 films not. The iso 3200 films expired so long you can throw away.</p>

<p>Here an example of 12 years old T200 Fomapan film. (Found back in my Olympus Trip 35):<br>

<img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7050/6809278814_ffef894a56_z.jpg" alt="" width="640" height="414" /></p>

<p>Same scene took recently on a fresh Rollei Retro 400S (C.V. Bessa III 667):</p>

<p><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7049/6925878111_38eeb440c5_z.jpg" alt="" width="640" height="468" /></p>

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p>PXP iso 125 expired 1996. Rodinal 1+50. Not bad but not really like new film:</p>

<p><img src="http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4069/4466789032_e87ef91376_z.jpg" alt="" width="635" height="640" /></p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<p>The attached image is TriX 400 that expired in 1984, exposed 2/2011, Nikon F4, 75-300 Nikor zoom at 300, with a 2X teleconverter processed in HC110 dilution H <a href="http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/">http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/</a> @68°F, EI 100. It was scanned on a Plustek 7200 at 7200dpi, RGB16 bit. The image information was in the central 1/3 of the histogram of the scan. Optimal results for this film turned out to be EI 80 and processed at 65°F/18°C. </p>

<p>The base fog dropped significantly from processing at 68°F to processing at 65°F. </p><div></div>

[larrydressler]

<p>Very nice. Charles.</p>

 

[keith_tapscott]

<p><em><strong>"Best developer for a vast range of films new and old"</strong></em></p>

<p>Probably D-76 or ID-11 because most films are designed to perform well in those developers.</p>

[stuart_richardson]

<p>I also agree that HC-110 is a good choice for the really old stuff, but for the new, Xtol is quite hard to beat for a large range of films. It is an excellent all round developer. The only issue is that it is a bit more sensitive to storage and water quality than some other developers, and when it goes off, it simply stops working. Not fun. So mix it with distilled or deionized water and make sure you store it in full glass bottles...either that, or use it up quickly. If you are a very periodic developer, HC-110 is quite good in that it keeps forever, and you can just dilute it as necessary. </p>

[paul_c8]

<p>Thanks so much for the info guys, as i said im new to this and trying tr get my head around all the solutions developers and whatnot is crazy.<br>

I mentioned id be developing a lot of films as im trying to find the film i like best and the stuff i have to develop between me and the 2 photogs i assist is vast, but when I finish them Im going to start shooting behind the scenes shots when we are on jobs but I will most likely be shooting fp4, hp5 and if in the studio delta 3200, on a leica m6, canon ae1 and for 120 mamiya rz.<br>

Ill let you know how i go. Ps: Chemicals and all camera gear is stupidly expensive over here in Oz</p>

[richardsperry]

If you're in Oz, maybe ask the wizard.

 

I hear he is wonderful, and gives things out for free.

[pc_b]

<p>TMZ or old HP5 doesn't need to be thrown away. Just develop it a little longer in HC-110 or Xtol (pushed films even 20% on top of the longer push times). Fog will be higher but the negs certainly not unprintable if ten years old only.</p>

[ian_gordon_bilson]

<p>My 2cents..everybody is 'invested' in the developer they already use.For example,HC 110. It does nothing really well,but it does it ok. By Kodaks own results,it is neither the sharpest,most speed increasing,or finest grain developer in the range,but does have a slight edge in the 'shadow detail' department.<br>

For that,you may wish to try Xtol,stock,replenished. Google it.<br>

It is worth noting the OP is dealing with film he has been 'gifted' by others.<br>

And an Aussie drawer is likely to have been a lot warmer than some of your American experiences.</p>

[mjferron]

<p>D76. I use Tmax developer for pushing and d76 for everything else. </p>