Are Mirror-less cameras jus a fad ?

[hjoseph7]

<p>I remember when the personal computers first came out and nobody in the business community took them seriously except to perform some word-processing and spread sheet functions. Now they have taken over the industry. I'm not sure if the latest craze for mirror-less cameras is going to catch on with professional photographers, or maybe I should say how quickly are they going to catch on.<br>

I was reading a couple of articles in Digital Photo and Popular photography magazines today about the Sony Nex-7 which seems to do everything a high-end DSLR and more. The missing pieces in the puzzle right now, are the lack of lenses. The image quality and AF ares definately up to par according to these 2 articles.<br>

Then again there was the speed-light craze of just a couple of years ago which influenced popular websites such as the Strobist, but that seems to have died down a little last time I looked.<br>

Has anybody here used any of these Mirrorless cameras for business purposes such as shooting a wedding, an advertisement, or a sports shoot and how do they compare with a "modern" DSLR ? I had a friend who swore that with the advent of Digital, mirrorless cameras would be the next big thing in the Photographic industry. Maybe he's right and maybe we better start looking at all the gear we purchased over the years... </p>

[leslie_cheung]

<p>Yes, it's a fad...just like mobile phones:)</p>

[jimstrutz]

<p>Personally, I think this is where professional and enthusiast cameras are ultimately destined to go. I just question whether the technology is yet up to the task. I haven't played with the newest mirror-less cameras yet, but until they eliminate the time lag of the former versions I don't see them taking over the top sales position. They have a lot of things going for them, and now the resolution on at least some of them seems to be high enough to actually do the job. Still, they have to out-resolve and completely keep up with the optical viewfinder before they are going to convince enough of us to change.</p>

<p>But, I do think we'll get there. And probably sooner than later.</p>

 

[dave_s]

<p><em>I had a friend who swore that with the advent of Digital, mirrorless cameras would be the next big thing in the Photographic industry. Maybe he's right and maybe we better start looking at all the gear we purchased over the years...</em><br>

<em> </em><br>

Damn, I'd better start looking at all the gear I've purchased. Wouldn't want to miss the next big thing.</p>

[john_tran14]

<p>I don't know the future, but let me guess: By the time the mirror less take over the DSLRs:<br>

- People don't go to restaurant anymore, they have frozen food delivered to their homes<br>

- Sports games will be played on-line using computers (virtually)<br>

- ...</p>

 

[Karim Ghantous]

<p>Well, mirrorless cameras offer two options: small body and high pixel count (NEX or Pen); or smaller body and medium level pixel count (Nikon 1). If the size of the camera is important, along with the ability to change lenses, and a compact is just not flexible enough, then the mirrorless bodies are just what you need.</p>

<p>DSLRs are bigger but they offer rapid-response (when you press the shutter button). Mirorless bodies are a little behind, but they are not slouches. I think they are great, but they are also unsuitable for some subjects.</p>

<p>I used one once for a paid job, but they images were intended for the web, so the quality was indiscernible from a DSLR (though AFAIK all the mirrorless bodies have 12bpp sensors as opposed to, say, the D700, which is 14bpp).</p>

[jean_yves_mead]

Freedom from the costs and physical constraints imposed by a traditional mirror box and prism assembly... I can't see manufacturers giving that up any time soon.

[jcuknz]

<p>I read all this stuff about how the M4/3 cannot focus fast but this afternoon I saw a hawk circling above me and took several shots and was amazed at how fast focus locked onto it.<br />Half trigger full pressure etc.<br />I'm writing from ignorance of how a DSLR would do it with phase detection since my experience is with bridge but I cannot see how much quicker it could be ... certainly my bridge camera wouldn't have coped so well, if at all judging from past experience.<br />Panasonic G3 with 14-140 lens. A 100% crop. Not perfect by a long way but wait until I get one flying lower and better light :-) Perhaps I should get the 100-300 lens, but not sure I would find the bird for starters with a 100. Please pardon my enthusiasm :-)</p><div></div>

[john_robison3]

<p>Actually, I think this whole 'digital' thing is just a phase.</p>

[wpahnelas]

<p>who cares about cameras any more, when people can photo just about anything they care about with their iphones?</p>

[jhindle]

<p>Since mirror-less cameras actually predate DSLRs, I'd hardly call them a fad. The current mirror-less digital systems pick up where camera like the Olympus Pen and the film rangefinders left off and are made possible by advances in viewfinder technology and, increasingly the processing power to do AF as fast as DSLRs.</p>

[paul_wheatland]

<p>My dilemma is that I really like digital but detest autofocus. What I want is full frame but I'll settle for 1.5 crop with a mirrorless platform. The ideal would be a variable rangefinder with automatic parallax correction and framing. These factors are from my love of my Leica M3 with DR Summicron. As I am retired my budget does not allow for purchase of an M9. Hopefully Sony will eventually offer the product that I seek. We are getting closer with the Sony Nex 7n as I review the specs.</p>

[jhindle]

<p>The closest to what you want would, I suspect be a Fuji X100. It's a great camera but limited to a single focal length. Other manufacturers are looking at viewfinders that combine electronics with natural light. Rangefinder style focusing? I suspect only Leica do this at the moment (at least with digital).</p>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>John Tran he made a guess so I would like to make a guess.<br>

The mirrorless is here to stay and not just a fad.<br>

There are inherit problems with the mirrorless that I think I will never prefer them to DSLR.</p>

[mukul_dube]

<p>They may not be adopted by professional photographers -- but they appear to be in the process of being adopted by some of those who make up the bulk of the market. Seems to me that camera buyers should be divided up into at least three categories: professionals (not so many individuals); amateurs who want interchangeable lenses and not so small sensors (rather more); and those for whom point-and-shoot cameras are the correct thing (very many). I do not know which segment of the market gives camera companies the most profits: but it does not seem that any segment is loss-making.</p>

[jcuknz]

<p>Surely the professional has a stable of cameras and so will use M4/3 when it is the appropriate camera for the job just as some use P&S for the same reason. With film they have LF/MF/ and 35mm and specialist varients ... with digital we have a similar if different range of cameras.<br>

No one camera will do everything though the DSLR currently seems to be trying to do that.</p>

[GerrySiegel]

<p>Dick Arnold shared his expanded views on the mirrorless he uses vis a vis his traditional high end "professional" pentaprism models- in a business context,-you may want to check out his comments from recent post:<br /> http://www.photo.net/casual-conversations-forum/00Zczw<br /> Given that the state of the no mirror box art is moving faster than ever, re speed of CPUs and on board processing memory and display size and finder crispness, the hard to dismiss advantages of <em>light weight and full time live view </em>and <em>improving EVF resolution</em>- as well as entry by big name players of the electronics and optics world. Nikon and Fuji for instance, I predict this format is bound to do well down the road. It already has captured a big hunk of the market already from what I garner. <br /> It does not need to supersede my current big traditional DSLR, a waterproof mode, but I sure fancy the capabilities of my Panasonic GH2. Wedding photographers are already be adopting these as backup or secondary models, and using them for HD video as well as stills. Lenses for them are introduced with quiet motors for that purpose. Motorized zoom too... No, I see no faddery, Harry.</p>

[Jerry_]

<p>Canon, for film, made:</p>

<p>1. A Pellix body</p>

<p>2. A EOS RT body</p>

<p>3. A souped-up RT body</p>

<p>all with the semi-transparent mirror technology. None are in production today.</p>

<p>Unless the current NEX line has a really, really fine assortment of lenses, the ol' slug Nikon D3 line and the camera bodies from Canon will continue to be sold and used by those buying 'em.</p>

<p> </p>

[Karim Ghantous]

<blockquote>

<p>all with the semi-transparent mirror technology. None are in production today.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Only because EVFs did not exist then. In any case, the NEX bodies don't have semi-transparent mirrors. Some of the Alpha DSLRs do, however.</p>

[hjoseph7]

<p>Too bad they could not make the lenses proportional to camera size. Another issue is that the battery life is only about 300-350 shots average per charge, probably less if you are using flash or strobes. Some of these cameras shoot 5 frames per second(fps) with the Nex-7 shooting a wopping 10fps, but the bulk of these cameras average about 3fps or less. Also most of the current lens offerings for those cameras are in the f3.5-5.6 range which limits your options.<br>

Nature and Sports photographers who often shoot with super telephoto lenses 300mm and up, are better off leaving these cameras at home. Nothing is mentioned about the ruggedness of these cameras(and lenses), are they weather/dust proof like the high-end DSLR's ? I know the Sony Nex-7 is made from solid metal, but metal is no guarantee against extreme weather conditions. Then there is the issue off attaching power draining studio strobes, tripods, and/or other accessories to these fragile looking bodies. In this case bigger is better. <br>

<br />In any case, I would love to have a nice compact <strong>Travel camera </strong>with interchangeable lenses(hear that Santa...), that can match the picture taking quality of my DSLR. <em>Although I would prefer one with lenses that are proportional to camera size</em>. Unless you suffer from advanced Arthriitis, you might be better off with a small DSLR and short zoom lens, since the mirror-less will not fit in the average pocket with a lens anyway.<br>

<br />Then there are some pretty good high-end point-and-shoots out there if you want the ultimate in convenience, size/weight and anonymity(Panasonic, Leica, Richo, etc).</p>

[User_2000406]

<p>We don't yet have mirrorless interchangeable-lens camera *systems* that are truly geared towards pros. Current mirrorless cameras and systems are geared towards amateurs including both casual and serious ones. The EVFs have limitations as do other facets of camera operation, though those are improving.</p>

<p>So what? As various technologies are improved it will become feasible in time to produce a true pro mirrorless camera with pro-level performance and a full-frame sensor. Aside from the body itself it will need to have reasonable selection of lenses of appropriate quality and characteristics available. Really, it's only a matter of time. Just as the first pro DSLRs mainly appealed to just certain sectors of the pro market, so the first pro mirrorless cameras will probably appeal mainly to some kinds of pros (perhaps PJs and wedding photogs?), but even that will change in time.</p>

[john_tran14]

<p>Think about this:<br>

1Ds IV is 156mm 156mm 80mm 1180g<br>

5D II is 152mm 114mm 75mm 810g<br>

Why does the 1Ds have to be bigger than the 5D? not because of being FF or having a mirror!<br>

Would you be happier if the next 1Ds( 1Ds V) is as small as the Pentax *istD? would you be suspicious about this small 1Ds V?</p>

[Ken Katz]

A complete Pen system (with a kit lens, 80-280mm equivalent telezoom, and super WA zoom) weighs about the same as just my Canon 70-200 F4IS, so for travel, when photography is not the primary goal, I have no intention of taking the Canon system. The cheap lenses I currently have are not as good as my Canon L zooms, AF is not as quick or accurate, and my aging 5D (with 4x the sensor area) produces cleaner images at any ISO setting. But the camera's capability still exceeds my own and when I point it in right direction and hit the shutter at the right time, it can take excellent images.

[StuartMoxham]

<p>I wouldn't say they are just a fad. I would say that eventually mirrorless will be the norm for most people with a small number prefering or needing what a DSLR or Rangfinder can offer. Micro 4/3 already have quite a nice selection of small primes available the other manufactures will likely have a similar number in a few years. Personaly I can't wait for Sony to release a nice wide/normal pancake prime for the NEX system at the moment I use a Nokton 40mm F1.4 which is a rather long normal on a DX cam with slighly fiddly manual focus. Still the NEX C3 I have is very small and once a 30mm pancake is available I will be one happy camper. Until then I just have to live with the 16mm pancake and the 40mm Nokton. The NEX C3 is now my "digtal Canonet" thats something I have wanted for a long time. With great looking images at ISO1600 and pretty usable at ISO 6400 yep I am more than pleased with this small camera.</p><div></div>

[jim_taylor4]

<p>Hi<br>

Interesting question...are we talking about the Sony Alphas or the Pen/Nex/G3 family, I only have experience of the Nex cameras so...<br>

There are a few points that probably drive which camera you buy and not all of them are based on features or specifications..<br>

I suspect many amatuers buy DSLR's because they are percieved as 'Professional' (ie people aspire to be seen skilled, experienced photoghraphers.) Most of the people who buy DSLR's are not professionals, never get published and never shoot weddings even for friends but they are happy to enjoy the technology. So a DSLR mirrorless makes no difference to the buying decision, it has the 'Professional' look <br>

I suspect that Nex/G3/Pen mirrorless cameras will never qualify for this kind of kudos and will never be used by professionals (they do not offer an advantage to a Pro and what if the client was unimpressed?)<br>

So I actually think that for some time to come Mirrorless (nex...) will be bought as second cameras by DSLR owners. Not sure about the old argument about people upgrading from compacts, I suspect most of these people buy DSLR.<br>

:-) </p>