Adox 50 developer...warning

[mjferron]

<p>I appreciate that Bob. Still that's one fast oxidation. This is why I love Clayton F60. Mix one shot, no problems. I always liked Delta as well :)</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>I use Hc-110 Dilution H Diafine and Rodinol all one shot. My Acufine I replenish or use diluted 1 shot depending...<br>

Learning a new developer can be a hard lesson.</p>

[bob_sunley]

<p>RA4 paper developer working solution dies almost as quickly in a bottle half full of air, esp when it is just mixed with nicely aerated tap water and doesn't have used solution returned to the bottle. Once you aerate it once in a print drum, it's dead in under 5 hours just sitting there. I even tried to save some overnight for a test, used it in a tray for an hour or so and poured it back into a bottle filled to the brim. It was useless in 18 hours. </p>

<p>My D76 stock made with distilled water is still good after a year in an airless 2 liter soft drink bottle. :)</p>

<p> </p>

[riton_mhilli]

<p>Michael <br>

There is plastic and plastic<br>

The best plastic bottles I use ,are the category of the coca cola bottles.I noticed no coloration of the bottle even 3 months later with every kind of developer, for film and paper,stock or working dilution.I think air (oxygen) doesn't penetrate it.<br>

With other kind of plastic bottles I noticed varying degrees of brownish coloration of the bottle after it was empty.May be air penetrates It and the developer becomes oxydated.</p>

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>Larry,</p>

<p>I've never seasoned any of my containers, but since you think it's important, I feel compelled to mention that Xtol is not an acid solution. Undiluted Xtol has a pH of about 8.2, and given its sensitivity to contamination, your acid "seasoning" is probably not a very good idea, if it has any effect at all.</p>

[robert_amsden]

<p>Brown glass bottles in the same size for one use are the only thing to use. Plastic lets oxygen in spoiling the chemicals.</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>Thanks for the Info as I have not mixed my Xtol I have I still have too many other developers to use first.</p>

[Alan Johnson]

<p>Not sure what developer you mean, I never heard of an Adox 50 developer. Do you mean Adotech?</p>

[bob_sunley]

<p>Robert amsden wrote:<br>

"Brown glass bottles in the same size for one use are the only thing to use. Plastic lets oxygen in spoiling the chemicals."</p>

<p>If so why does Kodak ship oxidizeable colour developers in plastic bottles, topped with an inert gas? PETE plastic as used in soft drink bottles can maintain a pressure of up to 75psi in the bottle. That doesn't sound very gas permeable to me, see below. A nice table on gas pereability of various plastics, plus info on wine fermenting and storage tanks too. :)</p>

<p>http://www.flextank.com.au/PDF_Files/2-Year-Update.pdf</p>

<p>Yes, glass is best for it's lack of permeability, but it is a pain as you either have to displace the air or purge it with inert gasses everytime you remove some of the contents. Brown glass is bad as you can't see the crap remaining in the bottle, and besides, you are storing the chemicals in a dark room, usually in a cupboard which blocks out what little artificial light that exists there.</p>

 

[mjferron]

<p>"Do you mean Adotech"</p>

<p>Yep that's the one.</p>

[Alan Johnson]

<p>When Freestyle says the opened developer will last 6 weeks I believe it refers to the concentrate.</p>

<p>The diluted developer was oxidized by air.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Michael; orange developer means it is oxidized; shot. You developed your film in shot developer. It really doesnt matter HOW it got shot; what matters is in the future you learn that orange or brown developer is bad; thus make up new developer instead of assuming.</p>

 

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>A far better title of this thread should be a warning not to use orange or brown tired developers on good films</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Once one sees orange developer one should not use it one anything of importance; one can get no development or little.<br>

<br /> It is sort of like bad milk or eggs; you toss it out.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>How new the milk, eggs, developer is does not matter if they are bad; what matters is you discard the bad stuff; knowing it is bad just by looks.</p>

[leonard_van_der_zwan]

<p>Taken that in the initial use it worked fine, but was orange before using it again, storage seems to be the moment things went wrong.<br>

Being a chemist I agree with Kelly Flanigan that the solution turning orange is likely to be due to oxidation and thus makes the solution probably useless.<br>

1)I would check if the screw cap of your bottle contains an O-ring and whether this is well in place.<br>

2)there are extremely robust plastics, so a plastic bottle specific for photo developing chemicals is highly unlikely to be the cause.<br>

3) the temperature of storage does not seem a problem (see <a href="http://www.adox.de/MSDS_ADOTECH_ENG.pdf">http://www.adox.de/MSDS_ADOTECH_ENG.pdf</a>)<br>

4)There is a very small chance your gloves were of a material (latex) or were powdered that was not sufficiently resistant and your solution was contaminated with it leading to a subsequent reaction<br>

5)Although unlikely human error, happens to the best e.g., unnoticed spill of fix in the developer<br>

6)wrong mix at the plant, e.g, too little potasium hydroquinone sulphate (see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_developer">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_developer</a>)</p>

<p>What to do?: i would send the comapny an email (<a href="http://www.adox.de/english/WTB/WTB.html">http://www.adox.de/english/WTB/WTB.html</a>) and tell your story+ state batchnumber/lotnumber of the bottle and ask if they have suggestions or if they had complaints about this lot or batch?</p>

 

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>Kelly,<br>

Lots of developers oxidize enough to discolor long before they're too oxidized to develop film. I've been using 510-Pyro that looks like used motor oil for almost a year now, and it works perfectly. Most replenished developers oxidize enough to discolor after a few uses, but go on working reliably, sometimes for very long periods. Rodinal is famous for discoloring AND for long shelf life. Before you disparage the OP for expecting his recently mixed developer to develop his film, perhaps you should think more carefully about the range of experiences that inform the decisions of others. </p>

[bob_sunley]

<p>Jay, Rodinal only has a long shelf life when opened but not mixed to a working solution. When you mix it the working solution's life may only be a few hours.</p>

<p>Edit: The OP did mix all the concentrate and stored the working solution, approx 1 quart, in a two quart bottle. He has not indicated if he did or did not pour the used developer back into the two quart bottle as well.</p>

[jay_de_fehr]

<p>Bob,</p>

<p>I'm aware of the differences in keeping properties between stock solutions and working solutions; I was just making the point that discolored developer doesn't automatically equate to bad developer, as Kelly suggested, and it would be far more helpful to provide an explanation of these differences than to make misleading generalizations in a disparaging tone. </p>

[mjferron]

<p>Bob no used developer was put back in the bottle. I always use once and dump no matter what the developer. In the end I'm surprised the mix didn't last more than a week. D76 in similar bottles doesn't do this and neither does my ID-11 that's a few weeks old now filling just half the bottle. Used it tonight and it's right on. Clear and potent.</p>

[leonard_van_der_zwan]

<p>Coloring may occur and the solution may still work, but it is an indication of oxidation, which may in the end lead to a useless solution. <br>

Since no solution was poured back into the bottle for reuse, something with the bottle or the mix seems to be the problem.<br>

i would check if the cap is really tight by filling the bottle with water screw the cap on and hold it upside down for some time. <br>

An only partially filled bottle ofcourse also means more oxygen available for oxidizing the solution and may thus reduce the storage life.<br>

Sometimes you never find out why, you use a procedure a thousand times without any problem and than it fails once. (i have worked in a science lab and know how difficult it can be to figure out what went wrong)<br>

But still, if the bottle does not leak, I would send an email to the manufacturer, because it might be an erroneous mix and they would like to know if somethings wrong too and may be willing to help you with advice or might be even sending you new chemicals.<br>

Loosing images though is always painful.</p>

 

[User_502260]

<p>If I remember what Adotech is, it's used as a low contrast developer for shooting document films for continuous tone work. These developers are quite dilute. The ones like POTA and Technidol have a working solution lifespan of minutes, not hours. These are typically phenidone based developers. A better solution for many people is using Ilford Microphen diluted 1:5. The Microphen stok solution has a much better shelf life than something like Adotech. By diluting it 1:5 for use you get the benefits of the phenidone but a much lower concentration of sodium sulfite.</p>

[mjferron]

<p>Jeff I appreciate that. Guess my big mistake was to mix the whole bottle. I'll look into Microphen.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Hello I to the group:</p>

<p>(1) Having developer "turning orange or brown" really should raise RED flags; thus "if in doubt" you run a test and do not assume. </p>

<p>I too have used ill looking developer; beer; milk or eggs too. If in doubt I test it instead of ruining something. ` </p>

<p>With old Kodak Kodagraph developer for lith films it looks like light tea colored even when freshly mixed.</p>

<p>I friend in the 1970's had some roll film developer that was orange/brown that he swore was good and worked that day; I used it and ruined a roll.</p>

<p>With an unknown developer or food it is better to chuck it than risk getting bad results; or test it if in thrifty mode.</p>

<p>How long a new batch lasts depends on the surface area exposed to the total volume. A container that is bigger has less area exposed. In an open tray developer can go bad in less than 1 day; sometimes a few hours.</p>

<p>For old D76 here I just mix up 1 gallon and place the stock 1 gallon in GLASS wine bottles; it fills up 4 completely and the 5th alot. Stored under the sink where it is dark; the raw stock brew lasts me over 1 year. I often mix it 1:1 and always chuck it after each usage. I have used it sometimes after 2 years when the bottles were still full. A 1/2 full bottle lasts about say 2 to 4 months.</p>

 

[willscarlett]

<p>I've used Adox CMS 20 and their Adotech developer in the past, but I don't use the film frequently enough to use up the developer before it goes bad and thus have only developed two rolls with two bottles of their developer. Anyways, I just bought another batch of 5 rolls and one bottle of developer, but hadn't decided if I should shoot all five rolls and develop them all at once, or develop as it shoot, being sure to top off the concentrate with water to help prevent oxidation. In any event, I had always assumed I would just add the water to the original glass bottle that the developer came in.</p>