Nasty horizontal lines on Tri-X@1600 negs

[clive1]

<p>I'm getting nasty horizontal lines (see 6x4.5 image) on Tri-X 120 negs pushed to 1600 and developed in Xtol 1:1 for 10.5 or 11 mins at 20 degrees. This has happened with same film from other cameras so is not the camera. All advice greatly appreciated. Thanks</p>

<p><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3638/3417617404_e96d095143.jpg?v=0" alt="" /></p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>This is actually on the negatives, correct? Not scanning artifacts? I've seen similar "chugging/drag" marks from an ancient flatbed scanner that lost its calibration and no longer scanned evenly.</p>

<p>Very peculiar. You've ruled out a couple of possibilities: it's not a shutter problem or light leak if you're seeing this in other cameras; it's not scuffs from a bulk loader since it's 120.</p>

<p>If these marks are representative of what you're seeing in every frame, they are far too even for surge marks due to agitation or any sort of uneven development.</p>

<p>Light leaks in the tank during processing? Even that seems unlikely, the marks are too evenly distributed across the frame.</p>

<p>My next step might be to sacrifice a fresh roll. Open it in daylight and inspect both sides of the film carefully for any indication of emulsion coating errors or other problems. This is extremely unlikely considering Kodak's quality control, but I can't think of anything else that would cause these marks.</p>

<p>I'm stumped.</p>

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

<p>They may be sacanning artifacts. I've never seen anything like this on any of my own film - but maybe I'm lucky.</p>

[travis_bushue]

<p>FWIW, Tri-X @ 1600 in Xtol 120 & 35mm is a favorite combo of mine and I have yet to see anything like this example.</p>

[Craig_Cooper11664875449]

It really looks like scanner issues. Try scanning a culprit frame twice, 2nd time 180 degrees turned around and see if the pattern remains the same. If more testing is necessary, try scanning at a 90 degree flip if possible and check the grain direction.

[clive1]

<p>They're not from the scanner. Just to make sure I wet printed the same picture this evening and the lines are evident on the print. They're on the negatives, and I notice that they run through from frame to frame. Some are less pronounced, others, like this one, have very clear lines. I've seen them on a number of rolls, all 120 Tri-X@1600, shot on two very different cameras (SL66 and GA645i). The film was bought at different times (although probably from the same store). I've shot lots of other film with the same cameras and have had no problems. I'm gonna try developing some 35mm with the same process and see what happens. I'll post the results. Thank you for the suggestions.</p>

[travis_bushue]

<p>Please do post the results. This is strange indeed. I am posting one 120 Tri-X @ 1600 and one 35mm Tri-X @1600. Both developed in Xtol 1+1 and scanned on a Canoscan 8800F.</p><div></div>

[travis_bushue]

<p>And the 35mm version..</p><div></div>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Two other questions, Clive:</p>

<ol>

<li>What tank/reel system are you using?</li>

<li>Did you check the paper backing for signs of corresponding marks?</li>

</ol>

<p>Re: #2, the only time I've seen odd marks on 120 was a very old roll in which condensation had formed between the film and paper backing. When I noticed the marks on the film I dug the paper backing out of the trash and confirmed it. But these were definite splotches, not even even lines like your photo shows.</p>

[clive1]

<p>Lex,<br /> I'm using a Jobo tank, with which you"walk" the film into the reel. I've just pulled the paper backs out of the trash and checked and can see nothing unusual.<br /> I considered this might be happening through some sort of problem with storage of the exposed film in the fridge, but recall that the other day I immediately developed film I had shot that afternoon as I wanted to see the pushed results, and the lines were present--see top pic below from the SL66 with lines; below are Delta 3200@1600 and TMAX 100, both shot with the GA645 and developed with Xtol, showing no lines.</p>

<p><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3613/3415400826_61dcc43477.jpg?v=0" alt="" /><br /> <br /> <img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3243/3155393182_b35554e425.jpg?v=0" alt="" /><br /> <br /> <img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3026/2682033703_3ffa1e61cf.jpg?v=0" alt="" /></p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>That is very peculiar, Clive. It sounds like you've exhausted the possible problems and your negatives are very good, so I suspect you know enough to eliminate all the likely variables.</p>

<p>The only other variable I can think of is to expose the film normally and develop normally rather than pushing. This probably shouldn't make any difference, tho', but it's that last variable I can think of to eliminate before the next step, which is...</p>

<p>I rarely ever suggest this because too many people jump to the erroneous conclusion that it's a manufacturing defect, but in this case I'd suggest sending samples of the negatives themselves and an undeveloped roll from the same lot to Kodak for evaluation. I honestly cannot think of another likely culprit other than an emulsion flaw.</p>

<p>But first, if you have not already done so, expose and develop a roll normally to eliminate all variables. This way if Kodak asks you can say that, yes, you've already tried that.</p>

<p>Please update this thread to let us know of any further information.</p>

[bgelfand]

<p>Where in the world are you and where did you purchase the film?</p>

<p>Has the film been through any type of security scanners, at airports for instance?</p>

[bobcossar]

<p>Is it possible that you are one of those who wipe, or sqeegie the film prior to hanging it up?</p>

[clive1]

<p>Thanks Lex for all the advice. I will shoot and develop a roll at 400 and have a look.</p>

<p>Brooks, I live in Tokyo and purchase my film at some of the large electronics stores here that have whole areas dedicated to film photography.</p>

<p>Bob, this is exactly what I thought about last night after first posting this. I lightly wipe the film top to bottom with a dedicated sponge to remove excess wetting agent. However, I do this with all my negs. Again, I will develop a roll and not sponge it and see if that is the problem. I'm wondering if Tri-X is particularly sensitive to this. Seems unlikely.</p>

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

<p>You have me stumped. But I'll think about it some more.</p>

[bgelfand]

<p>Hi Clive,</p>

<p>I see fine vertical lines, but no horizontal lines.</p>

<p>If I may make a suggestion. If you do not mind sacrificing a roll, take an unexposed roll, divide it in two parts. Develop one half normally. Develop the other half pushed to 1600. The film should be blank. If you see the lines, it is defective film. If you see the lines on the half pushed to 1600 but not the half developed normally, then we have an interesting puzzle.</p>