wenti duo Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I have told another person honestly that I cropped a photo. The responses to the photo before and after the viewer heard that the photo has been cropped from a larger original was quite different. It seems that people respect photographers who do not crop at all. I am puzzled. I thought cropping should be as legitimate as colour adjustment and tone adjustment. However, people rarely ask questions if the colours are not the same as the colours in the original photos. What is your opinion about cropping. Is it a matter of experience, self-discipline, ability, or it does not matter? Do we need to force ourselves to present a photo as it is shot? Some old masters claim that they had never cropped their photos. I wonder whether their non-cropping approach was a decisive factor that contribute to their status? Do you admire people who do not crop at all more than people who crop all the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User_276104 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I think cropping is perfectly legitimate. I suspect it has gotten a bad name in recent years because it's so easy and may be considered a crutch for digital photography. As for how often I crop a photo? Hardly ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I always try to make the best photo I can using the full frame, but if cropping reinforces the end result? Then absolutely I will do it. Arnold Newman did it all of the time, So did Walker Evans, Imogene Cunningham and Dorthea Lange, and occasionally Ansel Adams. Not all of us can always live up to Henri Cartier-Bresson or Jay Maisel's standards -- but I know Jay and he is a hellaciously powerful editor of his own work and of his students. "Do we need to force ourselves to present a photo as it is shot?" I think your choice of language reveals a critical thought process at work. Good for you. One starts the cropping process when one decides where to be in relation to the subject (height, angle, distance) and what focal length lens to use. It takes just as much ability and skill to know when and how to crop well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richterjw Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 As usual, Ellis has stated her argument well. And I completely agree with her. Framing a picture in a viewfinder is cropping, removing whatever is not necessary for the most effective photograph. It is an intrinsic and necessary property of photography. JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lake_photography Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I crop very little if at all. I know I have in the past but I can't look at my walls and remember which photo was cropped or not. I do my very best to crop in the viewfinder. I learned that from my one and only teacher forty years ago and it has served me well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kahn Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 It's rare that I don't crop a photo, and I think it's a legitimate tool in creating the right composition for the shot. Look at it this way: The "as shot" aspect ratio of an image depends on the particular camera, film size, film format or digital sensor size. There are a lot of different formats out there and no one of them is ordained by heaven, congress, the supreme court or Martha Stewart. It's the photographer's call, completely. The only photographic arena where cropping might be considered a questionable practice is in journalism, where it might be seen as an attempt to hide something. In the art world, however, cropping is and always has been a valid creative technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 why do people think I am a woman? Is it because I am sensible in my responses? :-)<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wenti duo Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Thanks Ellis and Eric, Your comments are helpful. I try to work hard when shooting. But I increasingly find cropping useful when a dead photo can actually be revived. Love to see the names of these people. I will try to trace their thoughts on cropping. It all at a sudden becomes an interesting research project now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Laur Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I can't always know how an image might be used. Tabloid hardcopy? 4x6 print? 5x7 print? Just the fact that aspect ratios differ considerably from one use/venue to the next, there's good reason to provide some wiggle room. It has actually taken me some time to deliberately provide space for that as I frame a shot. If a lanscape-orientation shot is perfectly framed left-to-right (mind you, I'm using an APS-C sensor), then I have to consider what will happen to the vertical part of the image when it's seen 10x8 vs. 12x8. This entire issue revolves around why a given image is produced in the first place. That sheds some light on the audience, the ultimate medium, etc. And that can dictate whether, when, and how much to crop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shots worth sharing Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 "It seems that people respect photographers who do not crop at all." Humbug--cropping is a critical element of the art. I purposely leave a little room for cropping--way better than ending up with a botched shot. Sure, we all celebrate the occasional "perfect out of the camera" shot but the ultimate test is the finished photograph. Similarly, we celebrate the miraculously sharp shot taken hand held with a 600mm lens at dusk but if you're serious about getting that shot, you'd be well-advised to use a tripod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelging Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Cropping ,like placement of subject, lighting , contrast, color, focus are all tools to be used to make the finished product the best it can be. I shoot tight, wasting space in a neg is foolish, it just takes away sharpness and adds grain. I shoot as tight as I can , then crop to make the best photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_camarena Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 If I were shooting with a view camera, working slowly and composing my image on a large-format ground glass, I would expect that I would crop very rarely. With smaller formats, it's almost unavoidable, especially if when making a traditional size print (8 x 10, 11 x 14, 16 x 20) since the proportions of your camera's format and the print will almost always be different. I have no philosophic problem with cropping other than the diminished image quality resulting from extreme cropping. Personally (I shoot digital and 35mm), I try to crop as little as possible so as to maximize the quality of the final product. In addition I generally let the image determine the proportions of my print rather than be a slave to the traditional sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_henderson Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 How often do you crop your pictures? Normally just the once. Seriously I think its kind of odd thinking to criticise cropping when in many cases the photographer could generate the same result by using a different lens or changing to a different format. Whilst like others I do try and use the full frame, and achieve that maybe 90% of the time, sometimes either before or after the shutter is pressed it becomes clear that full frame isn't the best option. I'm happy to make the decision before or after, but if the implication of rejecting cropping is that I shouldn't photograph something beautiful that happens not to suit the format I have in hand, then I think that's just barmy, and it makes the legitimacy of my photography dependent on what equipment I chose to take out this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randall ellis Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I crop from time to time, usually when I cannot get where I want to be in relation to my subject, but not always. There are certainly times when, after I've considered a negative for some time, that I choose to alter my initial concept by cropping it. Generally speaking, when I do crop, it's not overly much, but again, if I found that the situation warranted it I would have no problem cropping out parts of the negative if it helped accomplish what I was after. - Randy P.S. Hey Ellis, I always thought you were one of the guys, for what it's worth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richterjw Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Sorry, Ellis. I once knew a woman by that name, and it stuck; it's just one of those unisex names that could go either way. Most sincere apologies, JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_moravec1 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I rarely crop as must as most of my subjects are stationary. But I see nothing wrong in it if you need to do so, say a grab shot you did not have time to frame properly or had the wrong lens on the camera or could not get close enough. Even when I do 4x5, I make every effort to fill the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiao Cai Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Probably it is related to how you consider a composition in your photography. Do you consider a composition when you take a picture? If you did, you would be less to crop your pictures; if not, you would more likely to crop your pictures. So this question probably related to another question: is a composition very important in my photography? Do I need to consider a composition when I take a picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenPapai Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 How often do you print at exactly a 3:2 ratio? Otherwise you crop. No big deal. Like anything worth doing correctly in life, you use the appropriate tool at the appropriate time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff_foale Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 It all depends on what you are photographing. Cropping isn't so important if you have plenty of thinking time before a 'ranging shot' which is viewed on the camera screen, then another bit of thinking before taking the keeper image. With me, it's more a case of 'Look at that!' and click; so cropping is usually necessary. A lot of my photography is wildlife, often quick shots from a moving boat, so realignment of horizon is needed as well as cropping. Try telling a flying bird or pod of dolphins 'I didn't get that one perfectly centred and you were too far away, so please come around again'. With landscapes and carefully posed portraits (including flowers etc) cropping can be avoided; and a bit of processing time saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User_276104 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I just thought of a situation in which cropping really annoyed me. I worked in Alaska for 3 summers on cruise ships. Out on a whale watching trip, an acquaintance of mine was shooting with one of those Sonys with a fixed lens and wide zoom range. After a few whale sightings, I noticed that he was zooming in on his LCD and THEN showing people the photo he just took, which I felt was misleading. By peoples' reactions I gathered that they thought he was skillfully getting these great wildlife close-ups. Remembering that day made me realize that I do have some ethical concerns when it comes to cropping certain subjects. Or maybe I was just jealous that someone with a P&S-type camera was getting all the attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard-just-Leonard Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I crop every photo that I am going to print as a "keeper" Why? My camera (Nikon coolpix s10) spits out non-standard sized digital files. Everywhere I go to get prints they are 4x6. So, I either let them crop it anyway they want to fit, or I do it they way I want it. I actually start out with 12x18 which is the largest acceptable for this 6 megapixel camera. I can step down to 8x12 or the 4x6 without any further cropping or adjustment. Also lots of times I just cannot zoom in enough or it is foolish to get too close to wildlife so cropping afterwards is the only reasonable alternative. sample of standing in river cannot get closer, before and after the crop. hopefully I sized it right !<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiao Cai Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Probably this question is not related to ratio problem, and probably talking about the same ratio cropping� Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_sinquefield Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I crop when necessary. Obviously, you have to if shooting in a different aspect ratio than you are printing (for example, I shoot with a 2:3 ratio, but have to crop if printing 8x10). I do try to compose to minimizing the amount of cropping I do. Basically, if I want to print an 8x10, I just want to cut some out of the top and/or bottom on a vertical composition. It seems to be a necessary thing for most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernie moore Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 More often than I care to admit I shoot a image that appeals to me thinking what I have framed is what attracted me to the shot only to find the real pic is a small part of the original. So...crop when you find the real pic or to trim the fat off the steak. Regards, Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourthst Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 It would be a hell of a thing if we had to carry around a camera in each format, its accompanying lenses, film, and various support equipment for any shot that came up. A 4x10, 35mm, 2 1/4, 4x5, 6x7, Widelux, etc, etc. Maybe cropping is okay. Shoot for the image, crop if you need. It's not cheating after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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