New MacBook Pro & Consumer Reports

Discussion in 'Digital Darkroom' started by wgpinc, Dec 23, 2016.

  1. It seems that the much awaited new MacBook Pro has failed to get a recommendation from Consumer Reports for the first time in Apple history.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-macbook-pro-2016-consumer-reports-2016-12
    Is it really an inferior product or are they splitting hairs in their criticism of the new MacBook Pro's battery performance?
     
  2. I'm loving my maxed out 15" MBP.
     
  3. Andrew, is this the new one? Enquiring minds would love more details.
     
  4. Yes, brand new (couple weeks), 15" with TouchBar. What do you want to specifically know?
     
  5. Ming Thein just did a review of the new Macbook pro 13. I'm not a Mac user so not so interested:

    https://blog.mingthein.com/2016/12/22/review-apple-macbook-pro-13-late-2016-with-touch-bar/
     
  6. The price of the product has a lot of weight in Consumer Report review. I have never seen CR recommended the best product of any kind because the diminishing return and the best product usually only slightly better than the second best or third best but is much more expensive.
     
  7. I think there was an easy fix to the "space heater" problem he mentioned.
    Funny story: I was in the Apple store yesterday agonizing over a decision I'm not allowed to mention when a business-looking guy walked in to do his Christmas shopping. He pointed at the table covered with all of Apple's laptops and asked "What do you have in stock?" The Apple employee said it was Christmas and stock was pretty low. All they had was the new 13" MacBook Pro without the touchbar and a few MacBook Airs. The business guy pointed at the MBP, which was closest, and said "Okay, give me four of those." When the Apple employee asked what color, the business guy first asked what choices he had and then said "Uhhh, two of each." He later changed one to a MacBook Air for a "little kid." Clearly, not everyone compares specs like I do.
     
  8. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator Staff Member

    The price of the product has a lot of weight in Consumer Report review.​

    The criticism of the product had to do with battery issues. Unless batteries are being sold separately, I doubt price had anything to do with the review.
     
  9. Dave's story reminds me of something that happened when I was hanging out in a ComputerLand store in Boulder (CO USA) around 1983. Two sloppily-dressed guys came in and bought about $12K of computers and printers in the space of 15 min., for which they paid cash.
    We guessed they were laundering drug money.
     
  10. Consumer Reports bases their recommendations on a weighted list of attributes and test methods. They are usually up-front with their methods, but their results are only important if you agree with that list. In this case, CR found variations in battery life between 16 hours and 4.5 hours. It is not clear what caused this variation and the effect their test methods.
    Other publications criticize the new MacBook Pro for having only Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports, in addition to a headphone port. While this means users will need a battery of dongles to interface their existing peripherals, the performance of the new interface is so high, it is likely these disadvantages will quickly diminish in importance.
    I am not disturbed that Apple eliminated the memory card reader. Readers are subject to a lot of wear, and I go through one or two a year. For about $20 each, I am happy to use external readers, replacing them as necessary.
    Thunderbolt 3 to 2 adapters are hard to come by for now, but I managed to find a couple. I also found a nice hub with three USB 3 ports and an SD card reader, and a TB 2 to Firewire 800 adapter for my audio interface rack.
    Batteries, hard drives and memory are soldered in place, not replaceable.
    My new 13" MacBook Pro, with scroll bar, should arrive just after the New Year.
     
  11. I normally respect Consumer Reports but I remember years ago they panned the Dyson vacuum cleaner for some reason. I bought one anyone and it's been great for at least ten years. Still going strong.
     
  12. I agree with you 100% Dave. Consumers loves Hoover vacs which I've owned and broke after their warranty. Several
    times. Got a Dyson ball; love it. Runs and runs low past it's warranty. Consumers loves all Kenmore. I've had mixed
    success. I am a subscriber but do not think all their findings are sound.
     
  13. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    amazon.com "best sellers" is a great metric on what is hot and what is not. It's interesting to follow and see what people are buying.

    It seems that the much awaited new MacBook Pro has failed to get a recommendation from Consumer Reports for the first time in Apple history.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-macbook-pro-2016-consumer-reports-2016-12
    Is it really an inferior product or are they splitting hairs in their criticism of the new MacBook Pro's battery performance?​

    It's not just battery problems. Others are having gpu issues, over-heating issues, and many are returning them because they are slower than their current MBP. Mac rumours forum is filled with threads...I've never seen anything like it; the pitch-forks are out. If you're doing video and able to take advantage of the write speeds of nmve ssd, you'll notice that it's faster than previous years. However if like myself and doing Lr and Ps and rely on ram, cpu, and gpu, the 2016 is slower. The monitor is nice though.
    Some good posts here from Lloyd.
    Pages keyworded by “2016 MacBook Pro” at macperformanceguide.com https://macperformanceguide.com/related.html?dglyKW=2016%20MacBook%20Pro
     
  14. amazon.com "best sellers" is a great metric on what is hot and what is not. It's interesting to follow and see what people are buying.​
    And here's what the buyers on Amazon are stating thus far (13-inch Laptop with Touch Bar):
    5 star: 53%
    4 star: 17%
    3 star: 9%
    2 star: 8%
    1 star: 13%
    the pitch-forks are out.​
    Certainly from armchair reviewers, some without a lick of experience using the product.
     
  15. Look at CR's reviews of things of which you have personal expertise, cameras for example, and see how their priorities and rankings hold up. By the time I was in high school, I learned to be highly skeptical af anything CR published. Their burgeoning political activism about that time clinched it for me.
     
  16. Norman 202

    Norman 202 i am the light

    By the time I was in high school, I learned to be highly skeptical af anything CR published. Their burgeoning political activism about that time clinched it for me.
    i became highly skeptical of apple when the eu revealed the extent of their tax dodging. they are completely amoral and i won't buy another apple product until they pay up.
     
  17. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    And here's what the buyers on Amazon are stating thus far (13-inch Laptop with Touch Bar):​

    Yes, aware. I'm not sure why you think going to the effort of finding and posting Amazon data is somehow counter to an argument I'm not even making? MBP historically sells well when first released, it's nothing new. Two months ago though, the first MBP was in eleventh spot, on page two of amazon best sellers. I use Amazon instead of otherwise reviews on biased sites that are monetizing off adverts or clicks.
    Certainly from armchair reviewers, some without a lick of experience using the product.​

    That's big coming from someone that can't even do a simple Lr import test for us and compare his 2013 to the 2016.
    http://www.photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00eB7U

    (Wish to go another 100 replies? An easy peaceful solution for all of Pn is to just stop quoting me in threads.)
     
  18. Yes, aware. I'm not sure why you think going to the effort of finding and posting Amazon data is somehow counter to an argument I'm not even making?​
    No effort to find and post facts about the current ratings of a product from actual users you and a few others (some with, some without experience) are posting from armchairs (at Starbucks?).
    MBP historically sells well when first released, it's nothing new.​
    Indeed, the sales records (posted here in another thread) are off the charts.
    That's big coming from someone that can't even do a simple Lr import test for us and compare his 2013 to the 2016.​
    Wrong again. I provided tests that proved (to me, an actual experienced user of the product) that my new MPB was faster than my older one. And with every other function I've used since day one! You don't want to accept the facts based on actual experience and don't like the number of files I tested, fine. Go to an Apple store and run your own tests and report them here (not that I care, I'm super happy with my purchase).
    (Wish to go another 100 replies? An easy peaceful solution for all of Pn is to just stop quoting me in threads.)​
    I'm only reporting the FUD and misinformation from someone with no experience with the product. As I stated above, I've got a few weeks of daily use of a product you haven't (yet you tell us how nice the display is, so telling) and will be happy to report all my opinions, good, bad and even the few ugly, based on actual usage to anyone who wishes to know.

    As I also stated in the last post on this subject: If you don't like the spec's or attributes of the new product, don't buy one. If I need an opinion on how to infect all my files with a virus from someone with actual experience doing so, I'll ask you for the details.
     
  19. I do not subscribe to CR and therefore have not read the report.
    Extreme Tech has read the report. Here is their take on it:
    https://www.extremetech.com/computing/241593-apples-new-macbook-pro-first-macbook-consumer-reports-wont-recommend
    It appears the down check is due to battery life.
     
  20. The price of the product has a lot of weight in Consumer Report review.​
    Not true. They may label a product a "Best Buy," meaning it tested well and is low in price, but the tests themselves are independent of price.
     
  21. I normally respect Consumer Reports but I remember years ago they panned the Dyson vacuum cleaner for some reason. I bought one anyone and it's been great for at least ten years. Still going strong.​
    That was for dust emissions if I remember correctly.
     
  22. At MacRumors there's an article that goes into some more detail on the test and says that Phil Schiller is negotiating with them, interesting. There's something about a battery life difference between using Safari and using Chrome, even more interesting. As the famous Tallulah Bankhead or someone else may have said, "There may be less to this than meets the eye."
     
  23. Their burgeoning political activism about that time clinched it for me.​
    What activism is that? Do you mean advocating for laws and regulations for things like safety belts, airbags, clean water, etc.?
     
  24. I've been a long time Consumer Reports subscriber and find their information invaluable. They have been ahead of the curve on many issues. They have saved, or more properly, lengthened countless lives with their safety recommendations for many items, not just cars. Sometimes they seem to worry about different things than I do, on cameras for example, but on safety, from cars to window blinds, they're spot on. Safety is not political.
     
  25. I remember back in the 70's, my dad visited Japan and brought me back a Nikon F (no meter). Cameras and lenses wee much cheaper in Japan and Hong Kong than the U.S. in those days. I remember reading a review of DSLRs in Consumer Reports and they ranked my Nikon F #13 (probably for lack of features). I was crushed. That didn't deter me and I still have that Nikon F today with a bunch of Nippon Kogaku lenses. All of the equipment still works great and the shutter action is a delight to hear and feel.
     
  26. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    There's something about a battery life difference between using Safari and using Chrome, even more interesting.​
    Chrome is known to be the most resource-intensive browser out of the big three and will effect battery life on a laptop more than the others.
     
  27. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    Wrong again. I provided tests that proved (to me, an actual experienced user of the product) that my new MPB was faster than my older one.​

    Tests? Where? All I know is that after repeated requests for a simple Lr import/export test between the 2013 and the 2016 mbp, that everyone else on the webernet can preform, you instead timed the duration of copying 17 raw files from memory card to their desktops. Then without even using an Adobe product in that test, you somehow determined that Lr and Ps is quicker on your 2016 mbp. Meanwhile, respectable individuals and bloggers have posted their rigours testing methods and conclude that Lr and Ps is sower on the 2016. But you say otherwise?
     
  28. Tests? Where? All I know is that after repeated requests for a simple Lr import/export test between the 2013 and the 2016 mbp, that everyone else on the webernet can preform, you instead timed the duration of copying 17 raw files from memory card to their desktops.​
    Eric, your idea of setting up testing methodology is as confused as the rest of your posts here. The parameters I specifically asked for were of course misunderstood by you and ignored so I ran a test you missed by your own admission (you ask Where? Then comment) that doesn't involve any ambiguities and of course, the new MBP was faster than the old!

    Andrew Rodney [​IMG][​IMG], Nov 29, 2016; 10:36 a.m.
    Bring (Import) them into LR how Barry? Just the setting for generation of each previews (Minimal vs. 1:1) would make a difference in the time this takes (although you can begin working just after import).
     
  29. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    Mr Ad Hominem, I'm not sure how you can flat out lie to us when the link to the thread is contained in this thread? How about saving everyone the trouble of revisiting it and just re-post the method and results of your Lr test between your two mbps?
     
  30. Mr. fact denier. IF and WHEN you can figure out the testing parameters for import asked for, maybe I will. Or do I need to teach you that the configuration for importing data into LR differs and the settings affect the time it takes to import images?
    The one test provided however is clear to those of us on Planet Earth who understand how time operates: the new MBP was faster than the older one.
     
  31. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    (I guess we're going for another 100 replies...)

    the new MBP was faster than the older one.​
    Was? What happened to it? Returned it due to a number of the issues they are having? But now it makes sense why you wont do a simple Lr speed test comparison between your old and new...you don't have one!
    IF and WHEN you can figure out the testing parameters for import asked for, maybe I will.​
    Maybe you wont. In the "other" thread ( http://www.photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00eB7U ) you also danced around with insults while avoiding a simple Lr speed comparison test. I don't know about anyone else, but with all the know-it-all chest-pounding and badgering you do here and elsewhere with everyone over the decades, one can't help but think that this Lr test should be an easy task for your apparent skill set. Your Lr workflow is fine as one would assume they would be set up similarly on both machines by now. Real world use would be to import 1000 raws, continue to work while building previews, select all, make some adjustments or apply a preset perhaps, then export to jpg size 12 with sharpening. Really basic stuff. Chop chop, please come back with some numbers and prove to us that spending $5000 on a 2016 MBP and dongles has actually sped up Lr!
     
  32. The new MBP was faster in the test and continues to be faster today. And it continues to run fine and make my very happy in my buying decision. I'm sorry the reality of this fact continues to ruin your sad and insignificant life on Planet Eric.
    Real world use would be to import 1000 raws​
    Perhaps if only you lived in a real world instead of on Planet Eric. But as I wrote earlier, go to an Apple store and run your own tests (if you can figure out sound and methodical testing parameters once you understand how Importing into LR actually works) and provide your own results. IF you can.

    And no, I didn't pay anything close to $5000 on my MBP, at least using US dollars on Planet Earth.
    That you have to make up such ridiculous text illustrates that the absurd is the last refuge of a pundit without an argument. Or a clue!
     
  33. I have no agenda in posting actual, daily experience with the 2016 15" MPB (unlike Eric who's got zero). I have no Apple stock. I could care less if anyone buys this product, an older MPB product or a PC! Eric's agenda seems to be always trying to disagree with me, someone who has far more actual experience with this product, professional photography, digital imaging and color than Eric does. Eric's agenda is one only he could come up with from Planet Eric, and should be taken with a massive grain of salt.
    IF anyone has questions, wants to know what I don't like about this product and wants honest, fact based, experience based answers, do ask. Otherwise, this back and forth with someone who no chops and an agenda is rather pointless and a vortex of confusion and a waste of all our time. That's probably why most have left this thread as I hope to do as well!
    As Benjamin Franklin said: "Experience is a hard teacher, but fools will have no other." Some fools have little to no experience and continue to post foolish text. Ignore it
     
  34. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    Yawn...just a skipping record with more words and no results. It's no wonder you're not on social media trying to pull this make-believe crap.
     
  35. Yawn...just a skipping record with more words and no results. It's no wonder you're not on social media trying to pull this make-believe crap.​
    It is always my pleasure to go out of my way to make you look the fool. Someone with not much experience but with a massive opinion with no basis in fact. As such, here are some real world speed results:
    Import 122 CR2's from a Canon 5DMII.

    NEW 2016 MacBook Pro: 3 minutes, 11 seconds
    OLD 2013 MacBook Pro: 4 minutes 27 seconds.
    Import and convert to DNG, create standard Previews.
    16GB 400X card using USB 3 card reader.
    On Planet Earth, not Planet Eric, the new MBP is faster at this task!
    Now from Planet Eric, we'll be told some utter rubbish about not using enough images for import, something about how could I be only using a 16GB card or what an armchair photographer I am for shooting on a 5DMII or how the tests are invalid because I also converted to DNG etc, etc, etc. The sole inhabitant on Planet Eric is a fool! He posts FUD. He has so little experience in telling us about a MPB he's never used, or recommending displays he's never seen, or telling us about how we should protect and back up our files when he's the victim of computer virus. He'll tell us how I am an armchair photographer when the FACT is, I've got far more experience at that profession than he does (we can go there if you want facts to embarrass you further Eric, I'm armed and ready).
    Do you ever get the feeling prior to posting here that what you're writing isn't utterly foolish? What a sad, confused, opinionated by fact less reality you must be living; I almost, almost feel sorry for you.
     
  36. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    Congratulations! But why did it take weeks to do this little test? Is this how long it took Apple to replace your first 2016?
    Planet Eric. I love that so much I bought the domain! http://planeteric.ca/. Thanks Andrew, you're the best!
     
  37. Is this how long it took Apple to replace your first 2016?​
    More foolish text from your unreality bubble! It's of course the same MacBook Pro I received; no replacement, no need for one. And it's still faster than the old.
     
  38. Thanks Andrew, you're the best!​
    Sarcasm or not, that too is a massively naive and foolish comment.
     
  39. The criticism of the product had to do with battery issues.​
    And Consumers misunderstandings of how to run Safari it seems!
    http://www.macworld.com/article/3156350/macs/apple-resolves-the-macbook-pro-battery-life-issues-found-in-consumer-reports-testing.html

    In its statement, Consumer Reports said that when it turned caching on and did an initial set of retests, the MacBook Pro produced “consistently high battery life results.” Consumer Reports said it is retesting the MacBook Pro and will update its review.
    “This is not a setting used by customers and does not reflect real-world usage,” Apple said in a statement.
    I have Developer mode ON as well as it's default so, no battery issue.
    And it's still faster than my old MBP!
     
  40. Consumer Reports turns caching off on all its laptop battery tests. The problem was a bug in Safari, not caching turned off. It will be very interesting to see what happens after the re-test now that the bug is fixed.
     
  41. Indeed Dave, it is a bug in Safari but I agree with Apple that the setting doesn't reflect what most users would see as AFAIK, the default is on. Apple states they will fix the bug which is good!
    It will be very interesting to see what happens after the re-test now that the bug is fixed.​
    I presume it will be what we now see with the setting on and Consumers reported that when it turned caching on and did an initial set of retests, the MacBook Pro produced “consistently high battery life results.”
    More here:
    http://www.powerpage.org/apple-consumer-reports-find-smoking-gun-that-caused-variable-life-in-initial-review/
    “[Consumer Reports’] use of this developer setting also triggered an obscure and intermittent bug reloading icons which created inconsistent results in their lab. After we asked Consumer Reports to run the same test using normal user settings, they told us their MacBook Pro systems consistently delivered the expected battery life.”
     
  42. You can get the bug fix on Apple's Beta site, I think. Otherwise, you have to wait awhile for an OS update.
     
  43. Consumer Reports (on this planet) updates its MacBook Pro review with a recommendation
    http://www.macworld.com/article/3157544/macbook/consumer-reports-updates-its-macbook-pro-review-with-a-recommendation.html
    After discovering the Safari bug, Apple created a fix, and Consumer Reports reran its battery life test. On its website, Consumer Reports said that the new MacBook Pro, “all performed well.” The publication tested a 13-inch Touch Bar model, a 13-inch non-Touch Bar model, and a 15-inch model. The retests resulted in battery life of 15.75 hours, 18.75 hours, and 17.25 hours, respectively.
     
  44. http://www.powerpage.org/apples-market-share-grows-in-q4-2016-following-launch-of-macbook-pro-with-touch-bar/
    Apple apparently gained some market share in the fourth quarter of 2016 thanks to the refreshed MacBook Pro with the Touch Bar built in.
    The latest data from research firms Gartner and IDC show Apple gaining ground in the PC industry, despite the market continuing to slow as a whole. IDC’s new data shows that 70.2 million PCs shipped in the fourth quarter of 2016, marking a 1.5 percent year-on-year decline, but showing a continued stabilization of the market.
    For the year, IDC says that PC shipments hit 260 million, down 5.7 percent compared to 2015. Worldwide, Apple saw its marketshare rise from 7.4 percent in Q4 2015 to 7.5 percent, though overall shipments fell by .9 percent for the year as a whole. Overall, Apple ranks as the fourth largest PC vendor worldwide, with Lenovo coming in at the top, followed by HP and Dell.

    The rise in Apple’s market share seems to have been boosted by the late 2016 MacBook Pro.
     
  45. In other news, the entire editorial staff of Consumer Reports is on an all-expense-paid vacation in Hawaii. Just kidding, just kidding.
     
  46. MacOS Sierra 10.12.3 update fixes the Safari bug that affected MacBook Pro battery life.
    http://www.macworld.com/article/3159737/macs/macos-sierra-10123-update-fixes-the-safari-bug-that-affected-macbook-pro-battery-life.html
     
  47. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

  48. You mean LG! On planet Earth, LG not Apple built that product! But thanks for an opinion built with alternative facts.
     
  49. One has to wonder if Eric thinks that every product in the Apple store is a product they built and tested.
    One has to wonder if Eric thinks that every product in on B&H Photo is a product they built and tested.
    One has to wonder if Eric thinks that every product on Amazon is a product they built and tested.
    One has to wonder if Eric thinks (before, during or after he posts here).
    And soon, a word from someone who's not a sponsor (of this site) with more hilarious text from a planet far, far away in a vortex of unreality. Sit back, relax, it's coming.....
    What the hell is going on with quality control over at Planet Eric? ;-)
     

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