Ashamed ...

Before you read this, please understand that I'm not asking you to look at my portfolio, in fact, I'd prefer that

you don't. I'm just trying to get some honest feedback from others who participate in the forum.

 

Am I alone here? The longer I'm on PN, the more inept I feel. There are so many wonderful photographers who

present such WONDERFUL work that I'm often left feeling terribly ashamed of my sad attempts. I'm self-taught and

have never taken a formal class in photography. (Community classes only seem to reach remedial photogs.) I read

and try to understand, but sometimes it's like I'm reading Greek--I don't have too many "Ah ha!" moments. I can see

the picture in my mind, I can see the picture through the lens, but it never makes it into the camera. I'm left

wondering if it's technique or equipment, but never put my finger on it. The other day I attempted to shoot a freshly-

mowed hay field (just before the bundles were rolled). I caught it just before sunset and the light seemed perfect. I

tried several different angles and camera settings, bracketing, etc., but when I got home, I found flaws in everything--

grey hazy sky that detracted from the field, bluish looking rows of hay--yuck!

 

I'm just wondering if I'm the only one who feels like this? What about those who have been on PN for years: Did you

ever feel like that? Has your work improved or do you just have the natural ability and talent?

I feel like that all the time.

 

It doesn't paralyze me with insecurity - I just keep plugging along, trying harder... (and improving - at least I

think so...)

 

FWIW, I like the photos in your pnet portfolio...

I've been humbled by the talent I've seen on this site since I joined, and it kicked my butt to learn more and get better. It's been a good motivator. Sounds like you had some contrast and white balance issues in your example. Hit the books! Good luck.

RR

There will always be people that are better than you. Always. This is a fact of life. Many people accept this and still work towards improving their images.

 

[[...have never taken a formal class in photography. (Community classes only seem to reach remedial photogs.)]]

 

How do you know this if you've never actually taken a photography class?

 

[[i'm left wondering if it's technique or equipment,]]

 

As the photographer is the one responsible for image capture, I don't see how it could be anything but the photographers responsibility.

 

[[i tried several different angles and camera settings, bracketing, etc., but when I got home, I found flaws in everything-- grey hazy sky that detracted from the field, bluish looking rows of hay--yuck! ]]

 

If you're not capturing your image in a RAW file format, did you adjust the white balance before shooting? Did you meter different parts of the scene? Did you shoot any photographs that eliminated the sky completely from the frame?

Hi Laura,

 

I too feel the way you do on occasion, but oone thing you must always remember. Just like many other things in life, you muxt hzve confidence in what you are doing, and creating, and keep learning.

If nothing else, this forum, and p-net can be an excellent learing tool. I too looked at your portfolio, and i, like Geoff, like your work. Congrats.

 

Cheers

Photography takes time to learn. The 'non technical' parts of photography (people skills, timing, luck) take even longer to learn.

 

Just keep trucking, you'll get there.

Being a memebr of Photo.net can be a humbling experience, but you can't be too hard on yourself or you will never grow. I think PN helped me improve my photography. I look at some of the pictures I'm taking now and what I took 5 years ago and I think I improved a notch. Of course there was also formal schooling and Digital photography.

 

Actually you don't have to be the best photographer in the world to earn a living, (just good enough) if that was the case, there would be allot of starving photographers. There is also such thing as artistic aptitude, you don't have to have it, but it helps. Many art/photography schools test students before letting them enroll in certain curriculums. The most important thing is that you and your clients are happy with your work. It's good to be self critical though, that means there is plenty room for growth.

It takes work to translate what you see into a photo.

 

I've never felt ashamed of my efforts because it's like anything else, the more you do it, the more you learn how to do it. It looks

like you're already learning from your mistakes, that's part of it.

 

Photography isn't so much a way of seeing as a way of thinking about what you see.

 

--Sally

sounds to me that you need photoshop instruction more than anything... especially in this day and age, blue hay is really a non-issue, and although its better to get things right in camera, in some situations its impossible. Most pictures that have the sky and the ground in them at the same time require bracketing and then reconstructing for the best results: You either end up with blah skies or dark ground in any individual exposure, so things look terrible in camera. (unless you have a special graduated ND filter designed with so that it darkens the sky only.)

 

I would venture to guess that the vast majority of pictures you see here are edited in some way or another, and my personal photography typically goes from okay to wow only after editing, sometimes massive editing.

 

while I, and others, always trumpet the idea of shooting raw, the default settings almost always come up a little flat... and if you are shooting jpeg, I find it harder to tweak in the camera than I do afterwards, so thats hard too...

 

Editing makes the biggest difference between okay photographs and great ones.

 

I am totally distracted, so I am sure this is a bit disjointed, but hopefully you get the point!

 

keep shooting, and keep editing!

Hi Laura,

 

I peeked at your portfolio. Looks ok.

 

So, what is it that you're trying to do with photography? Have you thought about it?

 

I think a photographer needs a mission beyond taking nice pictures, otherwise, one might just be trying to reproduce stuff already seen in

publications etc, and without really thinking it trough.

 

There is a real difference between experiencing a time and place and recreating the emotion in a photograph. Since I'm rambling on here I'll

speculate that perhaps one shouldn't even try...

 

So, I think you could benefit by having a "mission" to communicate something with a photograph. An assignment or many assignments. It won't

matter how good you are technically if what you choose to photograph is not interesting to someone not standing in your shoes at that moment.

 

Abstraction and simplification are often part of what makes a strong visual statement. Have you thought of taking art classes? I think they might

be more valuable to you than a community photography course. Photographers can get caught up in "geek" stuff like equipment. Maybe artists

will talk and teach about visualization.

Community classes only seem to reach remedial photogs.)

 

I think that before you decide that community colleges only seem to reach only remedial photographers you should go to your community colleges and talk to the professors there. They might open your eyes to vast worlds you had no idea existed.

 

As to comparing yourself to others I have had to understand that I can't do certain types of photography, it just doesn't sync in my head. So I had to find my niche and work from where I am truly inspired.

As mentioned above by a couple of folks: post processing, post processing, post processing. Not to REPLACE

getting the shot(s) as well as you can, but with the understanding that capturing the image in the camera is only the

beginning of the process - digital or otherwise.

<br><br>

By all means, shoot in RAW and give yourself the latitude to adjust white balance and curves with more latitude

afterwards. Your D80 can give you lots of room to work. Try downloading Nikon's 60-day free trial of Capture NX, and

see how it treats you. You'll need at least a couple weeks of using it steadily before you'll get some of the nuances...

but you'll really appreciate the ability to work with color issues, brightness, and contrast in troublesome areas of your

image without having to go into PS and using masks and layers. It's not a panacea, but it's a tool you should try,

since it likes Nikon's NEF files and knows what to do with them.

<br><Br>

Since you mentioned hayfields... <a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/7512175&size=lg"><b>right

here</b></a> is a rather pedestrian shot taken on a graying morning alongside a hayfield. The light was getting

lousy, since clouds were rolling in. I decided to get a little fanciful in post production to make the image come across

more like how I'd first seen the field an hour before the shot while driving by. That link above is to a look at it finished,

but the image below is a before/after in Capture NX - you can see how the RAW image looks, and what a few

mouseclicks is doing to help with the look and feel. It's not a favorite by any means, but it's an example.<div></div>

Hi Laura,

 

I often feel the way you do and I have been shooting for many years. I looked at your portfolio and i think you are doing fine. Just keep going forward. It is the only direction. May I offer some advice.... Shoot under soft light such as the first two hours after sunrise and before sunset, under shade or under overcast skys. Broad daylight is a loosing proposition. You cannot win. Your images are a bit soft (out of focus). Try using a faster shutter speed or a tripod. Tripods are wonderful tools, they make you slow down, look, feel and compose before you push the button. With a tripod you don;t need a fast, expensive lens. If you are not looking at a subject that makes you "feel," it is not a worthy subject. Move on. In my film days I read books by John Hedgeco (sp). I belive that he writes for digital today. Mr. H covers the technical and artistic side of the craft very well. He also writes well and brings the complicated down to the beginners' level. Also, edit, edit ,edit. Be your own critic. When I was learning I kept maybe 2 pictures out of each 100. My last suggestion, if you have multiple lenses, switch them out, each for an entire day. limit yourself to an entire day of shooting through a single focal length. Doing so will make you see differently and you will become a better photographer. I wish you the very best in you endevor. Go forward...

 

If you have any question, feel free to ask.

 

Best regards, Doug

I can't thank the great photographers on photo.net enough. I think between having a digital camera, which allows

me to take photo after photo with different camera settings and different lighting and without having to pay film

developing costs and photo.net forums and photographer galleries, my education in photography has just jumped

leaps and bounds.

 

Just a couple things I've learned from reading photo.net forums and just observing photographer's galleries that

might apply to your hayfield pics... 1. Unless stitching photos, filters are a must have for the landscape shot,

i.e. your hayfield. You're never going to get the sky you want (in one shot) without filters. 2. Photoshop is

a part of life with digital photography. One has to almost learn Photoshop at the same rate as learning

photography. (You can remove that blue haze!) 3. Shooting in RAW. I never would have had a clue if it wasn't

for these forums.

 

Sometimes I look at some of these galleries and physically feel sick to my stomach. Some of these people are

that good. But it only makes me strive to be better. Are the shots in my portfolio even close to what I want to

do or what I visualize? Heck no! Not even close! ! But I look forward to the challenge and try to apply

something I've learned here with every test session.

 

Keep on trying and know that there are others on PN that feel just as frustrated sometimes! Hang in there. And

BTW, I just ran into a friend the other day who took an online photography course with a major college in another

state. She really loved the teacher, and the class, even online, was very interactive and project oriented. I'm

thinking about looking into this myself. ...something to think about. ;-)

I looked anyway. I like your stuff. You have an excellent sense of timing with sports. Your photos are clean and highlight the moments well, imo. I would suggest getting Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson. Really good book on understanding the basic things about any camera. Me, I'm nowhere even close to where I'd like to be. I just don't have the time to shoot and learn, but I am progressing, albeit slowly. This site is filled with some pretty amazing individuals and it's a great place to learn. The fact that you love what you do will help you to pursue your goal. You only fail when you give up. Otherwise you just found a lot of ways that don't work. Keep plugging. :)

Hi Laura,

 

I just wanted to add that I took a look at your portfolio, and I think your baseball pictures are great!

 

We can strive to learn more and go in different directions, but sometimes our talents, for good or bad, find us.

 

Maija

Thanks everyone for your input so far. I hope more will join in.

 

Rob, to answer your questions, the only recent community class was “Get to Know your Digital Camera” and it dealt

with downloading from the point-and-shoot camera to the computer, cropping, and then emailing to family and

friends. I know how to do that. I was even approached to teach one with our county extension classes. LOL! To all

the remaining questions, yes. I grew up using my trusty film SLR. However strange this sounds, it was easier

getting the picture to paper. The digital camera is wonderful and it has made it so much easier to keep up with my

son. But now, with that same wonderful camera, a lot more work has to either go into taking the picture or making

computer adjustments after it’s taken. No matter how easy it is to take digital pictures, it seems even harder to get

them to paper. I’ll trudge on, make the adjustments in Capture NX, and hope I find the secret formula to all the bells

and whistles on these computerized cameras.

 

Sally, I like what you said, “Photography isn't so much a way of seeing as a way of thinking about what you see.” I

think I’m going to frame that. Thanks.

 

B G, I think you have a great idea. Perhaps a study in art and visualization would help in making a better visual

statement. “Mission statement.” We all have an individual purpose, don’t we? I’ll have to formulate one. Does

anyone have a mission statement they’d like to share?

 

Matt, I so admire your work. I’m so glad you shared post-processing. I thought all of yours came out perfect like

that! You give me hope.

 

Maija (and everyone else who confirms that post-processing is just as important as capturing the photo), thanks. I

guess comparing digital and film is like comparing apples to oranges (sorry, worn out idiom). I’ve been dragging my

feet, not wanting to spend too much time in the post-processing room, feeling like I wouldn't have to if I improved my

technique or equipment (which I know I still need to do). But if I understand you correctly, taking the photo is only

the first half of the work and post-processing is the second.

B G's response above kind of hits the nail on the head. I will add two things:<p>Regardless of its merits, your work is invested and alive (yes, I peeked, too), and it could well be slick but stale and derivative. To keep your work alive, avoid comparing it with other works. Look at other works, admire them, and steal from them--but steal technique only. Regard your subject and your response to it as incomparable, and a worthy application of technique. Fuss with your work and be appalled at its flaws, exactly as you're doing now, and it will acquire merit. Which brings us to the second point.<p>

To produce works of merit, it is not enough to steal. One must also cheat. Robert Gulotta's suggestion to learn more about post-processing is a good one, because it opens up the possibility of so many controls on the process, and so is B G's suggestion of an art class. Art is wonderful because it opens your eyes to so many ways of fudging an image to produce a window on reality.<p>You might consider starting a new thread with one of the pictures giving you pain, explain what you dislike about it, and let the mavens here Photoshop it, explaining the steps they took in the process. The results would be nothing like you envision, of course, but you'd have some idea of the controls that are possible.

<i>I thought all of yours came out perfect like that!</i>

<br><br>

Hey, I didn't know PN had a new comedy forum!

<br><br>

That's rich, Laura. Nope - just as you'd expect the lab handling prints from your negatives to have a go at making the

most of color cast and contrast issues, your new lab (you!) are on the hook to do that.

<br><br>

Well, sort of. You can always walk the memory card right into a drug store, plug it into their kiosk, and have have

them crank out a pile of prints. They'll make some of them look better, and some of them mediocre. The "old" way of

doing things is still available, with the same ups and downs of letting any old lab handle your film for you. When you

wanted real <i>art</i> from your film, you had a pro lab take care of the print. Same story here... there are post-

production pros for hire (cheap!)... or, you can tackle it yourself. In a way, the long hours you can spend cleaning up

after a bad decision about exposure while out in the field is a great way to concentrate your mind for the next outing.

<br><br>

You'll get there. Skillfully recording an event (say, baseball) as you've done eludes many people. Artfully expressing

yourself in a thought-provoking or evocative shot eludes <i>most</i> people. You obviously know what you like, and

that's a great start, right there. The fact that you're seeing the image in your mind, in advance, means you're already

wired for this, in a way that many people never will be.

Yes it takes time as some have pointed out. Time, if used wisely, can get you the right techniques. But that's just the back end. What no course or formal training can teach you however is how to take great photographs. It's a creative art and for that you need at least a certain amount of talent. That can be devoloped given time. That's the front end. Looking at your work here I see no reason why you couldn't do it. Just find a good mentor in any form or shape, that would be a good start.

Also you'd do well to remember that learning never stops.

Great photography is the result of 90% hard work and perseverance and 10% talent. I wish you lots of luck and above all pleasure

Nobody Is born a photographer. Like most endeavors in life it is an acquired skill. I look at it as a journey

and like any journey there will be good days and bad, but hopeful the days will add up to getting better all the

time. I am in awe of many of the talented photographers on this site. Viewing the work of photographers of great

skill and talent is inspiring and motivational. I except that I am not able to fully achieve my vision so I push

on to get closer to that goal today than I was yesterday. As you master the craft the divide between what your

minds eye sees and what the camera records will narrow. Still no matter what your skill level disappointments

will be a part of the learning process. As has been mentioned you just have to roll with the punches.

If you want to be the best then prepare to work hard and even then you might discover that you're not up to it. If, on the other hand, you just want to document events of your life and express yourself in a manner that satisfies you then your situation is easier, it generally requires some hard work over a long time.

 

Don't be too hard on yourself if you start playing with Capture NX -- it's so slow that I only do rough adjustments with it and fine tune in Photoshop. Crashes every now and then too. Get some decent image editor and try to read through material about how to work on images while you work on them. For example, I've found books by Katrin Eismann and Bruce Fraser to be quite good.

Laura,

May I suggest you go to Ken Rockwells site, which is www.kenrockwell.com.

When you go to his site, you will see a picture of him holding his baby daughter. Above the picture, you will see "everything I know about taking pictures."

He has a ton of information for photographers.

Some peole like his site, and others do not; but he has a good heart.

I hope this will help you.

Oskar: make sure you're using Capture NX v2, or the most recent patch for v1.3. And, don't bother using it without at least 2GB of RAM (which costs about as much as a decent delivery pizza, so there are no excuses for people who also spend lots of money on their cameras and lenses). I use NX on multiple laptops, servers, and workstations... under Vista, Windows XP (pro, home, with and without SP3), and Server 2003. Unlike the earlier versions, it's quick and stable. Version 2's spot healing and other important new features make it worth a try. But don't use it on an anemic machine, or one with a highly fragmented, crowded hard drive.

I've found creativity and inspiration to come and go in waves. Sometimes I'll have a good idea and I'll put forth the effort to bring the idea to fruition. The vast majority of my ideas have never come to fruition. Sometimes I have no good ideas at all. A lot of the time, I just get discouraged by knowing how much my ideas will cost. I look at thousands of other people's photos hoping to get some good ideas from them. Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't. I remind myself that my best work is yet to come and I keep working at it. Hopefully, I'll work at it till the day I die.

 

You've just got to decide what really floats your boat, make a plan to create such work, and stick to the plan. I would think that for each great photo you see on P/N, the photographer has shot tons more crap that you don't see.