35mm will they stop processing it soon?

Discussion in 'Film and Processing' started by sblain, May 9, 2010.

  1. I just started shouting film and love it, I especialy like the fact that I find 35mm print film on sale at $1 or less per roll. I buy dozens each time I see them on sale.
    many place like walmart or maxi will process them at a resonable price, however some places charge 3-4 times as much for the same service, this make me wonder if procesing prices will sky roket until it simply dont make sens to shout film anymore?
    also are the film days near doom?
    whats your opinions on this.
    rgds
     
  2. If I had a dollar for every time someone posted film's demise . . .
    I say shoot 'em if you got 'em.
     
  3. Time to close this one.
     
  4. This question has been asked as long as I've been here. In 2003, there was a guy named Jay on the Leica forum, who confidently predicted there would be no more 120 film in five years. Well, it's been seven years now, and I'm still shooting 120 film, but the selection of film and processing in my city isn't as good as it was, so now I use mail order for both.
    Nobody knows, but I think you will find the same thing happens with 35mm. In a few years, you may not get your C41 (color neg) processing at Walmart, but you'll be fine sending it off to North Coast or Dwayne's. If you use black and white, you'll have no problem getting materials for developing and printing for decades to come, but you might have to mail-order them.
    And no, the film days are not near doom. Film is still used by a lot of high-end amateurs and professionals for their personal and creative work, so there's a market, but it's much smaller than it was 15 years ago.
     
  5. I think it's not going to disappear. It's declined but sort of leveled out. It seems like I'm seeing more film shooting going on now than a couple years ago.
    Cheap processing and expensive processing have always coexisted. $3-4 isn't really expensive, it's medium. Expensive is $10-20 and gets you pro service. Cheap is $1-2 and gets you service that might be good or might not - the machine may not have been calibrated recently, the chemicals might not have been changed recently, colors might not come out great or you might get scratches or fingerprints. $4 at a local shop usually gets you better service than a chain drugstore, with employees who know what they're doing.
     
  6. i think the issue will come when the infrastructure starts taking a hit. there are a lot of things that make film work. camera repair could become a thing of the past, and my FD equipment isnt getting any younger. but, i'll worry about it when i have to worry about it. for now, i'll just grumble over 13 f%^n dollars for slide film that came back with a perfectly straight line 4mm from the top of each frame.
     
  7. 35mm film will be the last format standing. Hollywood still loves film. That will keep the infrastructure for producing 35mm still film going for many years to come.
     
  8. Les and Larry, why so rude to the poster? This question deserves to be asked again and again because the answer can change as time changes. So the answers provide X years ago are far less accurate then those of today.
    I was told by a big-wig at Walmart three weeks ago that new stores and stores that are to be renovated will not provide film development. Many other chains are dropping film development.
    Now having wrote that, this is not to say that film is going away. I think this is indicative of the fact that convenient film processing is the thing that is going away.
    The bigger worry is not so much when film is going way, but rather at what cost will film and processing shoot up to. As less and less of the general public shoo film there will be less of a demand for processing in every drug store, Walmart, Target, Sears, etc, etc, and that will force costs up.
    I think 120 will be available 10 years from now but it will cost you a lot of money. 35mm will be with us even longer.
    Really, the number one reason to shoot film over digital is the wider dynamic range that film provides over digital, and I think what will really damage film usage is when digital finally matches and exceeds film for DR, and when that happens I would not want to be carrying any stock in any film companies.
    Of course there is the film look that strongly seduces us all, and perhaps that will keep us paying $20 a roll in 15 years for the stuff.
     
  9. Dan,
    To be sure, there is nothing to worry about because worrying about it doesn't change anything - doing something about it does. And I say shoot 'em if you got 'em.
     
  10. I am shooting more film then ever. I recently purchased a medium format camera. I was worried about the costs. I send out through walmart and develop and 10 proofs cost me $1.44. The proofs look fine and the negatives are clean and have not been scratched. E6 ran me around $6.00.
    $1.44, I thought it was a mistake. I feel free to shoot almost "limitless" now.
    There are film lovers and artists all over the world. I wish they could buy film as inexpensively as we can here in America. The markets will change but film will always be there.
    I also think that someday digital cameras will be so commoditized (spelling?) that there won't be much profit in the cameras and the marketing guys will turn back to film.
     
  11. Since the world may end in 2012, the voices in my head say there is plenty of film!
     
  12. Don't worry - shoot - be happy. Let tomorrow take care of itself.
     
  13. Shoot film enjoy for the day it goes away you will have notice just like with Kodachrome... and I was not trying to be rude... sorry.
     
  14. my question is of actuality, I too have seen one hour labs close in my erea, they still offer the 24h service but send it to a broker.
    in fact 4 different comerce in mt town send the c41 to the same broker, yet they charge different prices?
    I see the cheeper service raissing there prices fast, thats why I wondered if this trend was going to burn film photography.
    call me cheep but I got the manual focus bug not only because of the exelent gear but also because its cheep to buy, but if processing get overprice then film gear will loos its apeal for me. many pepoles will feel the same way too.
    cheers
     
  15. I dont feel anyone was rude!
    on the contrary I am the one whos rude as my english is terrible lol
    thanks for your understanding
    I love this forum for the opinions every body shares
    rgds
     
  16. Thanks Steeve.
     
  17. Learn how to process B&W film at home. I don't need no stinkin' lab to help me out. :) Actually it's not that hard and doing so really makes one feel like they are part of the process.
     
  18. The problem there .. and I do process my own B&W is that in some places getting C-41 or E6 chemicals can be a problem. I send my E6 out through Wal-Mart tor use Fuji mailers and the C-41 here I still have a few choices localy but the problem is I had to get to know the people at the labs and their turn over is a mess but the Manager has been there for a few years at the local Walgreens so he has instructed his people to just do what Larry ask and to be careful. It should ot be that way but in a world where the lowest price an profit is put ahead of anything the problems are there.
     
  19. I hear you Michael but I love colors! big time!!!
    otherwise id do it at home like you. I traveled most jungles in this world and colors make it all happen for me.
    rgds
     
  20. a lizard from java
    colors!
    00WQgc-242975584.jpg
     
  21. Steeve that is wonderful. Yes I know Digital can do that but knowing you use film makes it all the better.
     
  22. A couple of years ago my local camera store would not touch used film cameras except maybe the odd mint boxed example now they seem to have quite a few used film bodies again. They seem to sell as the stock does change. A bit of topic but Marshal, Vox, Fender and a few other companies are all making practise 5 watt tubes amps again.
     
  23. Hey Dan,
    I was just in my local Mal*wart and the whole store's being renovated. I figured film processing was history, but they just moved it to a different area.
    So at least one SoCal store will still have it! And I'm sure they'll still drag one end of the developed rolls on the floor.
     
  24. Enjoy this slowly disappearing film phenomenon while you can, realizing that "Denial isn't a river in Egypt."
     
  25. Actually, most film users are more aware of the facts but just choose to use it over digital.
     
  26. you're funny, Howard... but digital is like shaving your legs... it may be smooth, but its completely unnatural (women need not apply here - you can keep shaving, thanks). but, really, if you dont like film and have some sort of retarded animosity for it, why bother looking, let alone posting, in the film section of the website?
     
  27. Film will be dying for a thousand years.
     
  28. I can't help but wonder if these "film is dead" guys - either asking the question about film's demise or posting confidently how it's certainly going away - are paid by digital camera companies to do just that. Those who use only film, and there are a LOT of them in the mom and pop category (neither of my kids grandparents own or use a digicam, for example) are probably the greatest potential source of new digital camera sales.
     
  29. Many budget options are disappearing. I suspect that his is becoming a specialized service and that in many markets it will be primarily a mail order business.
     
  30. Hollywood is moving more and more to digital workflow and digital capture has gotten to the point being better than film - see search on Red One for example. Digital workflow and distribution is faster, cheaper, and better. And with digital 3D and other newer filmmaking techniques it's making less and less sense to use film. There's a wonderful essay on Filmmaker magazine (website) somewhere about that. So, don't expect Hollywood to save to film. Digital is gaining many converts.
    In my area, the folks that sell film say that most of their sales are disposable film cameras. They keep a few token roles of 35mm around that sell very slowly. They end selling them on clearance when they expire, so the carry less and less.
    The market will continue to shrink and it'll just be the processors that are too stubborn to close up that will still be around to process film. One of my local drugstores pulled their last minilab out - they just kept their Frontier machine for the old people (those over 40) who like printouts. The younger folks want digital images on their webpages (Facebook) - film just complicates things and adds too much cost.
    Personally, aside from consumables, I have stopped investing in any film equipment.
    Sure, film will probably be around for some time, but nothing close to the selection or convenience with processing - it'll be just a artsy type of endeavor that a handful of specialty stores handle and as a result it will be even more expensive than now. And for many things you will have to roll your own - look at the glass plate guys that are still hanging around.
    It'll take a while longer (10+/- years?) because of the inventory of film cameras still around and the folks using them, but the demand trend in undeniably downward and will continue for a while until it levels off. When it levels off, it will be well below the market share where it will be profitable for Kodak and Fuji to stay in the business. I will be quite surprised if Kodak is still in the film biz five years from now.
    In the meantime, digital is progressing by leaps and bounds and becoming cheaper as a result. In said drugstore mentioned above, they had a 3 MP point and shoot for $39. That was the resolution of a professional digital camera back in 1998. The next generation of sensor technology will out resolve medium format and maybe start nipping the heals of 4x5.
    Young people going to film? They play with it for a while, spend a bit of money, and go back to digital - it's by no means a permanent trend.
     
  31. I'm looking to learn how to process and print 35mm films b/c of the cost of the processing the films. Walmart/Walgreen charge us $4-5/roll for developing, + $3-4/roll = $7-8/roll of film to shoot. At the cost of $40-50 for chemicals, if I shoot 5-6 rolls, I break even. However, as Dave B pointed out, my interest in 35mm films is mainly curiosity. If the cost of chemicals and films continue to rise, it is hard to justify exploring films.
     
  32. I'm with Les, "use it or lose it". I'm always surprised at all the crystal ballers that come out of the community college when talking about film's demise. What's the point in worrying about it, if you are worried just buy more film. APX-100 in 4x5/120 anyone? lol
     
  33. I will be quite surprised if Kodak is still in the film biz five years from now​
    You see this statement a couple times a year.
     
  34. There's no sign they'll stop processing 35mm at all and if you ask them just to process the roll without printing or CD then it only costs about $1.50-2.50 per roll in drugstores, walmart etc. Scan the negatives/positives at home and print or upload just the ones you like. If you plan to do everything fully analog from loading the "sensor" to processing the prints then it will probably get harder with time, in my case I don't mind mixing up technologies and the best part of my enjoyment is operating the lenses and bodies and seeing the results after scanning them.
    If it's any indication of sustained 35mm enthousiasm, the April photos thread in the Canon FD forum is now up to a whopping 69 responses. Mine were far from the best ones but I'm proud to have contributed a few shots :)
    00WQqA-243057584.jpg
     
  35. Tuan,
    CVS processes 35mm C41 for about $2 and Costco about $1.50. BTW, CVS might have an issue processing your C41 if it has "Professional" on it like in Ektar. It turns out when they see that word, they think it's not C41 so just point out the "C41" on the film if this happens.
     
  36. You see this statement a couple times a year.
    I believe this message was sent only once...
    "Captain, there's an iceberg ahead" (HMS Titanic)
     
  37. I have a question that I'd like to ask Steeve Blain (and anyone else who would ask the same question):
    Suppose that , for some reason, all films will be banned next month, no one (in this whole world) can possess/store/process films anymore and we can only keep our exposed and processed films for later printing or scanning. What would you do now?
    1. Whining and crying all day?
    2. Throwing away all your film gears and rushing to stores to buy some digital cameras?
    3. Try to shoot film as much as you can in this month?
     
  38. 1. and 3.
     
  39. Shoot what I can then quit forever. Then start a new hobby. Collecting guns.
     
  40. I will be quite surprised if Kodak is still in the film biz five years from now.​
    They said those very same things about vinyl records. Film is just going to get very expensive.
     
  41. "It'll take a while longer (10+/- years?) because of the inventory of film cameras still around and the folks using them, but the demand trend in undeniably downward and will continue for a while until it levels off. When it levels off, it will be well below the market share where it will be profitable for Kodak and Fuji to stay in the business. I will be quite surprised if Kodak is still in the film biz five years from now."
    Kodak still makes a nice profit on film because the facilities are fully depreciated and the R&D investment is minimal. Yes, they will prune their offerings because the market is contracting. But exit the business? Not likely because they still make substantial profit from film.
    From the 2009 Kodak 10K:
    Film Group 2009 sales were $2.26 billion with a profit of $159 million. The Consumer Digital Imaging Group, on the other hand, posted a profit of $35 million on sales of $2.62 billion. So the suggestion that Kodak will leave the film business in 5 years is based on ignorance, and not on fact.
    Additional info from the 10k:
    "In the first quarter of 2008, the Company performed an updated analysis of expected industry-wide declines in the traditional film and paper businesses and its useful lives on related assets. Based on additional experience in the secular decline in these product groups, the Company assessed that overall film demand had declined but at a slower rate than anticipated in 2005, notably in the motion picture films category, which accounts for a substantial portion of the manufacturing asset utilization in the film business.
     
  42. Freestyle will help keep it alive.
     
  43. Here's a link to the Kodak's 2009 10k filing:
    http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/financials/drawFiling.asp?docKey=136-000003123510000038-28BPKUCI63CS29NVB3ABMI652U&docFormat=TXT&formType=10-K
     
  44. I'm always amazed at how many people who still support film then go and scan it on a $200 flatbed....
    With that said, I miss shooting Velvia and not having to spend anytime processing it...when you got it right 'in camera' it looked magical...straight out of the box.
    But then I look at some of the great images I have shot with digital, and how much I have learned shooting digital....I'll never go back.
     
  45. john if film was to stop!
    I would not invest my hard urned money on the nikon F6 im about to buy!
    there are some pretty interesting digital alternatives, but id miss the feeling of old manual cameras.
    Thats what it come up to, working with a well crafted no nonsens piece of art.
    modern dslr do a fine job at taking photographs, but they ar a higher product of cunsumtion, they are desingned in this regard.
    my old nikons have 3 decads of service on them and still will outlast me, they run years on a set of $1 button pills.
    I aske the question to have a better understanding via everybodys opinions.
    this is not whining its a simple exchange.
    rgds
     
  46. I live in a smaller community of 70,000 people.
    And our last camera store that did any proccessing just closed. They did an excellent job on custom work. So now I am going to have to send my film out.
    I started using digital two years ago, and may be it is time for me to purchase a quality printer and do my own printing.
    It was nice to leave film or a cd off locally and get what I wanted since the person doeing the printing knew what I wanted.
    I don't think film is going away for many years yet, but most of us will have to send it out of town to be proccesd and printed. Certainly not as convienent.
     
  47. rdm

    rdm

    I love film and use it all the time. In-fact i find myself lately using a lot of 70mm film too.
    I buy boxes of it so i can re-spool for my 116 and 616 cameras, i also slit it in half to spool 828 film and to reload in my 126 cartridges and use in my Instamatic 500. I just wish there were more emulsions to choose from. I especially wish i could find some 70mm or wider bulk rolls of transparency film so i can shoot some really big negatives. I always wished i could mount something a little larger Thain a 6cmX9cm slide in a picture frame that was back lit.
     
  48. 4. stop reading posts at photo.net
     
  49. I think it largely depends upon whether you ask the question in the "film and processing" forum or the digital forum.
     
  50. Easy answer. NO!
     
  51. I was at Hunt's Camera in Melrose, MA last week. They still have a huge selection of film to choose from, even the hard-to-find stuff, so I asked the person at the counter how film is selling. I've noticed over the time I've been going (approx. 6 months) that there seems to be a a brisk stock turn over, so it must be selling. Her answer, "Good, it's increased. A lot of people are using film, and a lot of students". That put a smile on my face. It was good to hear.
     
  52. The last Super 8 movie camera rolled off the line about c1984, or around 26 years ago. B&H and others still sell film for these, and many labs still offer processing. So if 35mm cameras became extinct tomorrow, the film and processing should be around until 2036 according to the above example.
     
  53. Kodak still makes a nice profit on film because the facilities are fully depreciated
    Why is it that people think depreciation is money lost? When facilities are fully depreciated you no longer can deduct their cost from your gross receipts. In other words, your manufacturing cost goes up.
    I was in Rose Records (Chicago) one Saturday afternoon about 10 years ago, browsing through their vinyl stacks. Sometime after closing, their entire inventory was packed up and replaced with CDs by the time the store reopened on Monday. I must have been sleeping when the same thing happed to vacuum tubes about 25 years ago. Paradigm changes tend to happen very quickly. You can still get vinyl records and vacuum tubes (Chinese and Russian), but you have to look around a bit (some people are addicted to "snap, crackle and pop").
     
  54. As I am to texture and grain.
     
  55. I have a question that I'd like to ask Steeve Blain (and anyone else who would ask the same question):
    Suppose that , for some reason, all films will be banned next month, no one (in this whole world) can possess/store/process films anymore and we can only keep our exposed and processed films for later printing or scanning. What would you do now?
    1. Whining and crying all day?
    2. Throwing away all your film gears and rushing to stores to buy some digital cameras?
    3. Try to shoot film as much as you can in this month?​
    I agree with Larry... 1 &3... and start a new hobby :)... maybe more 1 than 3...
     
  56. I have a question that I'd like to ask Steeve Blain (and anyone else who would ask the same question):
    Suppose that , for some reason, all films will be banned next month, no one (in this whole world) can possess/store/process films anymore and we can only keep our exposed and processed films for later printing or scanning. What would you do now?
    1. Whining and crying all day?
    2. Throwing away all your film gears and rushing to stores to buy some digital cameras?
    3. Try to shoot film as much as you can in this month?​
    I agree with Larry... 1 &3... and start a new hobby :)... maybe more 1 than 3...
     
  57. I have a question that I'd like to ask Steeve Blain (and anyone else who would ask the same question):
    Suppose that , for some reason, all films will be banned next month, no one (in this whole world) can possess/store/process films anymore and we can only keep our exposed and processed films for later printing or scanning. What would you do now?
    1. Whining and crying all day?
    2. Throwing away all your film gears and rushing to stores to buy some digital cameras?
    3. Try to shoot film as much as you can in this month?​
    I agree with Larry... 1 &3... and start a new hobby :)... maybe more 1 than 3... It would just be awesome if someone would come up with a digital back for my recently-ordered (and still waiting to be delivered) Leica R4S, and an updated (cheaper :D) digital back for the R8... lol... it doesn't hurt to dream... *sigh*...
    BTW, my local Target processes a roll of C41 for 90 cents. They scan it as well - but I end up re-scanning it at home... Wal-Mart only sends out the film... :( not convenient.
     
  58. oh goodness, forgive me for the multiple posts!!
     
  59. Les Sarile, thanks. There's a CVS in town, so I'll stop by to see what their price is.
    I guess it does suck living in a small town.
     
  60. No it does not suck. Just like everything else it just takes a little longer in a small town and that is not always bad.
     
  61. Suppose that , for some reason, all films will be banned next month, no one (in this whole world) can possess/store/process films anymore and we can only keep our exposed and processed films for later printing or scanning. What would you do now?
    1. Whining and crying all day?
    2. Throwing away all your film gears and rushing to stores to buy some digital cameras?
    3. Try to shoot film as much as you can in this month?​
    I'd choose:
    4. Move to a different planet! (is there a planet Fujinus or Kodakiter?)
    By the way, it's easy to forget the rest of the world. Last year I was in Brazil and Argentina and in the domestic tourism traps there was no problem finding lotsa dedicated photography stores developing and selling lotsa film. Digital hardware is way more expensive there so the market still seems a lot more dependent on analog.
     
  62. >>35mm will they stop processing it soon?<<
    I don't know about them, but I won't stop processing it... not until I can no longer get my hands on film and the necessary chemicals & papers. Try doing your own and you'll really be hooked!
     
  63. I would, in fact it sound interesting to process film at home, but I soon will live on a smallish (26 foot) sailboat for a few years out in Indoniesia. Thats why I chouse the simple and reliable film gear, I know that film is plentifull in Aisia. I was advised not to bring digital gear in the tropical jungles for extended periods.
    Thanks for everyones opinion
    Rgds
     
  64. I used to shoot only 35mm slide film and occasionally color negative. Five years back I bought digital camera, but never wanted to give up film photography. As a matter of fact 4 years ago one of friends convinced me to start medium format photography. I bought two Pentax 67II bodies and few lenses and now I just love it. The dynamic range of film is just outstanding. With a good scanner I can make a high resolution large size prints. Unfortunately, many color laboratories locally are folding up their business. I use a color lab 'AgX Imaging' located in Sault Sainte Marie, MI (http://www.agximaging.com/) that does outstanding processing at extremely reasonable price. I strongly feel that film will be around for a while and hoping that big manufacturers like Kodak and Fuji will still make film for us.
     
  65. A friend of mine read this thread and saw a buisiness oportunaty, a few phone calls later he located minilab equipment on 0ction sale, he thinks that offering on line quality scanns and mail servic prints is a viable investment inmy erea.
    it dont matter how many times this subject has been discused, the fact that many pepoles showed interest is testimony the subject is actual.
    thers alot of information on this thread, some will see positive interest in film, wich is all good.
    many thanks
    Rgds
     
  66. Steeve the only problem your friend may have is keeping it in chemistry.
     
  67. I'm with Larry -- no film? give photography up, find a new hobby. Collect guns and/or knives. Model ships in bottles anyone? (Don't laugh, I've seen some fantastic examples which I intend to photgraph someday with film.) Perhaps one could take up sketching. Didn't HCB do that?
     
  68. hmm. records, tube amps (for guitar), film, and sailboats. if a new technology in any of those hobbies is introduced (sailing/racing may be the only one these days... 3Di sails anyone?) i'll jump on it... but in reality its really all quite dated... but then again, who cares? and im probably one of the youngest people posting in this thread...
     
  69. For those of us who still (albeit infrequently) develop our own b/w film we will be good to go for centuries.
    For those who use only mini-labs, the question comes down to how long Fuji will make and service their C-41 processing machines.
     
  70. Digital modeling of guitar amps. AXE FX is supposed rather good Dan.
     
  71. It's been a good long while since I last sloshed my own tanks... but I would think that film is going to be safe as long as there is a demand for it, and there will be labs processing as long as the demand continues. Chemistry can be made, as well as bought packaged.
    Although personally I would prefer to do the development myself. There's something kind of magical about sitting in the dark and opening that film cartridge and taking out the tiny little reel full of exposed film - a world of possibilities yet to be realized.
     
  72. I guess it does suck living in a small town.​
    No it doesn't. I like living in a small town. If you don't like it, move!
     
  73. About the same time they stop producing DSLRs because everyone is using a camera phone.
    No doubt it will become more and more of a niche market, though... and increasingly expensive to both buy and get processed.
     
  74. if a new technology in any of those hobbies is introduced (sailing/racing may be the only one these days... 3Di sails anyone?) i'll jump on it... but in reality its really all quite dated...​
    Sure, there's not as much R&D as there used to be in those fields (except sailing) but Technics is still updating the SL1200 (MK6 version 2 years ago) and Kodak introduces new film. TMax got an update recently, Ektar is pretty new and pretty excellent and if they keep letting movie film trickle down we'll get a version of the Vision 3 films which look pretty spectacular.
     
  75. I am seeing way too many Photo.net film users sending their films to CVS, Walmart, and Costco. I used to do that until I took some college courses on color film developing and learned the importance of fresh, controlled chemicals to the archival character of processed film. I pay $15 to have a 36 exposure roll of 35mm processed and expertly contact printed onto an 11x14 size sheet of Fuji Crsytal Archive paper at one of the country's best professional labs - A&I - in Hollywood, California. I have color stuff from them going back 10 years that is as clean as the day I picked it up. They have a clean and well controlled process. This is vital. On the other hand, film that I had processed at drug stores is hit or miss. Some looks fine, but most has accelerated aging.
     
  76. Andre, I've wondered that very thing. I've seen a number of threads about Kodak's Ektar film giving a pronounced blue cast. I don't usually see anything like what I've seen posted from my own dealings but I did use a 1 hour mini-lab once and did get a bit of blue tinge. Could have been coincidence though, I don't know.
    Personally I like the way black and white film looks. The grain, the tones. I can't seem to reproduce that with digital. Not yet anyways.
     
  77. I think film will just get more expensive. A few months ago i was debating on what i wanted to shoot next. I was thinking Kodak Plus-X and went price surfing. B&H had it for something like $42. Freestyle was $49($44.99 fall magazine). Now I go to order it (3 weeks ago) and it is $68.95 on B&H and $69.99 Freestyle on this date.
    Tri-X is still $49.95 at B&H and $53.99 on Freestyle. So why the jump in price? Anyone hear anything about Plus-X?? Is Tri-X going to jump next?? For those who might wonder, i need the 100 speed because the camera that i want to use it in is an Argus A3 with a top speed of 150 so the 400 really would not work very well since i usually shoot outside. Anyone with a suggestion for film for this?? I don't really care for Kodaks Tmax films.
    Thanks
     
  78. Order the Aristia Premium 100 from Freestyle as it is the same as Plus-X.
    http://www.freestylephoto.biz/192110-Arista-Premium-BandW-100-ISO-35mm-x-100-ft.-roll?cat_id=402
    $29.99 per 100'
     
  79. I think the single biggest reason we still have film shooters is because of the wider dynamic range it provides over digital. What I love about shooting film is that my whites, my highlights don't accelerate to blown as fast as you'll get with digital. I love the highlight details that are still resolved and visible with film. As to resolution, resolving details, digital kills 35mm film...my 21mp DSLR resolves so much more and a heck of a lot crisper nuances then anything I've shot with 35mm film. I do realize meduim and larger format film is still ahead of digital in this regard, however.
    Until digital provides the same or wider DR then 35mm film, I'll continue to shoot film 95% of the time.
     
  80. film will outlast digital *[citation needed]
     
  81. I only have film cameras so I have invested in the chemicals & equipment needed to process my own B&W and E-6!!! After you have processed E-6 a few times it isn't bad. You just need to be able to keep the temp @ 100*/F. It takes 30 minutes. Screw Walmart!
     
  82. I think of it this way, although I could be wrong. I imagine more people shoot film than use other art supplies like oil paints and drawing charcoal yet those thing are still available. My guess is it will be available for some time to come although probably only from one or two places in a medium sized city. Hopefully young people will rediscover film at some point. I enjoy the ease of digital but I also find it dull to shoot and deal with on a PC. I actually find the whole digital takeover of everything rather dull and lifeless but I'm in the minority on this. I was born too late I guess.
     
  83. I just started shouting film and love it​
    Shout it, Steeve, SHOUT IT!
    --Lannie
     
  84. To you guys that say you'll get out of photography when film dies for good.....I don't get you....Isn't it about the picture?!? The composition? Perhaps for you types, the Journey is Half the Reward....I thin Steven Jobs said that....the irony is he's a digital head...lol
     
  85. "Why is it that people think depreciation is money lost? When facilities are fully depreciated you no longer can deduct their cost from your gross receipts. In other words, your manufacturing cost goes up."
    I never said that, Edward, and I certainly know the difference. The tax shield disappears when an asset is fully depreciated. But that's not the point. The point is that the film manufacturing line is a specialized asset - you can't sell it to produce something else. So the best option is to continue to run it because the economics are better than scrapping it.
    I'm fluent in sunk costs, too.
     
  86. To you guys that say you'll get out of photography when film dies for good.....I don't get you....Isn't it about the picture?!? The composition? Perhaps for you types, the Journey is Half the Reward....I thin Steven Jobs said that....the irony is he's a digital head...lol​
    I can't speak for others of "us types" (?) but for me it's not just that the journey is half the reward. Part of the fun is that in photography there's almost inevitably many ways and many types of kit that can produce similarly exciting photographs.
    Using various brands and models of 35mm equipment is part of the fun & challenge, lets me find out for myself how significant (and trivial) differences can be in functions, ergonomics, layout and feel - and also helps keep me from falling into the trap of assuming there really is only one "best" technology/body/lens/brand that will supposedly cure all my photo ills if I only fork over enough $$, rather than accepting that this photographer is invariably much more limited than his tools.
    By the way, Steve may well have said it but he's no oracle of unwavering originality, as far as this part of the web thinks it goes back to a chinese proverb - probably from waaay back before digital :)
     
  87. Because every time I open the daylight tank after I dump the fixer out it is still magic to me. that is why.
     
  88. There's a major difference. With your digital cameras, the camera device itself is the medium. You buy it, with hundreds if not a few thousand dollars, and that's what you have. Your satisfaction with the purchase only lasts about 3 months at the most. It's really just a computer which is roughly shaped like a 35 mm camera. With a real 35mm camera, I have a box with a lens attached to it. It's just a holder for the film - and the film is the real medium. Every time I decide to use it, I have the fun of using whatever film I want to use, for whatever effect. The end result may be the same if you just consider it as ending up with an image, but for me, it's just as much about the way of getting there as it is about the image. There are billions of images, millions of new ones every day, all basically looking much like the others that came before.
    As you get older, you realize that what really matters in life is the journey, not the destination. There's no lasting pleasure or memories in a destination arrived at too easily. It's the same with digital imaging. Even though I prefer film, I can whip up some pretty nice digital images too, but, so what, there's little satisfaction with that. It's too easy. This is why I very much doubt I would remain with photography if for some reason, film was totally dead.
     
  89. Bravo Pierre !!! Agree 100%
     
  90. yes bravo pierre you expressed so eloquently what many of us feels.
    some of you guys ar procesing color negatives at home, would you be kind enough to post one of your favorit scan?
    I am curious to see
    rgds
     
  91. Mamiya RB67 127 mm f 3.8 Sekor C lens - Rollei Retro 100 en Rodinal
    00WRm9-243605584.jpg
     
  92. You buy it, with hundreds if not a few thousand dollars, and that's what you have. Your satisfaction with the purchase only lasts about 3 months at the most.

    Great observation. Is this based on market research, or are you clairvoyant?
     
  93. No Pierre, a DSLR is not the medium. It is like a film camera, in that it captures the light but instead of recording it on film, it records it on a flash card. Many shooters don't realize this, but a digital camera's sensor is an analog device. Both film and digital cameras capture the light in analog, not digital.
    Pierre, you wrote that as we get older and older, the journey matters more then the destination. Granted, but what you also forgot was that as we age, we get more subjective, we idealize, we romanticize, and lose sight of the prime-directive:
    The Print!
     
  94. One of my local drugstores pulled their last minilab out - they just kept their Frontier machine for the old people (those over 40) who like printouts. The younger folks want digital images on their webpages (Facebook) - film just complicates things and adds too much cost.​
    Interesting...I live in Charlotte, NC and EVERY CVS, Rite-Aid, Walgreens, etc. still have their C-41 processors. They also PRINT volumes, and not just to those ancient "over 40" types.
     
  95. Suart Moxham:
    Digital modeling of guitar amps. AXE FX is supposed rather good Dan.​
    and why would i want to simulate what a tube amp sounds like, when i could just go and buy one? wait, that sounds like my rationale for film too... i dont want to hear what i think an engineer thinks a tube amp sounds like, i want to hear what a tube amp sounds...



    Andrew Lynn
    Sure, there's not as much R&D as there used to be in those fields (except sailing) but Technics is still updating the SL1200 (MK6 version 2 years ago) and Kodak introduces new film. TMax got an update recently, Ektar is pretty new and pretty excellent and if they keep letting movie film trickle down we'll get a version of the Vision 3 films which look pretty spectacular.​
    Agreed, but a link to Kodak's 10k report showed that their R&D is about half, in 2009, of what it was in 2007. i dont actually follow record players, i simply just like them. my brother currently has ours from when we moved a few years ago, will hopefully be getting that back next week... It sure would be nice if someone would exactly replicate the RCA tubes though, there are a few people making tubes, and a few more rebranding them, but its generally accepted that they are not on the same level as RCA at all, both in sound and longevity... It'd be nice if Kodak keeps introducing new films, but i have a hard time justifying buying their films anyway... for all i know by the time i get to learn its character they'll cut it. again.
     
  96. Digital modeling of guitar amps. AXE FX is supposed rather good Dan.
    and why would i want to simulate what a tube amp sounds like, when i could just go and buy one?​
    I am a guitarist who also builds valve (tube) audio equipment. Logically I should use a valve amplifier of my own construction but I don't. I have a Line 6 mdelling amplifier... and it's very good!
     
  97. A good use for digital modeling is playing at home. My old 5 watt tube amp was much too loud to crank up and play at home. With other people in the house it was not possible to get the best from the amp. Another use would be recording. The guitar can be recored dry and then the guiarist and sound engineer can find a good tone that sits well in the mix. Reamping is another option of course. I like tube amps and digital modeling as much as I like film and digtal photography but neither options are perfect and both can be used to produce good results.
     
  98. This is all nice to hear and is as clear as mud. That said I will make it simple. I prefer film. I think I don't have to Justify what I like I just like it.
     
  99. Thats the best reason Larry use it because you like it.
     
  100. There are clear signs that film is becomming a specialty product. I am familiar with Walmarts and will use them as an example. Walmart has not renewed the contract with Fuji for the wet lab (film processing) machines. They are all being removed in every store. The few stores that still have them are reporting they do less than 20 rolls per day. Thirty is considered break-even. There will still be places around most medium and large cities that will do one hour processing, but they will become fewer and the machinery is getting older and older. Ten years ago Walmart had about 24 ft. of film (six 4 foot sections) in most high volume supercenters. They even carried three or four skus of slide film, three choices of b&w, and so on. Today they only carry about half a 4 ft. section of film, and now only carry Fuji print film (200, 400, 800). I would guess that Walmart sales were about a quarter of Kodak's consumer film sales. Walmart has continued the Fuji TruColor processing service (out source), but the pickup and delivery schedule is no longer daily. And, the distances the film is shipped to have dramatically increased as TruColor labs have closed. (I used to work at a TruColor volume lab.)
    Film will still be around but I see choices continuing to narrow. I also don't see all film processing ended, but do worry that no new machinery will ever be built in our lifetime. I still shoot some 4x5, and have just bought a Kodak Brownie Hawkeye to play with. It shoots 120. Mostly I shoot digital though.
    Kent in SD
     
  101. There is something nice though when shooting with a old manual metal bodied SLR like an FM2. I always enjoy the viewfinder of my FM2 compared to my D1h and my D80. I have been using my FM2 quite alot lately and was quite supprised today when I used my DSLRs straight after using the FM2 just how much I really like using the FM2.
     
  102. 35mm will be around for a very long time. Some labs charge more then Wallmart but that is expected. Don't worry about it and just go shoot and have fun. Fuji Superia is a very popular low cost film.
     
  103. Sometimes I worry more about the Cameras than the film. Nikon only lists the simple FM10 or the very high end F6 film cameras. There are no more midrange cameras like the N80 that was a great camera. I have an F5, N80 and N75 so I am good for a while.
     
  104. I shoot film and digital. I enjoy both formats but I must say if film becomes to difficult then I will just shoot digital. I have no problem with that at all. From a consumer standpoint that means people will not sell me much as I do not upgrade or have a need for any gear. Most of the money I spend in photography is on film and processing.
     
  105. rdm

    rdm

    A new Rite-Aid Pharmacy just opened up in my town and they are developing my negatives and scanning them to a CD for $2.28 a roll, regardless of exposures. No prints of course.
     
  106. Marvin
    You have a point there but from what I can see from the cassettes I get from the 1 hour labs. I use them to bulk roll, is that most of their processing is from one use cameras.
    There are plenty of older cameras out there and at a fraction of the cost they were when they were new. I just today shot with a Minolta SRT 100 and a Nikon N90. Those 2 cameras were pretty far apart in years yet they both work fine.
    Too bad no one is making new film cameras and extending the line but there are many cameras and lenses out there that will keep working as long as they get exercise for a real long time.
     
  107. Larry
    I also have 2 X700 Minolta cameras and Maxxum 9000 that I use also. I just picked up a set of extension tubes on ebay for my X700 for 3.99 plus shipping. You are right there are bargans out there on film cameras. I also use the Bronica ETRSi medium format cameras but they like the Minolta are not being made any more.
     
  108. Yes so we will just have to use what all the other people don't want to use. :)
     
  109. The film will continue to be processed but there are two stages to it. First the film processing might increase in prices as many processors are going to the bin. However Printing Prices continue to face downward pressure and digital photos require printing. Once the Film is processed it can be easily digitised and printed. The total of both the processes might still remain reasonable.
     
  110. I personally feel that film is going to start coming back. The fact is that you just can't get the same depth out of a digital camera. Also, large format photographers will find film LF equipment and cameras to be vastly cheaper than digital ones, new digital LF cameras were going for upwards of 30 grand last time i checked. you can get a decent film 4x5 for probably 100 bucks on ebay now a days. (i got my cambo LF for free, with 2 bellows, 2 lenses (schneider and graphlex optar), 2 lens boards, and 7 double sided film holders. But, in fine art photograpy, film will always be there, and im hoping, and thinking, that it will become a sort of prestige thing. I mean, sally mann still uses glass plates, so i think film will stick for a while, as long as there is a market for it.
    just my thoughts, but i probably don't know what im talking about.
     
  111. Also I don't think you can get this from digital. Rollei Retro 80s film is what I remember film like in my head.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  112. I was expecting some more views but the one so far is very interesting. I do agree that in the professional photography market it will remain but what about consumer photography.
    http://www.ipo.gov.uk/patent/p-journal/p-pdj/2006-6109.pdf
     
  113. Sorry about the previous link it does not provide much information. This link shows new technology in the consumer photography domain.
    http://ns1.ipo.gov.uk/p-find-publication-getPDF.pdf?PatentNo=GB2442037&DocType=A&JournalNumber=6201
     
  114. The prices for film processing have gone up again.
     
  115. Just jumping in, Ritz Camera is Reopening there shops, according to there web site they will still be processing film,and with the one hour pickup time.
    Glenn
     
  116. Didn't they announce a couple weeks ago that they were closing the remaining stores and liquidating?
     
  117. All things change... Film is back.
     
  118. Inasmuch as film costs relatively little to both purchase and develop in the US, it's simply not so here in New Zealand wherein, for various reasons, pretty much everything is overpriced. I live in the largest city in the country and even here, finding the handful of places that process film for anything approaching a reasonable price is near on impossible.
    Add this to the fact that there's just not much film variety at all, unless you use nothing but Superia 400; and what little variety there is costs. Ilford HP5? Assuming you can find it (I know of only one place that sells the stuff), it's $25 a roll.
    I could, of course, buy film from the US, where it costs a pittance in comparison, but shockingly high shipping costs make it unsustainable in the long run. Digital, here at least, really is the more sensible option.
     

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