Issues with D76

<p>Hello,<br />I'm pretty new to developing black and white film so please bear with me, I really appreciate any help here. I've seen a few other posts that are similar to this but I still don't feel like I have gotten the answers I am looking for. Recently, I have been noticing a lot of grain and white spots all over the shadows of my film. I've attached three examples below which were shot on TMAX 400 120 film with my Pentacon Six Medium Format Camera. <br>

<br />My sink will only produce water at 80°F (26.6°C) which is the temperature I have been processing my film at. I have mixed all of the chemicals below into a 1 GAL Delta Datatainer based on the directions each chemical came with. I mixed all of the chemicals on 8/5/16 and I've developed 5 rolls of film so far. <br>

Here is a rundown of my chemicals used and the process from start to finish. Film is being processed in a Patterson tank.<br /><br /><strong>Chemicals Used</strong></p>

<ul>

<li>D76 Developer (stock solution) </li>

<li>Kodak Rapid Fixer with Hardener</li>

<li>Heico Perma Wash</li>

<li>Ilford Ilfotol</li>

</ul>

<p><strong>Process <br /></strong></p>

<ol>

<li>Soak Film in water for 1 MINUTE and discard</li>

<li>Pour Developer up to top line and agitate for 1 MIN</li>

<li>Put lid on and agitate for 10 SEC every 1 MIN and tap tank for 6:00 total.</li>

<li>Pour Developer back into container</li>

<li>1 MIN wash in water and discard</li>

<li>Pour Fixer to top line</li>

<li>Put lid on and agitate for 10 SEC every 1 MIN and tap tank for a total of 8 MIN</li>

<li>1 MIN wash in water and then discard</li>

<li>Pour Perma Wash and agitate for 1 MIN and discard</li>

<li>Wash film for 1 MIN in water and the discard</li>

<li>Add a drop of Ilfotol and agitate for 2 MIN and discard</li>

</ol>

<p>That's my whole process and I just want to make sure if there is anything I am doing wrong. I'm guessing the suggestions will be doing a higher concentrated dilution but I am really terrible with chemistry so any help is much appreciated.<br>

Thanks!<br>

http://i.imgur.com/xCu5K6M.png<br>

http://i.imgur.com/B8QcIgU.png<br>

http://i.imgur.com/0DK9Oyu.png</p>

The issue might be not using distilled water. It can make

a huge difference.

<p>When using distilled water, would I need to get it down to 68°F or can it just be at room temperature? Also, when it comes to washing the film with water, would I just fill it to the top line and then agitate the film? I normally let the sink run for a full minute onto the film. Thanks. </p>

<p>Are you someplace with lots of minerals in the water. I can use tap water for processing chemistry in the Boston area, but in much of Ohio there's so much minerals in the water that you have to use distilled (or at least demineralized) water, especially for washing. Well, not for the entire wash, but for a last rinse. Also mix the wetting agent (Ilfotol) with distilled water.<br>

Also, mix the wetting agent fresh every time. It goes bad, grows pond scum.</p>

 

<p>Don't know where you are -- easiest thing is to operate at room temperature. Get a large bottle and filter funnel. Fill with filtered water and allow to sit till it is room temp. Kodak darkroom data guide says D 76 with TMax is good in a small tank from 70-85, times in minutes changing at 5 degree increments 7-4 minutes as temp increases. 80 shouldn't be an issue. The actual chemistry of the water is sometimes a problem, if so, distilled is a good idea when affordable. You mention washing in the sink -- sometimes hard to keep sinks clean. I used to use a cheap plastic dishpan pierced with small holes toward the bottom edges in the sink. Easy to clean & keep clean.</p>

<p>First, the temperature of your sink tap is irrelevant. I assume you have a refrigerator and either a stove top or a microwave oven. Kodak calls for mixing D-76 at between 122F and 131F.</p>

<p>If you have a microwave get one of these plastic pails:</p>

<p>http://www.homedepot.com/p/Argee-5-qt-Big-Mouth-Bucket-RG505/100066957</p>

<p>Most hardware stores carry something like them. Take the wire handle off; microwaves do not like metal. Measure the required volume of water and pour into the pail. Put the pail in the microwave and heat the water for about 3 minutes them measure the temperature of the water. If it is below 130 F continue to heat. If you are over 130 F put the pail aside until it cools to 130 F, then begin to mix.</p>

<p>If you do not have a microwave heat the water to 130 F in one of your <strong>metal</strong> cooking pots or pans on the stove top.</p>

<p>Now to prepare for processing. Put a gallon jug of water in the refrigerator the night before you process. This will give you cold water to mix your stock solution of D-76 with to produce a working solution of 68 F (20 C).</p>

<p>I suspect most of your problem is that you are developing at too high a temperature. Try processing at 68 F (20 C)</p>

<p>First I assume you are using a light tight tank. Put an empty reel in the tank and fill the tank with tap water until the reel is covered. Measure the amount of water with a graduate; round this number up to the next higher 10 ml (if you measure 452 ml round to 460 ml). This will be the amount of working solution you will need. It is also the amount of fixer you need. You only need to make this measurement once and record it (write it down). Dry the reel before you try to load it.</p>

<p>Next mix a working solution of 1 part D-76 stock and 1 part water. To do this take the amount of working solution it takes to cover the reel (see above) and divide by 2 If as above you measured the amount as 460 ml you would need 460 / 2 or 230 ml of stock D-76 and 230 ml of water at the correct temperature. If the volume required comes out with a fractional amount round up to the nearest 10 ml just use the same amount of water. </p>

<p>Measure the temperature of your stock solution of D-76. If it is greater than 68 F, the water you use must be cooler than the stock solution; if it is less than 68 F the water must be warmer than the stock solution. The question is by how much? This calculation will be approximate but close:</p>

<p>1) Subtract the temperature of the stock solution from 68. This is the required temperature difference of the water.</p>

<p>2) Add the difference to 68. This is the required temperature of the water.</p>

<p>3) Use the jug of cold water from the refrigerator and your tap water to mix a quantity of water required to make the working solution in a separate container. Make the mix water about a degree warmer than the temperature computed in step 2 above. It is always easier to let the working solution cool to the required temperature than to try to warm it.</p>

<p>Load your film in the tank and make it light tight. Mix your working solution. When it is the right temperature, pour it into the tank and a start your developing. Kodak suggests 12.5 minutes at 68 F for a 1 + 1 working solution. Skip the prewash. Agitate for 5 to 7 inversions in the first 5 seconds then 3 to 5 inversions ever 30 seconds (Also Kodak' recommendation) at the end of the development discard the working solution (pour the used developer down the drain).</p>

<p>Keep the lid on the tank and stop and then pour in fix to fill the tank. </p>

<p>At this point I usually wash for about 20 minutes then finish off with a two minute wash with Photoflo mixed with distilled water.</p>

 

<p>Normally distilled water isn't needed, though if your normal water isn't good enough you might use it for the developer. Normal hard water, with calcium and magnesium ions normally isn't a problem.</p>

<p>If your water contains small particles, such a rust (iron oxide) or other oxides, you should be able to filter those out. A coffee filter, or filter paper used in chemistry labs, would do that. </p>

<p>The Kodak table for T-Max 400 only goes to 75F, but I believe it will work at 80F. You do have to decrease the time, though.</p>

<p>http://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/prod/files/files/products/f4043_TMax_400.pdf</p>

<p>For D76 stock, it should be a lot less than 6:00. That might be about right for D76 1:1.</p>

<p>For D76, 1:1, you take equal amounts of stock and water, mix them, use it and discard. </p>

<p>Also, the times normally include the pour out time. When it says 6:00, it is from the start of pouring in the developer, to the start of pouring in the next step, usually a stop bath. Water works too, but its effect is slower. </p>

<p>It looks to me that you are way over developing. </p>

<p>For D76 stock at 80F, it looks to me like about 4:00 or 4:15. For times that short, you have to be really good with your pouring. You want nice and smooth pouring, so all film gets close to the same time. D76 1:1 is probably better.</p>

<p>If you could get down to 75F, within the range of the table, that would be better.</p>

<p>Sandy and John, I live in Charlotte, North Carolina and I'm not sure what kind of water we have. I appreciate the suggestions though. Should I be using kodak hypo clear at some point?<br>

Brooks, I really appreciate the time and thought put into your response. I think this might be a little too complex and would require me buying some new chemicals. I'm essentially just wanting to work with what I have already and figure out a way to get better results. </p>

 

<p>Hello everyone. Once again I put forth my Igloo cooler method. Simple and direct. Either an Igloo or other brand hardshelled cooler. 6 repurposed, 970 ml drink bottles. 2 repurposed 500 ml drink bottles (I use Mountain Dew, it's the only one out there I can stand). One 970 ml bottle holds DI/de-mineralized water. One holds your fixer re-supply source. 4 hold plain tap water for washing your film. The two smaller bottles hold your developer and the amount of fixer needed to fill your tank. I use a 450 ml Nikor tank/reel combo, so the Igloo has everything for processing a 135-36 or 120 roll.<br /> Procedure: Qualize all liquid temps by adding hot or cold water. Start with 1 liter and watch the temp change over 30 minutes. From this you can "guess" the next time. My target temp is 70 F, +/- 1 degree.<br /> Pre Soak: Pour the necessary amount of DI water into your loaded tank and agitate for 3 minutes. Pour out. Next, Put your developer into your loaded tank and process for your times. Pour your developer out and rinse twice with tap water. I do not use any form of stop solution. Next add your small, pre-measured, fixer to the can and process for the desired time. During this phase, I pour fixer from the 970 ml bottle into the smaller bottle.<br /> When the fixing is finished, pour the can's contents into the larger fixer bottle. Use the remaining water for the wash. I follow the Ilford method of 6 changes of water, each change being 5 minutes or more. The 7th change is the DI water. Use photo-flo if you like, I do not, preferring to spray the hanging negative roll with DI from a mister bottle.<br /> Simply re-fill all bottles with the proper liquid and put the Igloo away. The kit will have all liquids at the same temp for your next roll. Bill</p><div></div>

<p>Hi Glen,<br>

I appreciate your response, very helpful - just had a few questions.</p>

<ul>

<li>Should I just put my containers of D76, Fixer, and Permawash in the refrigerator until they get to 75°F or lower?</li>

<li>Would that be okay to have them in there to cool down? </li>

<li>If so, would I also need the water to be the same temperature or would it be fine at 80°F?</li>

<li>Are the rest of my processing times right for the fixer, permawash, and ilfotol?</li>

<li>Is the order that I have the permawash and ilfotol correct?</li>

</ul>

<p>Thanks a lot!</p>

<p>Perma Wash or Hypo Clear, but not both. I believe Perma Wash is supposed to be better.</p>

<p>But rapid fixer without hardener, and you don't need hardener with today's films, comes out fast enough that you don't need either of them. And it comes out a lot faster at 80F than at 68F. A five minute rinse at 80F with slowly running water should be fine, though I usually go to 10 minutes, at about 70F. </p>

<p>I use Ilford Rapid fixer, which doesn't come with a hardener. </p>

<p>The step you want to get the timing pretty closer for is the developer. For fixer and rinse, a little longer doesn't hurt. </p>

<p>More often, I have to warm the chemicals. In the winter, my basement darkroom is down to about 55F, and in the summer about 70F. I put them in a bowl of warm water. </p>

<p>Is it that warm in NC? Usually cold water come underground, so stays cool even when the air is warm.</p>

<p>Anyway, 80F is probably fine if you get the right time. You want no more than about 5F difference between step, especially you want to avoid a warm step to a cold one, as that emulsion contracts with bad effects.</p>

<p>I think the rest of the times are fine. TMax tends to need more fixing than some other films, so you are probably fine. For the rinse agent, I just dip for seconds, then hang the film and lightly wipe either side with my fingers also dipped in solution. Just the weight of the film clip on the end, while lightly pressing against the film, to get big drops off. </p>

<p>I am a little confused by your starting steps. You are keeping the film in the dark, right?</p>

<p>Usually you load the tank in a totally dark room, a closet if you don't have anything else, but most use a changing bag. Then put the lid on, and do the rest in in the light. </p>

<p>You say you fill the tank, then put the lid on. That sounds wrong.</p>

<p>Well, some have been known to fill the tank, turn off the lights, load the reel, put the reel in the tank (in the dark), put the lid on, then turn on the light. I never tried that, but it does work.</p>

<p>You should know how much solution it takes to fill the tank. I usually premeasure into cups the right amount for each step. Buy measuring cups in a thrift store. Then I know it will fill, but not overfill. </p>

<p>If you cool the developer and fixer down, you also need to cool the water you use to wash. The temperature shouldn't change by more than 1 or 2 degrees or you run the risk of reticulation. Today's films aren't easy to reticulate, but I've seen it happen. Using a water bath or one of the other methods already mentioned should get your chemicals down to 70 at least. Another problem with working at high temps is that the developing time becomes short enough that you're prone to irregular development. I have only well water here and it's got a ton of iron, so I use distilled for just about everything - my house is usually at about 68 anyway, so it's just right.</p>

<p>Thanks for the suggestions everyone. It sounds like I am going to need distilled water as I really don't know what kind of minerals are coming out of my sink.<br>

I think the main question I have now is, should I get rid of my D76 and mix a new batch of it? Do I also need to mix a new batch of Fixer? As mentioned before, I mixed all of the chemicals on 8/5/16 and I've developed 6 rolls of film so far. I just feel like a clean start with at least the D76 would be best. <br>

After reading the igloo cooler method from Bill, it sounds like doing one shot with the developer is the best method. Should I mix the D76 to stock solution? Thanks again. </p>

<blockquote>

<p>Brooks, I really appreciate the time and thought put into your response. I think this might be a little too complex and would require me buying some new chemicals. I'm essentially just wanting to work with what I have already and figure out a way to get better results.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>You are very welcome, Noah.</p>

<p>Other than PhotoFlo, I do not think I mentioned any new chemicals, unless you count water and distilled water. If your last wash is in Perma Was, that's fine. Just if you mix it please use distilled water. It is the last wash your film has and should be free of particles.</p>

<p>I do not think things will improve until you develop at a lower temperature and for longer times. D-76 is a great developer and very forgiving when used at 68 F and at 1 + 1 for a longer time. Short developing time are more prone to error; in other words a 10 second error when developing for 12 minutes is about a 20 second error when developing at 6 minutes, because developing time is not linear. </p>

<p>A great way to get grain is to develop at a high temperature and to over develop because the time is slightly off. If you decide to cool your developer in the refrigerator, be sure not to over cool, say lower than 65 F it, or you can cause the developer to precipitate out of solution. It is difficult to get it back in solution. </p>

<p>Do you need to mix new batches of D-76 and fixer? If you mixed them at the temperature recommended by Kodak and stirred until the powders were <strong>completely</strong> dissolved, probably not - unless you see particles in either solution.</p>

<p>Good luck. Developing black and white is a great hobby, but it requires precision.</p>

<p>If you want to know the mineral content of your water, you can contact your local municipality, as they are required to monitor a number of factors regarding your water. In my rural community, once each year they send out a water analysis to all residents. FWIW, if you have a working water softener, you probably have hard water (high mineral content) but it is reduced by the water softener.</p>

<p>I agree with all of the comments made. One thing I have to add is that looking at the images it is clear that you have particulate material in the solutions at some point in your process. The distilled water suggestion might be the best one..</p>

<p>I develop every other day with D76 (well, 1+3 and with FP4+), so here are my two cents:</p>

<ul>

<li>Disclaimer: I don`t know about your water quality; mine is right enough, so I rarely use distilled water in the darkroom.</li>

<li>My tap water temp is very close to yours. But if I let it run I can get a slightly lower temperature... so I have "summer developing times" settled at 24ºC. I use to need some cold water I have on the freezer to fill a water jacket at such temperature. In winter I try to reach 20ºC.</li>

<li>I use to put the chemicals into the freezer for a while to get them promptly closer to 24ºC. No problem.</li>

<li>IMHO, 26.6ºC is not that hot, I`d say things actually go wild with D76 over 30ºC, maybe.</li>

<li>Why to pre-soak your film? I find it simply useless.</li>

<li>Why to use hardener? Another useless step to my taste. It may be also a source of problems.</li>

<li>I have used developing times from less than five minutes with success on the Paterson tank.</li>

<li>Obviously, the mix should be completed. Don`t leave chemical grains unmixed on the solution. If the mixing temperature is low, you`ll simply need to stir for more time.</li>

<li>Check the negatives with a loupe; is there anything on that spots?</li>

<li>Check your fixer solution. Is it clean, or have silver particles? You may need to filter them.</li>

<li>One minute wash seem too short, even after using hypo.</li>

</ul>

<p>This isn't rocket science! I have recently been scanning negatives that I processed back in the late '50's and early '60's as a teen aged neophyte to darkroom work. A few have a slight sepia tone, there are evidences of mistakes, but generally they are pretty decent. The same for the few prints from years ago that I have kept. Basically be very conscious of cleanliness, follow directions and you should be fine. There are lots of variations, but simply, add measured quantity of developer at correct temperature to your tank smoothly and quickly in a single pour - (I'm assuming one of the many daylight types, with film loaded on the reels in the dark), tap to break bubbles free, inversion agitate as instructed for the required time. Pour out and replace with a measured quantity of Indicator stop bath for suggested time, pour out and add fixer, fix as instructions specify, then rinse. Regular fix or rapid fix, hypo eliminator or longer rinse all optional (to me) choices. When rinse is done, use photo flo solution, squeegee or sponge, hang dry(dust free area) or put in dryer if you have one. Then cut and sleeve dry negatives for later use, storage or scanning. Particulate matter can easily be filtered out by a variety of methods, or distilled water used. Alchemy, it is not! Just remember clean, clean, clean, and follow directions.</p>

<p>Another method of lowering warm temperatures if you're using stock D76 is get a large glass test tube and fill it with ice water. Use it to stir your developing solution until you get it down to 68 degrees or whatever temperature you want. During the summer months sometimes my fixer is warm even though my darkroom gets central AC so while developing my beaker with fixer is sitting in a water bath to cool it down. I have a large beaker (2000 mL) with wash water at a temperature between that of the fixer and tap water to allow the film to gradually transition to tap temperature for washing. Never had a problem with reticulation.</p>

<p>If the D-76 is fully dissolved, and your fixer isn't full of sulfur or silver bits, check your scanner glass. It may be dust/crap on your platen, or on the underside of it. As Jose said, check the negs with a loupe to see if there are any impurities on the actual negative. </p>

<p>Hi Everyone, <br>

Thanks so much for your willingness to help and give suggestions, very appreciated. <br>

Today I am going to my local photo store to pick up some more D76 developer and here is how I am going to change my process of developing TMAX 400:</p>

<ul>

<li>D76 will be used as a one shot and also mixed 1:1. </li>

<li>D76 will be at 68F along with Fixer and Perma Wash</li>

<li>Water throughout the whole process will be distilled</li>

</ul>

<p>As for the actual steps during development, this is how I am thinking it will now be based on Kodak's suggestions using TMAX 400 120 film at 68F along with everyones comments on here. </p>

<ol>

<li>Pour 500ML of Developer and agitate for 1 MIN</li>

<li>Put lid on and agitate for 10 SEC every 1 MIN and tap tank for 12:30 total.</li>

<li>Discard Developer</li>

<li>1 MIN wash in water and discard</li>

<li>Pour 500 ML of Fixer</li>

<li>Put lid on and agitate for 10 SEC every 1 MIN and tap tank for a total of 8 MIN</li>

<li>1 MIN wash in water and then discard</li>

<li>Pour Perma Wash and agitate for 1 MIN and discard</li>

<li>Wash film for 3 MIN in water and the discard</li>

<li>Add a drop of Ilfotol and agitate for 2 MIN and discard</li>

</ol>

 

<ul>

<li>Does this look like I should come out with good results?</li>

<li>Since I'm going to use distilled water now, instead of letting the water run into the tank for 3 min straight, can I just pour enough water to fill the tank and then agitate for 3 min?</li>

<li>Also, my fixer has hardener in it - is that fine or should I buy some new fixer without hardener? </li>

</ul>

<p>Thanks everyone!</p>

 

<p>I use ID-11 (essentially the same thing as D76) or DD-X and prefer Ilford films, but the principle is the same.</p>

<p>I urge you to use a stop bath after the developer, not a water rinse. An acid stop bath ends development promptly, this is why it is used - water is not very effective at this. I use Ilfostop, but a 20% solution of white vinegar will do the same job and is cheaper. If you use Ilfostop stop bath, it is yellow when in good condition but turns purple when exhausted. Ilfostop Pro doesn't change colour.</p>

<p>Temperature and time are only critical for the developer phase. Use a fridge to cool developer or a hot water bath to warm it if necessary.</p>

<p>You do not need a fixer with hardener for modern films.</p>

<p>I don't bother with wetting agents or post-fixer treatment on B&W film, in my experience it is a waste of time and money and if anything will leave more marks and smears on the film than not using it. There again, tapwater quality here in Edinburgh (Scotland) is very good.</p>

<p>Cleanliness is important. The defects on your scans look more like dust, although one is clearly a hair-type fibre and another is a scratch in the film. The inside of the camera, the developing equipment and wherever you hang the film to dry MUST be clean. Dust landing on a fully dried film isn't a problem since it can be blown off, but on wet film it will sink into the emulsion and you'll have to spot your scanned images to deal with it. Check your solutions before starting and don't use any with debris or sediment in them.</p>

<p>My procedure is as follows:<br>

<br />1. In a Paterson tank (1 roll of 120 or 2 of 35mm size), add 600-700ml of developer. Invert GENTLY for first 30s, then GENTLY 10s every minute until the developing time is up. Drain developer back to bottle (or discard if one-shot);<br>

2. Add 600-700ml stop bath, invert GENTLY for about 20s, return stop bath to bottle;<br>

3. Add 600-700ml fixer, invert as for developer for about 5 minutes or so (Ilford Rapid Fixer), return fixer to bottle;<br>

4. Run clean tapwater into tank at a fast trickle and leave it running for five minutes or so, alternatively if your water costs money use the "Ilford three stage wash" technique - fill, invert 10 times, drain, fill, invert 20 times, drain, fill, invert 30 times, drain;<br>

5. Remove film from reel, hang up, gently squeegee (optional, I do it but many don't), leave to dry for a few hours dependent on ambient temperature and humidity. File the negatives in acid-free sleeves for safekeeping.</p>

<p>Before scanning, make sure the scanner bed is very clean, and also ensure the film is free of dust. Tilting it under a light source will normally reveal dust. Blow it off gently with an air can or similar, making sure not to blow the dust onto the scanner. It's a good idea to wear clean lint-free cotton gloves when handling negatives - they might contribute a little dust now and then but they'll keep fingerprints off the film.</p>

<p>To verify the quality of your developer, dunk a piece of undeveloped film in the developer solution and if it turns completely black in appreciably less than the manufacturer's time for that film it's ok. For fixer, dunk a similar piece of undeveloped film in the fixer solution and see how long it takes to turn completely clear - the fixer time in the process above should be double this time.</p>

<blockquote>

<ul>

<li>Since I'm going to use distilled water now, instead of letting the water run into the tank for 3 min straight, can I just pour enough water to fill the tank and then agitate for 3 min?</li>

<li>Also, my fixer has hardener in it - is that fine or should I buy some new fixer without hardener?</li>

</ul>

</blockquote>

<p>There is a rinse process that uses much less water, but requires non-hardening fixer.</p>

<p>With the hardener, the flow of ions in/out of the emulsion is much slower.</p>

<p>I don't think you really need distilled water, you could buy ordinary bottled water from a store, which should be filtered enough. </p>

<p>Some stores I know sell big (maybe 5 gallon) bottles, and then will fill them for a price much less than distilled water. </p>

<p>There are also various filters that you could use, including some that fit into a water pitcher, others that go in the house water main. </p>

<p>Normally, city water is fine, but if you have your own well, or something similar, you could have problems. </p>

<p> </p>

<p>I recommend as last stage Photo-Flo (at recommended dilution) prepared with water known to be free from particles, be that filtered water, or distilled water, or whatever is safe in that respect. If your water is hard filtering is not an option (drying marks); use distilled water for last step. The tensio-active action of Photo-flo allows you NOT to wipe the film. First hold the film almost horizontal for a minute or so, before hanging it. That way, and with Photo-flo helping the free flow of water, any remaining particles (should'nt be if the water was clean) will collect at the edge. And should any particle remain:<br>

One residual speck of grit on film = one spot on image. Same speck + wiping = one scratch on image. Take your choice. </p>