Decisive Moment

[andrew_somerset1]

The decisive moment has to be the most abused idea in photography. Thomas already covered what it's supposed to be: succinctly, the moment at which all the elements of a scene come together <i>in a way that suggests meaning.</i> It's that last bit that separates the decisive moment from mere shutter timing.<p>

 

To me, Jake's is the most "decisive" of the photos posted so far, the bike and rider interacting with the arrow above them. The simplicity of the picture doesn't detract from that.<p>

 

Without wanting to come off as slamming anyone's photos on this thread, Jeff's comment on street photography reminds me of a comment made by John Brownlow on pinkheadedbug.com, something to the effect that most street photography is bad, and nothing more than slipshod documentary. I disagree with that comment; slipshod documentary is still better than bad street photography. At least it has a subject that might be interesting. Bad street photography is just bad street photography, and that's why it's bad -- snapshots made on the street that lack a significant subject or any real meaning. The whole idea of the decisive moment is what's supposed to bind their elements together and make them interesting.

[jake_tauber]

Not that anyone cares, but now that I look at this image I think it's more "focused" with this crop. Is it a "decisive moment"? I'm not sure. But, without the guy on the bike, it's just the end of an alleyway. In retrospect, I wish that I had shot it at a slower speed creating a bit more energy.<div></div>

[Uhooru]

As dispassionate as this is, I would probably term it a "decisive moment", maybe not in the history of the world, but for the conjunctio of elements in the photo :)<div></div>

[jake_tauber]

Note to intellectual property police. This is an old invitation to a Robert Frank show. Coincidently, I own a copy of this image. Sooo, I'm taking the liberty to use it as an example for this conversation.

 

If the shutter were pressed a 1/10th of a second sooner or later this moment...this decisive moment of ecstacy would have been missed.<div></div>

[mike dixon]

I think Thomas Sullivan said it well. There are a few shots in the thread that are "well-timed" in the sense of capturing a particular action, but they fall short of being decisive as per TS's explanation.

 

Jake's example just above raises another point: Most of the purported decisive moments shown in this thread could have been shot a few seconds earlier or later without seriously affecting the impact of the photo.

[Uhooru]

Again, maybe unintresting but within the terms of the elements of the photograph a moment when things come toghether.<div></div>

[Alex_Es]

A decisive moment can be determined when it is decided what is

decided upon in the photograph. I suppose when enough people have

decided what has been decided in the photograph then a universal

decision has been reached and a decisive moment can be proclaimed

thanks to the sheer number of decision makers.

 

I do not think this is all that hard once people put their minds to

it or a photographer has published and exhibited enough to get people

used to him or her.

 

Now what is bad photography as opposed to good photography is

problematic. I am for snapshots that have a particular take on life.

Perhaps the Joycean expression "epiphany" is the right word. I hate

the sort of well-wrought, techinically perfect but soul-less cliches

that one learns to crack out in commercial photo schools. This is

the stuff that looks great in the waiting areas of high class

restaurants (do you have a reservation, good, can you wait 20 minutes

anyway?) It's great in places like restaurants, tourist galleries,

dentist offices and corporate board rooms because it is so

inoffensive--so pretty and so mind numbing. There maybe someone

choking on a bone in the restaurant, screaming in dental surgery

because anesthetics are not covered by the patient's HMO, or jumping

out of the corporate board room window but the photograph stays calm,

cool as ice, soothing as valicum. Street photography is "bad"

because it is baaaad. It rocks your world, it knocks you off your

roller skates, it forces you to see the world in a new way.

 

I'll say it. I like Bill's and Julio's shots a lot. Bill's

especially because it is unexpected. I like the other shots too. I

like the shot with the cut off heads and the couple kissing. That

one you have to stare at a long time to appriciate. I do not mean

the obvious irony. I mean the compostion as a whole. There is this

family, there is this kissing couple, there are all these headless

people who seemed to have formed a wide circle around the kissers and

the family--and yet the kissers and the family seemed huddled in.

Something somewhere seems decided, hey?

 

I like the other shots to a greater or less extent. But let me pass

on them for now--not meaning to be disrespectful. All the

photographs make you the world in a new way.

 

Okay, here is my D.M. or epiphany. Or whatever it is.<div></div>

[bob_lazzarini]

D. P. said, <i>"Bob, I'd like to hear what you find decisive about your pic."</i><p>

If decisive is defined as... <i>"Having the power or quality of deciding a question..."</i><br>

Then the question in my photo's case is ... Can this man read? ... the answer being obvious, he can't or won't. :-)<br>

Basically I liked the composition, and wanted to share it.<br>

On the serious side.. I go along with Alex.<br>

Cheers!<div></div>

[bob_lazzarini]

Whoops,<br>

Once more with shrinkage.<p><div></div>

[bob_lazzarini]

</i>

Metropolitan Museum of Art, March 2004<br>

M3 with 50mm f2, Fuji 400<p>

[sliu]

<pre>

Ray . , mar 20, 2004; 03:51 p.m.

I'd bet that Erwitt is serious when it comes to editing his photos.

S. Liu, maybe you can explain your last photo, it doesn't really

read to me.

</pre>

I can only give a hint because you really have to read yourself. (I said you can write an essay about it ;-)

<p>

There is one person (me) sitting in a subway car on an elevated line. The train made a stop, you can see both side of the train in the car and both side of the train station outside the car.

<p>

The shot has a very narrow TIME and SPACE windows.

<p>

Questions, are the street buildings on the same side where I sat or opposite side? How many reflections did the camera caught?

<p>

To be honest, I don't know the answer either. That makes the shot interesting and decisive.

[grant_.]

heh...

<br>

<br>

 

 

<center>

<img src="http://s93887327.onlinehome.us/photos/peace.jpg">

</center>

[mike dixon]

According to the definition that some are promoting, <b>every

photo</b> would represent a decisive moment. The term

decisive moment is no longer meaningful or useful when it's

been watered down to the point of utter triviality.

[sliu]

i still see none =8-)

<p>

<p>

<a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007DN6"><img height=350

width=499 hspace=5 vspace=10 src="/bboard/image?bboard_upload_id=16342584"></a>

[Uhooru]

Well, if you're interested in how the "decisive moment" per HCB's definition as opposed to just good timing. I believe he talked about that moment when all the elements in the picture plane will form a certain type of "geometry" and that is the "decisive" moment that will exist in any situation. I'm partially paraphrasing. Good timing is part of that. A lot of these shots show good timing, not neccessarily some internal organization. Of course generally speaking some people don't believe that one moment is any more decisive than any other.

[sliu]

You guys are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO serious.

[Brad_]

No, just fussy...

[Allen Herbert]

Can't help thinking most of HCB''s so called decisive moments were set up. Hope i'm wrong, really want to believe. To capture one in the real world is so very, very, hard. This is mine, when i got lucky.<div></div>

[fate_faith_change_chains]

female elegance and feather forming a tiny decisive moment

[jack_lo_..._t_o]

Anyone ever been exposed to Lessing's lon Essay "The Laocoon?" About a classical sculpture-Laocoon(LAY-`OCK-OH-ON)and his sons being attacked by snakes; they pissed off a Greek God or something. Written around 1770: he discusses the Moment captured, the expressions on the faces, the snakes' positions etc. It was just at the point when they were (a)captured, couldn't escape, and (b) realised that. Any earlier or later it wouldn't have been the work of Genius (Bernini?)that it was.

 

But what if he'd picked the moment when one of the sons' heads was just getting munched on, the horror of the rest of the family to this moment--it'd be a different decisive moment.

 

If he picked the moment when the snakes were lolling around with their bellies full, in Laocoon's courtyard, well, I don't know if they had Black Humour in the 1770s.

 

Whaddaya think of these two moments? Do they each stand apart? Is one better than the other? Do they both stink?<div></div>

[jack_lo_..._t_o]

Seconds later.. y the way I think Bill's bocce pic would somehow be much better in colour. I like it, but I ain't gonna argue with Grant!<div></div>

[jack_lo_..._t_o]

Long essay, it should have read in my first entry.

[mattalofs]

So let's get one thing strait; HCB didn't coin the term "Decisive

Moment". Decisive Moment is what his American publisher

decided to call his first book instead of the actual translated

french, Images on the Run (Images a la Sauvette). Decisive

Moment is really just a marketing term. When HCB talked about

how he photographed, he talked far more about understanding

formal relationship of line, shape, light etc and how these

relationships would suddenly crystalize in front of his lens. So it

isn't just about timing. It's about, as some have already pointed

out, realizing when a particular set of elements form meaningful

relationships. A well timed shot is still just a well time snap shot

if it doesn't capture some transitory relationship between

meaningful elements. Having said that, and acknowledging that

nothing on this thread achieves that, there are still some awfully

good photographs here. But they aren't Decisive Moments. Sorry.

[grant_.]

i think im having deja vu

[fotografz]

I don't know if this qualifies by all the definitions abounding here (or lack of same).

 

I know how it happened, so it was decisive for me. I saw this guy cleaning a public

fountain. I stood there watching, liking the shapes he made as he moved around. And

when my eye saw this shape take form, I shot. Was it timing? Yes. Yet that isn't what was

important to me. It was waiting until the shape as defined by the light was most

compelling with-in the frame of my viewfinder. No big deal. Just a shot I liked.<div></div>