My Z8 took a quick bath in a lake. Nikon Service has said it's not economically repairable. But it (mostly) still works. Can I use it as a viable long-term backup body?

[david_feindel]

My camera and I tripped and fell into a freshwater lake (6-8" deep), and were partially submerged for 5-10 seconds. Immediately turned it off and pulled the battery and memory cards, and blotted the exterior dry. Had it in a bag with desiccant within 90 minutes. It stayed in the bag for 5 days, recharging the desiccant 3 times. It still didn't work, so I sent it off to Nikon Service, again in a bag with fresh desiccant. They returned the camera to me in 2 weeks un-repaired, saying it would cost as much to repair as to buy a new unit.

But the camera now (mostly) works. The left half of the upper LCD display doesn't work, and the shoe for the flash is missing a spring clip, exposing a very small PCB. Everything else seems to work as it should. I can easily live with these parts not working on a backup camera body. The question is whether the damage will grow over time, or pretty much stay limited to what it is now? I don't do any professional work, but frequently go on photo trips to places with challenging environments (high humidity, heat, cold, rain/snow, salty air/spray, etc.). I've already committed to buying another Z8 as my primary camera (gulp!). It won't cost me anything to start using this body as my backup, but what should my expectations be as to how long it could survive as my backup body?

[joseph_smith3]

David, I do not know the answer to your question. For those with more expertise, I would also want to know if the damaged Z8 could possibly damage any lens attached to it?  Both the camera and the latest lenses have electronics in them. I would not want a lens to be damaged from being attached to a defective electronic device. 

[robert_bouknight1]

That was a tough fall!  Hope you did not get pneumonia.

Joseph smith does make a good point, though I think the risk of lens damage is fairly low.  Of course, you could use the camera with no risk to lenses with a "dumb" F or other mount adaptor.  Likely the camera won't live it's expected lifespan.

Also, people seem to pay high prices for water damaged cameras on ebay sometimes.

Edited December 7, 2023 by robert_bouknight1

[mike_halliwell]

'mostly works'...

So, after sensor cleaning it takes pictures OK?

I wonder what Nikon wanted to repair? (apart from the top LCD) The back one is OK?

What's a new one cost to you where you are?

Grey Z8's are £2950 in UK.

If it was an older body with a very high voltage capacitor for a pop-up flash, and it go wet, I'm not sure I'd want to use it.

Errr, how did the hotshoe spring clip come off? Did the camera hit/catch something on the way down?

[david_feindel]

Mike:

Never even needed to clean the sensor.  It takes pictures fine.  Nikon didn't provide an actual quote to repair it.  But I've heard that they categorically refuse to repair any saltwater immersion and are almost as reluctant to repair fresh water immersion.  Their refusal didn't surprise me in the least.  Yes, the body impacted a rock on the way down.  There's a chip in the plastic housing around the viewfinder about the size of a grain of rice, and an abrasion mark on the u-shaped piece of metal mounting bracket that holds a flash right above the now exposed PCB.  But no physical signs of damage otherwise.  

Thanks to all for your comments!

[ShunCheung]

On 12/7/2023 at 4:47 AM, david_feindel said:

But the camera now (mostly) works. The left half of the upper LCD display doesn't work, and the shoe for the flash is missing a spring clip, exposing a very small PCB. Everything else seems to work as it should. I can easily live with these parts not working on a backup camera body. The question is whether the damage will grow over time, or pretty much stay limited to what it is now? I don't do any professional work, but frequently go on photo trips to places with challenging environments (high humidity, heat, cold, rain/snow, salty air/spray, etc.). I've already committed to buying another Z8 as my primary camera (gulp!). It won't cost me anything to start using this body as my backup, but what should my expectations be as to how long it could survive as my backup body?

I am afraid that nobody can precisely predict whether the damage will worsen over time. If it were sea water, it is very likely that things will gradually rust and that Z8 will completely fail.

How long has it been since your Z8 initially fell into the freshwater lake? Most likely only time will tell. Since that Z8 has been shipped to Nikon and back, if that has been 2, 3, 4 weeks, you may luck out and the problem won't get worse any more.

In my case, I travel to very remote areas to photograph nature, and I typically bring at least three camera bodies with me as backup and second bodies. I have brought as many as four bodies. Personally I would not trust a camera with your description as a backup for my type of travel and how demanding I happen to be. Your preference is likely different. Worst case you can always sell your Z8 as parts and get some money back. The good thing is that at least in the US, there is a discount on the Z8.

[AlanKlein]

Why buy another camera, the same one you had,  that isn't sealed better?   

[CvhKaar]

Just two small questions : How long do you own this camera? , and did you pay for it by creditcard?

Why these questions : If you payed by creditcard, and you do not own it longer than 1/2 year ors o, it might be insured by your creditcard company....

[mike_halliwell]

28 minutes ago, AlanKlein said:

that isn't sealed better

I'd reckon the camera is sealed just fine.

However, a rock has smashed a hole in the top 'hump' exposing a PCB.

Even submarines aren't happy hitting rocks......🤣

[bgelfand]

Incidents like this are one of the reasons I carry All Hazards (AKA Inland Marine or Valuable Personal Property) insurance on all my camera gear - camera bodies, lenses, flashes. The major hazards I am not covered for are acts of war, Insurrection, and nuclear incidents (if we have a nuclear incident, the least of my worries is my cameras). My policy, USAA Valuable Personal Property Insurance, covers me world wide and also covers me if I ship my cameras by common carrier e.g. FedEx, UPS, Priority Mail, etc. I may decline the carriers insurance when shipping. Of course I am covered for the normal hazards - fire, theft, etc.

If this had happened to me, I would  have called USAA. They would have said, "If it is economically feasible, get it repaired; send us the bill. If it is not economically feasible, buy a new one; send us the bill (and probably the old body). You are covered up to the declared limits in your policy"  There is no deductible.

[mike_halliwell]

47 minutes ago, bgelfand said:

I carry All Hazards (AKA Inland Marine or Valuable Personal Property)

Annual cost is?

 

[Rick Helmke]

I’d say this is one time you’re best served by buying another and retiring this one. It will fail at the worst time. 
 

Rick H.

[bgelfand]

8 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

Annual cost is?

 

Of course, just like my home owner's policy and my auto policy.

 

The last time I needed to use it was in 2010 when we had a house fire. It paid to have my F100 and Coolscan V cleaned with no deductible. It also provided the insurance when I shipped my lenses and camera to Tamron to have the lenses adjusted. Insurance for transport through the carrier (FedEx) is expensive. Just as all my insurance, I have it and hope I never need it.

I am convinced that if I drop the policies, the Forces of Darkness will be unleashed and all my photo gear will be destroyed the day the policy lapses! 😉

[bgelfand]

8 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

Annual cost is?

 

Of course, just like my home owner's policy and my auto policy.

 

The last time I needed to use it was in 2010 when we had a house fire. It paid to have my F100 and Coolscan V cleaned with no deductible. It also provided the insurance when I shipped my lenses and camera to Tamron to have the lenses adjusted. Insurance for transport through the carrier (FedEx) is expensive. Just as all my insurance, I have it and hope I never need it.

I am convinced that if I drop the policies, the Forces of Darkness will be unleashed and all my photo gear will be destroyed the day the policy lapses! 😉

[bgelfand]

I misread your question. You are asking how much it costs. About 0.8% of the declared value of the property for cameras from my last bill. Other types of property cost different amounts; unfortunately cameras are among the most costly items to insure.

That is the cost if you live near Sacramento, CA. In other areas cost will very. It is also the cost through USAA, an insurance company that insures only U.S. military and former military and a few others like Public Health Service Officers, FBI Agents, and NOAA. I started insuring through them over 50-years ago as a young 2nd Lieutenant. USAA has some of the best rates and service among insurance companies.

[mike_halliwell]

Not sure of it's current $ value, but If you've got a good friend/relative who would benefit from a loaner, who couldn't normally afford a Z8, with the knowledge it might fail at any time, I'd go down that route.

I'd guess if it didn't die in 6 months of use, it's going to live a lot longer.

[ShunCheung]

2 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

I'd guess if it didn't die in 6 months of use, it's going to live a lot longer.

Yeah, if it is going to rust, or the moisture will gradually damage the electronics inside that Z8, that will likely going to happen in the next few months. If the condition does not worsen after several months, perhaps it can remain the same for a few years. Otherwise, some private repair shops could be interested in the parts. Also sometimes certain reviewers may be interested in taking a Z8 apart to examine further, but they would rather not spend the money on a working Z8.

[cfranco]

Dear David, I don't have that experience with a digital camera, but in the analogue era when a camera caught seawater, the solution to save it was to wash it thoroughly with fresh water (distilled water if possible). So I wouldn't be completely discouraged.
The first thing to do is remove the battery, which you did. The next task is to dry it completely as quickly as possible, which is not always easy. Silica helps but is insufficient. Normally, a hairdryer was used at minimum power and, when possible, the lower and upper covers were removed to allow air to circulate better. The aim is to completely dry the interior. What has been affected by contact with water, such as LCD panels, for example, and the functioning of which depends on them, will probably only be recoverable with replacement. As for the remaining electronic contacts, they usually resist better than our fears, as long as everything is kept dry.
Good luck

[mike_halliwell]

3 hours ago, cfranco said:

when a camera caught seawater,

= dead.

😞

 

[John Di Leo]

First, of course that sucks and especially so if you first had to send away for the mount, and then later for the lugs and now this!

Second, agree with Shun in his comments

Third, you fell in 6-8 inches ' 6-8" '? or 6-8 feet?

Fourth, so the insurance is about $32 USD a year?

[bgelfand]

If you are asking about the All Hazards insurance I posted about, it is approximately $8 (US) per $1,000 of insured value. For a $4,000 camera that would be approximately $32 (US) per year for a Z8. If your property is stolen or destroyed, USAA pays to replace it with a new camera; there is no deduction for depreciation.

An extreme example that happened to me. I had a Nikon FTn that I purchased in 1970 at the Canadian PX in Germany (U.S. troops could use the Canadian PX and vice versa) for the then princely sum of $150 (US) - almost half a months net pay for a Lieutenant. In the late 1970's, new FTn were no longer made. I asked USAA how I should value it. They replied that I should insure it for whatever the successor model would cost, new. By the early 2000's I had insured it for $1,700 - the cost of a new F5. A few years later, the house was burgled and my FTn was stolen. USAA paid me $1,700 for my then 30-year old FTn. As I wrote, they are one of the best insurance companies around.

[hjoseph7]

I know it's a terrible thing to talk about and I apologize, but I Insured about half of my photographic equipment through Hartford Photographers Insurance which cost me about $38 per month. This is mandatory for me since I cannot get any Real-Estate photography Gigs without any insurance. Currently, the Main-Dial on my Canon 6D, the camera that I use for work is failing. I asked Canon for a Quote and they came back with a $425 + shipping. That is about the same price as a Used Canon 6D on ebay. Since I have been paying The Hartdford for a few years now, this Post reminded me that I can maybe file a claim and see what happens. I also have home-owners insurance ($18.95) per month, but I'm not sure what that covers ? 

 Getting back to your camera, since it's relatively new,  it's going to pretty hard finding parts for it on the used market(That's if you or somebody is willing to fix it).  I know it's kind of aggravating, but maybe your best bet is to keep it as a back-up. You might also be able to put it up for sale AS-IS, or for parts only. Having a camera like that with flaws is like driving a Mercedes Benz with a big dent on it.

This is not the only horror story I have heard about cameras taking a dip into fresh or salt water. They pop-up on PN from time to time. This is why I stay clear from any water if possible when carrying equipment. Sometimes I have to take my camera out in pouring rain, or snow while shooting properties, but I make sure to wrap it up in a camera protective sleeve.  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/891383-REG/ruggard_rc_p18_18_plastic_rain_cover.html  I have several of them in my camera bag. This is also why I'm not getting rid of my Manual SLR's any time soon. 

The good thing is that your camera is 90% functional as you say. The bad thing is that anything can happen in the near future.  I once took a very expensive lens out in the pouring rain(Canon 70-200mm f2.8 IS). Even though I had a sleeve on it, when I tried to sell it, the Buyer told me that the lens had Condensation inside so he could only give me a certain amount for it. I lost a lot of money on that sale and the lens still worked perfectly ! Unfortunately, I needed the money.

Maybe you can find an electronic shop that might be willing to look at it. Taking it to Nikon is like taking your car back to the Dealer. They won't touch it unless they have the OEM parts on hand....  

Edited December 25, 2023 by hjoseph7

[mike_halliwell]

9 hours ago, hjoseph7 said:

the Buyer told me that the lens had Condensation inside so he could only give me a certain amount for it

Buyers try that sometimes.. ☹️

An overnight stay in a silica gel bag should fix that. Maybe cycle the zoom a few times.