I can't afford Ilford HP5 Plus any more. What is the best alternative (UK)?

[rexmarriott]

Today I turned to my trusted darkroom supplier to order a bulk roll (30m) of Ilford HP5 Plus and found it now retails at £105. It seems like yesterday that I was paying £60. I like this film, find it versatile and have got used to it, so it's with a heavy heart that I conclude that I can no longer afford it.

I've been using Fomapan 400 recently. I find that if I shoot it at 400 ISO I get images that are seriously underexposed, so I have to overexpose by at least 1 stop.

The other alternative for bulk loading I see is Kentmere 400.

Does anyone feel the same way as me about HP5? If so, what has been your chosen alternative? This is probably going to be a UK only thread, but you never know.

[rodeo_joe1]

Cheapest alternative would probably be a 15 year old camera like the Nikon Coolpix P5100. Now available for 50 or 60 quid, and  giving results like this - 

A one off payment that gets you a potentially infinite number of frames for next-to-nothing extra. 

You can boost the ISO to 3200 if you find the grain too fine for your liking. 

 

[James G. Dainis]

I believe the OP is asking about film not which digital camera to buy.

[Niels - NHSN]

Kentmere 400 or AgfaPhoto APX 400 - whichever is cheaper as it is likely the same product. Much better than Fomapan 400 which is at most ISO 200 if you care for shadow details.

[rexmarriott]

2 hours ago, Niels - NHSN said:

Kentmere 400 or AgfaPhoto APX 400 - whichever is cheaper as it is likely the same product. Much better than Fomapan 400 which is at most ISO 200 if you care for shadow details.

I've got a bulk roll (30m) of Kentmere 400 on order. Cost me £75. I'm also now using Kentmere paper instead of Ilford MGRC. As I understand it, Kentmere is now owned by Harman Technology, who also own Ilford. The Ilford Photo website says Kentmere 'follows the same high quality processes that are used to make all Ilford Photo films and papers.' If so, that'll do for me.

[rexmarriott]

2 hours ago, Niels - NHSN said:

Kentmere 400 or AgfaPhoto APX 400 - whichever is cheaper as it is likely the same product. Much better than Fomapan 400 which is at most ISO 200 if you care for shadow details.

I checked out prices for bulk rolls of AgfaPhoto APX 400. The Kentmere is cheaper here.

[rodeo_joe1]

21 hours ago, Niels - NHSN said:

Kentmere 400 or AgfaPhoto APX 400 - whichever is cheaper as it is likely the same product.

I doubt that they're the same. The Kentmere brand name has been owned by Harman technologies for many years, while the Agfa photo brand is owned and distributed by Lupus imaging & media. 

Rumour has it that Agfa films are manufactured by Fuji. Fuji photo products also being part of the Lupus portfolio.

FWIW, film has always been expensive stuff, both in time and materials. One of, if not the main reason, why digital so quickly displaced it. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by rodeo_joe1

[Niels - NHSN]

2 hours ago, rodeo_joe1 said:

I doubt that they're the same. The Kentmere brand name has been owned by Harman technologies for many years, while the Agfa photo brand is owned and distributed by Lupus imaging & media. 

Agfa APX 100 and 400 in 30.5m rolls are made in the UK - and since Ilford swears that they don't sell their Ilford branded film for others to re-brand, then only Kentmere is left. Fujifilm haven't made black and white consumer film for years, Ilford makes Acros 100 II (which is made to Fujifilms formulation and is a product with unique properties - not rebranded)

The Fujifilm agreement with AGFAPHOTO terminated in 2018. You cannot buy fresh single roll AGFAPHOTO color film to my knowledge, but I do see AGFAPhoto "LeBox" branded single use cameras with color film. Packaging indicates it is the same product as offered for rebranding sold out of China with film of unknown origin - I very much doubt it is Fujifilm.

Fujifilm is having so much trouble keeping up their production that they recently announced a temporary stop fulfilling orders on the Japanese market.

A year ago or so, Fujifilm stopped selling made in Japan Fujicolor C200 and replaced it with a US made "Fujifilm 200" (which shares identical datasheet with Kodak Gold 200).

B&H Photo Video's website shows that Fujicolor Superia X-Tra 400 is discontinued and takes preorders for a new "Fujifilm 400" with a "Made in USA" designation on the box - so probably re-branded UltraMax!

Edited April 6, 2023 by Niels - NHSN

[rexmarriott]

On 4/6/2023 at 11:49 AM, rodeo_joe1 said:

I doubt that they're the same. The Kentmere brand name has been owned by Harman technologies for many years, while the Agfa photo brand is owned and distributed by Lupus imaging & media. 

Rumour has it that Agfa films are manufactured by Fuji. Fuji photo products also being part of the Lupus portfolio.

FWIW, film has always been expensive stuff, both in time and materials. One of, if not the main reason, why digital so quickly displaced it. 

Today being a bank holiday I'm at a bit of a loose end, so I've been rummaging through old invoices to find out how much the price of Ilford HP5 has risen in the UK in recent times. I bought a 30m bulk roll in June 2022 for £69.17. The cost today, from the same supplier, is £105. I believe that this is a 51.8% increase in price 10 months. Gor blimey.

[rexmarriott]

26 minutes ago, rexmarriott said:

Today being a bank holiday I'm at a bit of a loose end, so I've been rummaging through old invoices to find out how much the price of Ilford HP5 has risen in the UK in recent times. I bought a 30m bulk roll in June 2022 for £69.17. The cost today, from the same supplier, is £105. I believe that this is a 51.8% increase in price 10 months. Gor blimey.

What of Fomapan 400? The price of a 30m roll in March 2022 was £40.25; today it costs £56, an increase of 39.1%. After the holiday, I think I might be getting in touch with Ilford.

[glen_h]

Store near me sells HP5+ for USD117.00/30.5m roll.

Delta 400 for USD96.00/30.5m roll.

Delta 100 only USD74.00/30.5m roll.

Kodak 400TX (that is, Tri-X) for USD182.00/30.5m roll.

TMax400 only USD138.00/30.5m roll.

In some cases, that costs more that the appropriate number of 135-36 rolls.

[conrad_hoffman]

Bulk always worked well for me as I tended to shoot short rolls, rather than waste pre-spooled longer ones. I disagree that film has always been expensive. It was priced for the masses and made in huge quantities. As a teenager I was able to do enough chores and such that it was no huge problem feeding my photography habit. A big jump occurred in (I think) 1979 or so, when the Hunt brothers tried to corner the silver market. The silver price fell, but the film companies liked the higher profits and never lowered the price of film. Naturally, as production falls, the price goes up. It's still not crazy if you're serious about using film. If you're really on a serious budget, film doesn't make a lot of sense. There are very few things it can do better these days, and it's incredibly time consuming in an age where we have less and less time.
 

[Minox]

Fomapan 400 was one of the very few choices I had, once the film price skyrocketed. Apart from some 30m rolls of APX 400, Tri-X and HP5 acquired right before the Covid time, I had to stock up a bit. My choice for 100 and 400 was Fomapan, but these are strange-behaving films. I tamed the 100 and 400 in the end, by shooting at box speed but process it at half the value. 

For Fomapan 400 you can see some results here, although nailing this film is still a work in progress: https://juliantanase.com/the-strangeness-of-fomapan-400/

Alternatively, I bought (not very recently, but last year in Dec) 2 rolls of 30m Ilford XP2, which is also one of the films with a very good value for money.

You may try the Rollei Retro 400 S, although I never shot this film. It's right under 60 euro, and not bad images out of it, from what I see around.

Wishing you good luck !

[rexmarriott]

On 4/20/2023 at 7:29 PM, Minox said:

Fomapan 400 was one of the very few choices I had, once the film price skyrocketed. Apart from some 30m rolls of APX 400, Tri-X and HP5 acquired right before the Covid time, I had to stock up a bit. My choice for 100 and 400 was Fomapan, but these are strange-behaving films. I tamed the 100 and 400 in the end, by shooting at box speed but process it at half the value. 

For Fomapan 400 you can see some results here, although nailing this film is still a work in progress: https://juliantanase.com/the-strangeness-of-fomapan-400/

Alternatively, I bought (not very recently, but last year in Dec) 2 rolls of 30m Ilford XP2, which is also one of the films with a very good value for money.

You may try the Rollei Retro 400 S, although I never shot this film. It's right under 60 euro, and not bad images out of it, from what I see around.

Wishing you good luck !

I've also taken to metering Fomapan 400 at 200 and developing as per 400 in Ilfosol 3 and the results are a lot better than if I follow Fomapan's recommendations.

As it happens, I just bought some more bulk film and there was no Fomapan 400 in stock, so I got Kentmere 400 instead for about £75 for 30.5m. This is a film I can shoot at box speed. My first impressions are favourable. Perhaps there is life after HP5.

[Minox]

Fotoimpex Germany has Foma 400 in stock, 100 and 200 as well, all in 30m rolls. Just a satisfied customer, no relation. 

[mjferron]

On 4/5/2023 at 7:56 AM, Niels - NHSN said:

Kentmere 400 or AgfaPhoto APX 400 - whichever is cheaper as it is likely the same product. Much better than Fomapan 400 which is at most ISO 200 if you care for shadow details.

Trust me Kentmere 400 is not the same as HP5+. Very grainy when shot at 400 in a number of developers.  At 200 it improved some. 

[Niels - NHSN]

6 hours ago, mjferron said:

Trust me Kentmere 400 is not the same as HP5+. 

You quoted me, but I don't think I made such a claim?

[mjferron]

So sorry. I misread somehow.