Issue with one of the main camera stores

[gmanfsu1973]

You all know the store. One of the ones that's closed every Saturday.

On Monday, 3/13, I ordered a Sony 12-24 F2.8 GM lens. I called ahead of time to see if I could get an improved price since I could order from Amazon and get a 5% statement credit on my Amazon credit card. They only offered $80, but they were offering next day shipping, giving me the lens on Tuesday so I didn't have to sit home on Wednesday for delivery signature. The other big store, which sells on Amazon, only offered 2 day shipping through Amazon. Since I took off Wed-Fri to spend time with my sons for spring break, it was worth the $70 difference to get the lens on Tuesday instead of Wednesday.

So I get a shipping update that the lens was picked up from the seller's NJ warehouse at 5:56pm Monday night. It then proceeds to disappear in FedEx's system until 11:41pm Tuesday night, so I had to sit around on Wednesday anyway. First fail.

The box arrives at 12:30 on Wednesday, in the first 5 minutes of the delivery window, so I was still in the shower and my 17 yr old signed for it. I notice the box feels a little light and open it. Instead of my $3k lens, there's a $20 Govee LED light strip. An item the store doesn't even sell.

I call them immediately and they say they have cameras in the warehouse and need to start an investigation. I ask, hypothetically, if the footage shows it wasn't packed correctly, because how could it have been?!?, what they would do. I was looking for an additional discount since it was already Wednesday and there was only an outside shot I'd receive the actual lens by Friday (which would require sitting around on another off day waiting to sign for a delivery). They said they would only offer to "re"send the lens. Well, that wasn't good enough for me, so I told them I'd rather just have a refund and ordered the lense from the other store through Amazon as soon as I hung up. Incidentally, the lens was supposed to arrive Friday from the other store, it came Thursday.

So, later that day, they send an email that the camera shows that the lens was loaded in the box and the box was sealed, and remained sealed when I got it, so they were denying my claim.

I confirmed with a family member who was worked for FedEx almost 35 years now that the shipping box definitely didn't come from FedEx and I can confirm from the several orders I've placed over the last couple of months that the store had just switched from a plain cardboard box with branded tape (which they'd been using since at least 2006 when I first got in to photography), to a plain, perforated but sealed cardboard box with no branding whatsoever within the last 3 weeks or so.

But in checking my tracking info, FedEx had the package weight as 2 lbs. Yet the shipping label said 3.34lbs. The whole package, on my kitchen scale, with the LED light strip in the package, weighed in at 1lb 9oz. And I know that FedEx/UPS/USPS all round up. 1.xlbs = 2 lbs. 2.xoz = 3oz. 8.1" = 9". That's how they bill. 

In fact, Sony has the lens (without front and rear caps, without the case it comes with, without the Sony box, without the bubble wrap and instructions) listed as 1.87lbs. So it's impossible that the lens and all of its packaging were in a 2lb box. Especially considering the box and packing material weigh 7.1oz by themselves.

Even after providing all this information to the store, their story is the package weighed 3.38lbs when it left their warehouse.

I've already filed a complaint with the NY BBB, disputed the charge with my bank and filed a claim with FedEx. I've informed B&H that I will be filing a report with the NYPD at noon tomorrow (which I will). I will also file a mail fraud claim with the USPS (private shipping still counts as mail fraud, my retired cop neighbor let me know).
 

Has anyone else had a similar experience? Were you successful in getting your funds refunded? Is there anything else I could be doing?

It really is a beautiful lens though...

[AJG]

Sorry for your troubles, but I have to say that I am quite surprised.  I have ordered many things from B&H over the last 30 years and every transaction and shipment has gone off without a hitch.  Incidentally, I am not an employee or affiliate of B&H, just a satisfied repeat customer.

[gmanfsu1973]

27 minutes ago, AJG said:

Sorry for your troubles, but I have to say that I am quite surprised.  I have ordered many things from B&H over the last 30 years and every transaction and shipment has gone off without a hitch.  Incidentally, I am not an employee or affiliate of B&H, just a satisfied repeat customer.

I was too. First bad experience, but it was a doozie. Both price-wise and the customer service level. And I had just made a $3,000+ purchase from them 2 weeks prior. Up over $7,000 in purchases since early December, not counting this $3,000 lens!

I did just get notification this morning that they have approved my claim and also received an affidavit for them to file a claim with their insurance company affirming I never received the lens, but honestly, with how they treated me during this whole process, I don't think I can ever, in good conscience, make another purchase from them again. Between how this went down and the automatic 5% effective discount from Adorama if I purchase through Amazon...

[Ricochetrider]

Wow.

I've ordered plenty of stuff from B&H but never had a problem like this. Over the years, between actually being in the store along with online service & orders, I'd give B&H a solid 9.8 out of 10- with only the single issue, related below. 

I did have a small problem purchasing a "used" RRS ball head for my tripod last year tho. BUT I put it down to a system error- either that or somebody got in their order a few seconds ahead of mine on THE one used head of interest. After some mucking about, I ended up with a NEW head for (somewhat significantly) more $$$. I was miffed, but it wasn't the end of the world. IMO calling them works pretty well, they mostly really try hard to make sure things are right. Their track record, in my personal experience, if not 100% perfect, is darn good.

@gmanfsu1973 said: I've already filed a complaint with the NY BBB, disputed the charge with my bank and filed a claim with FedEx. I've informed B&H that I will be filing a report with the NYPD at noon tomorrow (which I will). I will also file a mail fraud claim with the USPS (private shipping still counts as mail fraud, my retired cop neighbor let me know).
 

 Not to judge you per se, I get that it was a perfect storm of F ups that kinda landed on your shoulders, but I must say that your reaction seems a bit extreme... uncertain what the outcome of all that filing this & that will be- please do follow up and let us know how this ends. 

 

Moving on, -and also this is only MY experience: Fed Ex is THE worst. I dislike them in every way, shape, & form. Their customer service is pure shyte, everything about them just plain sucks.

This could be as much FedEx's fault as anyone's- that said, B&H should have a better handle on what's happening with their orders AND their shippers. 

Maybe the new "never buy a car that was BUILT on a Monday Morning" is "never buy a lens that will be SHIPPED on a Monday Morning"? 

 

Hey- and on the "bright" side (pun intended) you now have a FREE  "$20 Govee LED light strip".... 

or is this on impound at NYPD's Evidence Room as Exhibit A? 😀
 

Best Luck! 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Ricochetrider

[samstevens]

28 minutes ago, Ricochetrider said:

I must say that your reaction seems a bit extreme

I agree.

Before I even got to the complaint, I noted with surprise the mention of their being closed on Saturdays, which was obviously irrelevant to this situation. If the intent was to use that as a way to identify them without specifying their name, their name was, in fact, specified later in the same post.

[gmanfsu1973]

11 minutes ago, samstevens said:

I agree.

Before I even got to the complaint, I noted with surprise the mention of their being closed on Saturdays, which was obviously irrelevant to this situation. If the intent was to use that as a way to identify them without specifying their name, their name was, in fact, specified later in the same post.

The name mention was inadvertent. I don't care about naming them. In fact, I would have preferred to name them throughout my post, but was trying to avoid having the post moderated and deleted. But it was a long post and I forgot to switch the name to "the seller" in one sentence.

The mention of closed Saturdays was relevant because it identified the store as one of the 2 big NYC stores, both with excellent reputations. If I was dealing with Abe's or some fly by night store, I'd say I got what I deserved trying to get a "too good to be true" price from an irreputable seller. But I went to probably the #1 place that would have been recommended to me by most on this, or any other discussion forum. So yes, it was relevant to identify the seller as one of the two with the best reputations.

Quite frankly, I resent your insinuation that my description was antisemitic. Would you feel the same if I identified a fast food chicken place I was having an issue with as the one closed on Sundays? Or the arts/crafts/hobby store that's closed on Sundays?

[gmanfsu1973]

56 minutes ago, Ricochetrider said:

Not to judge you per se, I get that it was a perfect storm of F ups that kinda landed on your shoulders, but I must say that your reaction seems a bit extreme...

I disagree. I don't tolerate people stealing from me. And I don't cowtow to large businesses taking advantage of customers.

As an example, I closed a Spectrum account last year. The account was nearly 3 years old, well past the 1 year early termination penalty phase. I closed the account 1 day after the billing date. My monthly bill was $69.99, with everything included. I had the paperwork to show that I had paid the previous month's balance in full, so at most, my final bill should have been $72.32 (When services went out over the 3 years I had the service, which was often, the statement credit I would receive was always 1/30 of my monthly bill, even in 28 and 31 day months).  Spectrum never sent me a final bill, but a month later I received a bill showing my outstanding bill from the month before was $100 and I still owed them $100. I called them dozens of time requesting an accounting of how my account went from $0 to $100 when the monthly rate was $70. They refused and said they would just send me a copy of my bill, again and again. The same bill that showed an opening balance of $100 for some time frame after the account was closed. I refused to pay. For $30 I let it hit my credit report. It caused my score to drop by 15 points. But I was in the right. I fought the credit report listing and sued Spectrum in small claims court under the FDCPA and won a $500 judgement against them 2 months ago and the credit report listing was removed last month.

As I stated in my response to the original commenter, B&H emailed me this morning approving my claim. They were unresponsive last week. Wouldn't send me the video they said showed the lens being sealed in a box, just stated they were denying my claim. By keeping on them, filing claims with BBB and FedEx, and threatening them with legal claims as well, that's what kept them investigating and deciding to approve my claim. Personally arguing with them, even when I showed them the tracking info that the box that FedEx picked up weighed 2lbs, according to FedEx, got me nowhere.

[AlanKlein]

You said B&H initially told you on your first call to them that they had to investigate before they could do anything.  That sounds reasonable. Apparently, it took a few days for them to check.  Now they are giving you a credit.  Apparently, FedEx screwed up or there was some theft or legal or illegal swap of packages after B&H shipped the package as the contents contained something B&H doesn't sell.   It seems they treated you fairly for the difficult process you went through.  

[William Michael]

On 3/21/2023 at 12:52 AM, gmanfsu1973 said:

I did just get notification this morning that they have approved my claim and also received an affidavit for them to file a claim with their insurance company affirming I never received the lens,

Then the main issue raised in this conversation issue is now resolved.

On 3/21/2023 at 12:52 AM, gmanfsu1973 said:

but honestly, with how they treated me during this whole process, I don't think I can ever, in good conscience, make another purchase from them again. Between how this went down and the automatic 5% effective discount from Adorama if I purchase through Amazon...

This is a secondary topic.

Several Secondary Topics were begun as a result of the (detailed) Opening Post.

The conversation will continue to harvest opinion and comment, provided the conversation remains within this Forum's Guidelines.

William

   

[henryp]

Gary: I appreciate your orders and regret your dissatisfaction. On 03/21/23 we authorized and posted a full refund for 100% of the amount of the original purchase. Thank you for your patience while this was investigated and has been resolved. 

Edited March 21, 2023 by henryp

[Ricochetrider]

On 3/20/2023 at 1:40 PM, gmanfsu1973 said:

I disagree. I don't tolerate people stealing from me. And I don't cowtow to large businesses taking advantage of customers.

As an example, I closed a Spectrum account last year. The account was nearly 3 years old, well past the 1 year early termination penalty phase. I closed the account 1 day after the billing date. My monthly bill was $69.99, with everything included. I had the paperwork to show that I had paid the previous month's balance in full, so at most, my final bill should have been $72.32 (When services went out over the 3 years I had the service, which was often, the statement credit I would receive was always 1/30 of my monthly bill, even in 28 and 31 day months).  Spectrum never sent me a final bill, but a month later I received a bill showing my outstanding bill from the month before was $100 and I still owed them $100. I called them dozens of time requesting an accounting of how my account went from $0 to $100 when the monthly rate was $70. They refused and said they would just send me a copy of my bill, again and again. The same bill that showed an opening balance of $100 for some time frame after the account was closed. I refused to pay. For $30 I let it hit my credit report. It caused my score to drop by 15 points. But I was in the right. I fought the credit report listing and sued Spectrum in small claims court under the FDCPA and won a $500 judgement against them 2 months ago and the credit report listing was removed last month.

As I stated in my response to the original commenter, B&H emailed me this morning approving my claim. They were unresponsive last week. Wouldn't send me the video they said showed the lens being sealed in a box, just stated they were denying my claim. By keeping on them, filing claims with BBB and FedEx, and threatening them with legal claims as well, that's what kept them investigating and deciding to approve my claim. Personally arguing with them, even when I showed them the tracking info that the box that FedEx picked up weighed 2lbs, according to FedEx, got me nowhere.

 

 

First of all whatever your experience with outfit X has zero bearing here.
 

Secondly, your accusation of B&H “stealing” from you seems 100% reactionary and outright laughable to me man. 🤪 B&H is a long standing company with a decades long track record of customer satisfaction. They in no way would actively attempt to steal from you or anyone else.
 

Simply put, mistakes are made by humans, hands-on, during data input, and in myriad other ways. There are certainly many places in the chain between you hitting the “submit” button to complete a transaction and the delivery person dropping the package on your doorstep where anything can- and sometimes does happen. I have no way of knowing but would bet the numbers of mistakes made by B&H is quite minimal indeed, compared side by side with orders successfully filled with zero issues daily, weekly, monthly, annually.
 

Anecdotally, I myself have been buying from B&H for years both in store and online. In all that time over all my transactions, a single mistake was made - and fixed to my satisfaction in a reasonable time frame. 
 

It’s not like they picked you out of thousands to intentionally mess with or steal from. All your filings made you feel better and no doubt. But the mistake would have been righted eventually anyway- ITS WHAT THEY DO, in keeping with not only my personal experience but also as millions of customers worldwide, over however many years, will, would & do happily attest.

I’ll give you one and say maybe (complete conjecture of course but I’ll go with you on it) some warehouse schmuck stole the lens- BUT NOT AS AN AGENT OF B&H IN A PERSONAL ATTACK ON YOU. 

 

Meanwhile, you have certainly returned -or made every effort to return, the Govee Light Strip, yes? Somebody out there somewhere is almost certainly going ape shit over having been stolen from. Surely you can relate? 

And you not only want to help them get their light strip-  but also wouldn’t want to be seen as one who would keep something not rightfully yours, am I right? 😁

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Ricochetrider

[Monophoto]

Many years ago, I asked my wife to give me a darkroom item for Christmas, and even ordered it from a well-known photographic supplier in Los Angeles.  It arrived, and without opening the box, I handed it off to her to wrap.

When I opened the package on Christmas morning, I first noticed that a detachable part was missing.  Then, I flipped it over and noticed initials written on the bottom with a Sharpie.  Other than those two points, it seemed to be in perfect condition.  Ah ha - it had been sold and returned, and then placed back into inventory as a new item even through the circumstances clearly demanded that it be treated as used but in excellent condition.

I sent them an e-mail (on Christmas day) and receive a reply the next morning - they acknowledged the error, had already shipped a new easel to me, and were sending a shipping label for the to return the used easel.

So my conclusions were:

• s**t happens, to anyone and at any time
• the measure of the quality of a company is not whether they have problems, but rather how they resolve them

My experience has been that reputable suppliers are very sensitive to customer satisfaction, and respond quickly when a problem is discovered.  Sure, the time required to address a problem can vary - smaller companies may take a bit longer than larger companies, and its only reasonable for it to take a bit longer to resolve a problem involving more expensive items since the company needs to do a more comprehensive investigation.  But when problems happen, good companies resolve them.  They have to - that's how they maintain their reputation as a good company.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Monophoto

[Robin Smith]

Quote

the measure of the quality of a company is not whether they have problems, but rather how they resolve them

 

Too true. In my very humble opinion the OP went berserk unnecessarily. Give the guys at B&H time to resolve the issue, before calling in the cops. All the action probably did nothing to speed up the resolution.

[paddler4]

I too have purchased a lot from B&H over the years--virtually all of my equipment over the past 15 years or so--and have not had problems. I have rarely needed customer service, but when I have, it's generally been very good. One time, a hair light arrived broken, and they simply replaced it. One time I made a mistake in my order, and they accepted the return. I recently had several problems with Commenity Bank, which now handles B&H's credit cards, and B&H's customer service got involved even though the problem was entirely with the bank. I have never been treated in any way other than courteously.

You wrote: "The mention of closed Saturdays was relevant because it identified the store as one of the 2 big NYC stores, both with excellent reputations." Do you didn't mean to identify B&H, but you wanted to tell us that it was B&H or Adorama and not say which. And while you may have not intended it, the choice of wording also also struck me as bigoted. You could have simply written "one of the two big NYC scores with excellent reputations," since that's what you say you wanted to convey. The fact that they close on Saturday is irrelevant.

"I was looking for an additional discount". Not enough just to fix the mistake?

It sounds to me that either someone goofed, or someone filched the contents, and that the initial response wasn't great but that B&H made good in the end. For this you call the police? BTW, if you contest the charge and the bank voids the charge, you haven't bought anything, and I don't think they have no obligation to send you anything. .

"I don't think I can ever, in good conscience, make another purchase from them again." Then don't. I certainly will.

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by paddler4

[gmanfsu1973]

While I'd like to respond individually, I'm not going to. I'll try to address most of the points.

• The issue with Spectrum had no bearing on B&H, but does have a bearing as insight in to my psyche. I will not tolerate theft or bad actions by large companies and will act in my own detriment if I'm in the right.
• Everyone is missing the part where B&H emailed me several hours after I reported the missing lens to let me know the investigation was concluded and they were not refunding or sending the lens. I then presented them with proof whereby Fed Ex had weighed the package and it was only 2 lbs, so it obviously could not have held a 1.87lb lens, both lens caps, a case, the Sony packaging, bubble wrap and a 7.1 oz box. The response I got was that the package weighed 3.38 lbs when it was sent (yet the shipping label said 3.34lbs). The next communication I received was the following Monday morning when I received an email approving my claim. At no point after the initial video review, when I was informed the investigation was closed, was I ever informed they were still investigating (and honestly, I don't think they were).
• I couldn't care less if someone thinks the Saturday comment was bigoted. It wasn't how it was meant, and personally, I'm an atheist and think anyone that believes in a god is delusional. Yet at the same time, have to admit I'm jealous of people with moderate faith. Seems pretty freeing to be able to blame every bad thing that happens to you on a larger plan of some supreme being rather than your own bad luck or short comings. And even more so to think that every good thing is due to some supreme being looking out for you specifically. 
• And if I paid $3000 for a lens and took an $80 discount instead of a $150 amazon credit just to have it by Tuesday instead of Wednesday, why on earth would receiving the lens the following Monday (or thereabouts) be ok with me without at least an additional discount to match what I would have gotten (and ultimately did get) from Adorama through Amazon?
  • Just my willingness to work out a deal with B&H after being sent crapola instead of my $3000 lens is evidence that I understand things happen. The reason for my post is how poorly I was treated from the minute I reported the incident to B&H. And I've been spending money like a drunken sailor there so far this year!
• As for returning the light strip, I won't pay for it, but will gladly return it if B&H wants to send me a return shipping label. You act like I'm getting over on them. Incidentally, I bought 4 of these things last mas - 2 for my oldest son and 2 for my youngest son. The oldest hung his up and it's the only light he uses so I get a headache every dang time I walk in his room. The 2 for my oldest are still factory packed in their boxes and sitting on the floor under his dresser. I didn't want or need another set!
• Honestly, I don't even think someone stole the lens, with the possible exception of whoever purchased the light strip but received a $3,000 camera lens instead. I think that within the last month or so, B&H has begun outsourcing their warehouse/shipping operations. I believe the third party now in charge of that function screwed up and mixed up two orders for different sellers. It's the only thing that really makes any sense, considering everyone's on camera, I received an item they don't even sell, the package weight was off, etc.

Lastly, I will say that I arbitrarily chose B&H over Adorama back in like 2006. Probably mostly due to the cleanliness of their website. They were never my exclusive store, but always preferred. I don't know if I will buy from them again, but it'll be tough to pass up the automatic 5% credits through Amazon. Plus, I ordered the lens from Adorama on Wednesday, 3/15 through Amazon. That was the same day that I received the light strip. The lens was supposed to arrive on Friday. It came on Thursday, allowing me to capture the attached on Friday while spending all day out with my sons.

[gmanfsu1973]

On 3/21/2023 at 12:22 PM, henryp said:

Gary: I appreciate your orders and regret your dissatisfaction. On 03/21/23 we authorized and posted a full refund for 100% of the amount of the original purchase. Thank you for your patience while this was investigated and has been resolved. 

Thank you Henry. Honestly, you guys really dropped the ball in how you treated me. My claim should never have simply been summarily denied. If B&H was still investigating, I should have been informed of such investigation. I requested the video used to deny my claim on 3/15. Not only did I never receive the video (which is moot now), my request was never even acknowledged. I know this is a drop in the bucket of what B&H sells each day, but I'd imagine this sale was well in excess of the median sale, and it was made only 2 weeks after a $4,100+ order. I'd imagine $7200+ spent in the last 2 weeks on a non-commercial account would put me in the top 1% for winter 2023, and I had a few other orders over the winter as well. I imagine I will be making at least one more purchase since I need 2 RRS PG-01 with lever clamps for the summer vacay to Great Sand Dunes and Moab, and everyone is out of stock, but only B&H had a stock notification offer. But beyond that, it's a long road to earn my trust back after that. 

[Ricochetrider]

Hey thanks for following up. Nice photos! 

[paddler4]

I won't comment further on your problems with your purchase. However, if the mod will accept my commenting on another aspect of this, I would like to. I think it's important enough to warrant a digression.

You wrote:

Quote

I couldn't care less if someone thinks the Saturday comment was bigoted. It wasn't how it was meant, and personally, I'm an atheist and think anyone that believes in a god is delusional.

There are two problems with this.

First, you clearly don't understand antisemitism. It usually has nothing whatever to do with the religious beliefs of Jews. The armed racists who chanted "Jews will not replace us" in Charlottesville weren't concerned about Friday evening prayers. The Republicans in the House and right-wing commentators who have pilloried Alvin Bragg for supposedly "listening to his master, George Soros" (that particular quote is from Fox) don't care and probably don't even know whether Soros is an observant Jew or an atheist. I doubt very much whether the antisemites who murdered virtually every member of our family in Europe, including children, first lined them up and asked who was a believer. So what made your phrasing offensive to me had nothing to do with observing the Jewish Sabbath. it was offensive because it came across as "see, one of the stores owned by Jews".

I'll take you at your word that you meant no offence. But if that's the case, "I couldn't care less" is not an appropriate response when people tell you they found it offensive. An appropriate response would be "I meant no offense, but I apologize for inadvertently offending people."

[AlanKlein]

On 3/21/2023 at 4:48 PM, Ricochetrider said:

First of all whatever your experience with outfit X has zero bearing here.
 

Secondly, your accusation of B&H “stealing” from you seems 100% reactionary and outright laughable to me man. 🤪 B&H is a long standing company with a decades long track record of customer satisfaction. They in no way would actively attempt to steal from you or anyone else.
 

Simply put, mistakes are made by humans, hands-on, during data input, and in myriad other ways. There are certainly many places in the chain between you hitting the “submit” button to complete a transaction and the delivery person dropping the package on your doorstep where anything can- and sometimes does happen. I have no way of knowing but would bet the numbers of mistakes made by B&H is quite minimal indeed, compared side by side with orders successfully filled with zero issues daily, weekly, monthly, annually.
 

Anecdotally, I myself have been buying from B&H for years both in store and online. In all that time over all my transactions, a single mistake was made - and fixed to my satisfaction in a reasonable time frame. 
 

It’s not like they picked you out of thousands to intentionally mess with or steal from. All your filings made you feel better and no doubt. But the mistake would have been righted eventually anyway- ITS WHAT THEY DO, in keeping with not only my personal experience but also as millions of customers worldwide, over however many years, will, would & do happily attest.

I’ll give you one and say maybe (complete conjecture of course but I’ll go with you on it) some warehouse schmuck stole the lens- BUT NOT AS AN AGENT OF B&H IN A PERSONAL ATTACK ON YOU. 

 

Meanwhile, you have certainly returned -or made every effort to return, the Govee Light Strip, yes? Somebody out there somewhere is almost certainly going ape shit over having been stolen from. Surely you can relate? 

And you not only want to help them get their light strip-  but also wouldn’t want to be seen as one who would keep something not rightfully yours, am I right? 😁

 

Maybe the Govee Light Strip purchaser got the lens and are even happier.  😉 

[AlanKlein]

8 hours ago, gmanfsu1973 said:

While I'd like to respond individually, I'm not going to. I'll try to address most of the points.

• The issue with Spectrum had no bearing on B&H, but does have a bearing as insight in to my psyche. I will not tolerate theft or bad actions by large companies and will act in my own detriment if I'm in the right.
• Everyone is missing the part where B&H emailed me several hours after I reported the missing lens to let me know the investigation was concluded and they were not refunding or sending the lens. I then presented them with proof whereby Fed Ex had weighed the package and it was only 2 lbs, so it obviously could not have held a 1.87lb lens, both lens caps, a case, the Sony packaging, bubble wrap and a 7.1 oz box. The response I got was that the package weighed 3.38 lbs when it was sent (yet the shipping label said 3.34lbs). The next communication I received was the following Monday morning when I received an email approving my claim. At no point after the initial video review, when I was informed the investigation was closed, was I ever informed they were still investigating (and honestly, I don't think they were).
• I couldn't care less if someone thinks the Saturday comment was bigoted. It wasn't how it was meant, and personally, I'm an atheist and think anyone that believes in a god is delusional. Yet at the same time, have to admit I'm jealous of people with moderate faith. Seems pretty freeing to be able to blame every bad thing that happens to you on a larger plan of some supreme being rather than your own bad luck or short comings. And even more so to think that every good thing is due to some supreme being looking out for you specifically. 
• And if I paid $3000 for a lens and took an $80 discount instead of a $150 amazon credit just to have it by Tuesday instead of Wednesday, why on earth would receiving the lens the following Monday (or thereabouts) be ok with me without at least an additional discount to match what I would have gotten (and ultimately did get) from Adorama through Amazon?
  • Just my willingness to work out a deal with B&H after being sent crapola instead of my $3000 lens is evidence that I understand things happen. The reason for my post is how poorly I was treated from the minute I reported the incident to B&H. And I've been spending money like a drunken sailor there so far this year!
• As for returning the light strip, I won't pay for it, but will gladly return it if B&H wants to send me a return shipping label. You act like I'm getting over on them. Incidentally, I bought 4 of these things last mas - 2 for my oldest son and 2 for my youngest son. The oldest hung his up and it's the only light he uses so I get a headache every dang time I walk in his room. The 2 for my oldest are still factory packed in their boxes and sitting on the floor under his dresser. I didn't want or need another set!
• Honestly, I don't even think someone stole the lens, with the possible exception of whoever purchased the light strip but received a $3,000 camera lens instead. I think that within the last month or so, B&H has begun outsourcing their warehouse/shipping operations. I believe the third party now in charge of that function screwed up and mixed up two orders for different sellers. It's the only thing that really makes any sense, considering everyone's on camera, I received an item they don't even sell, the package weight was off, etc.

Lastly, I will say that I arbitrarily chose B&H over Adorama back in like 2006. Probably mostly due to the cleanliness of their website. They were never my exclusive store, but always preferred. I don't know if I will buy from them again, but it'll be tough to pass up the automatic 5% credits through Amazon. Plus, I ordered the lens from Adorama on Wednesday, 3/15 through Amazon. That was the same day that I received the light strip. The lens was supposed to arrive on Friday. It came on Thursday, allowing me to capture the attached on Friday while spending all day out with my sons.

...

Sorry, I missed the part in your post where B&H emailed you the investigation was closed and the issue is yours before you got further involved.    It raises a question that B&H's Henry Posner should answer.  Does the problem become the purchaser's once the package leaves B&H warehouse? 

B&H took the initial "your problem" decision apparently because their video and records showed it was shipped properly.  Then any mistakes or theft afterward during shipping becomes the purchaser's problem. Although they corrected it eventually, it seems it was your active opposition that got them involved again after their first email to you.   

B&H should clarify their policy regarding this issue. Right now it seems they initially took no responsibility for possible shipping issues and theft during shipping.  It also would help if they would describe what their investigation showed in this case. I buy from B&H and have been satisfied.  But I have to agree that they were too quick in this case to shift responsibility to the purchaser. 

[AlanKlein]

2 hours ago, paddler4 said:

I won't comment further on your problems with your purchase. However, if the mod will accept my commenting on another aspect of this, I would like to. I think it's important enough to warrant a digression.

You wrote:

There are two problems with this.

First, you clearly don't understand antisemitism. It usually has nothing whatever to do with the religious beliefs of Jews. The armed racists who chanted "Jews will not replace us" in Charlottesville weren't concerned about Friday evening prayers. The Republicans in the House and right-wing commentators who have pilloried Alvin Bragg for supposedly "listening to his master, George Soros" (that particular quote is from Fox) don't care and probably don't even know whether Soros is an observant Jew or an atheist. I doubt very much whether the antisemites who murdered virtually every member of our family in Europe, including children, first lined them up and asked who was a believer. So what made your phrasing offensive to me had nothing to do with observing the Jewish Sabbath. it was offensive because it came across as "see, one of the stores owned by Jews".

I'll take you at your word that you meant no offence. But if that's the case, "I couldn't care less" is not an appropriate response when people tell you they found it offensive. An appropriate response would be "I meant no offense, but I apologize for inadvertently offending people."

I'm a Jew and believe the OP's statement there was no bigoted comments intended. He said was trying to mention B&H without actually using their name and violating the forum's possible rules.  Bringing up all these other horrible instances of antisemitism and trying to make a comparison to this issue and requiring he defend himself against these huge charges is unfair and beyond the pale.  It also reduces the horror of those crimes in comparison.  I'm sure that's something none of us wants to do - you, me or the poster.  

[paddler4]

good heavens. I wasn't implying that the OP's comment was comparable to the examples I listed, and if anyone took it that way, I apologize for creating that impression.

My point was simply to use examples that everyone should know to make it clear that antisemitism has very little--often nothing whatever--to do with the religious practices of the people subjected to it.

What bothered me here was the gratuitous identification of the store as being owned by Jews. As I said, I take the OP at their word that they had no bigoted intent.

 

[c_watson1]

Distinct odor of fish about all this. Fretting about a $70-80 discount and CC kickbacks on a 3 grand lens is, well...Would love to see/ your exchanges with B&H.

[hjoseph7]

I once filed a claim against FedEx and if I remember correctly it took about 3 weeks to get resolved. I don't remeber what that claim was about, but it certainly wasn't for $3k. I can't imagine how you feel and I'm really sorry ! I hit the roof if I don't receive a  $20 item on time. Not because it cost me $20, but because of the expectation. However $3K is on another level ! 

I had some minor problems with B&H, but I would have to say they amount to maybe 5% of the purchases I made with them throughout the years. Once when a $900  lens was dropped on my porch without requiring a signature. This was the first time I had problems with B&H so I wrote it off as a carrier mistake. B&H has a policy that anything over $200 or $300 requires a signature. In any case, I was so glad to get the lens without having to skip to the Fedex office that I forgot all about it. The second time  was when B&H shipped an Item that was no more than 5 inches long and weighed less than 2 pounds in a huge 4 ' x 5"  (yes thats 4 feet by 5 inch) box which I had to retrieve about 30 feet from my porch due to the wind blowing it all over the place. More recently B&H sent me an item that I did not order, but sent the item I ordered to another person. Lucky for me I was able to contact the recepient of my order and we sort of worked it out.

Because of these experiences, these days I only purchase from B&H  when its absolutely neccessary and if the item costs less than $100. It seemed to me that B&H has either gotten too big for itself or has lost control of their shipping department. Maybe because they are trying to compete with Amazon and their 2-day shipping ?

As bad as B&H has gotten I considered them a safe alternative to Adorama whose shipping dept has really hit rock botom in the last few years. Unfortunately, yes things do dissapear from FedEx, UPS and even USPS. Not often, but it does happen. I once sent my nephew a pair of Audio speakers worth about $400 and they dissapeared from the face of the earth. Not sure if it was UPS, FedEX or USPS ?  

 

[samstevens]

As long as the conversation has continued to be civil, I’d like to add something, which will be my final word on the subject, since I first brought this up.

I did not read anti-semitism into the original reference. I assumed it was an innocently-intended detail. So my problem isn’t with the intent as much as the identification itself.

Bringing attention to another’s ethnic, cultural, sexual or other identity, unless there’s context to do so, is unnecessary and often highlights something that is different but irrelevant. I might choose to introduce myself as a gay man for any number of reasons, depending on the situation, just as I might bring up the fact that I’m Jewish were it relevant. But someone else introducing me as their gay, Jewish friend would not sit well with me and I, thankfully, don’t think I have friends that would do that. I wouldn’t necessarily think it was done out of anti-semitism or homophobia as much as out of a benign unawareness.

As I did here, I wouldn’t hold it against anyone, unless I sensed malicious intent, which I didn’t. I would, however, bring it to their attention, which I did.

I would hope for a gracious response in return, but I’ve learned not always to expect that. Then I move on, comfortable in my own skin.

Edited March 26, 2023 by samstevens