frans_waterlander Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, digitaldog said: He is lost again Tony and unable to follow the simplest instructions to aid him in solving the issue: Zoom into the 16-bit image until you see the green issue; make screen capture.Zoom into the 8-bit image the same way; make screen capture. Save crop (or entire image) in native format, zip and upload both to something like Dropbox. No wonder everyone on the other two forums has given up on this silliness. Not very helpful, if I may be so blunt. Never used dropbox or anything like it and if it isn't free, I'm not going to use it. Can you suggest how I get these files into your hands for free? Edited March 6, 2023 by frans_waterlander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, frans_waterlander said: Not very helpful, if I may be so blunt. Too bad. You're utterly unable to follow the most straightforward instructions as outlined a few minutes ago. Sending a raw is pointless as I'm sure Tony knows. 6 minutes ago, frans_waterlander said: Never used dropbox or anything like it and if it isn't free, I'm not going to use it. Its clear you know nothing about Dropbox (or alternatives), both available for free. IF it isn't free? "Ignorance is brought about by assumption."-T. D. Jakes 6 minutes ago, frans_waterlander said: Can you suggest how I get these files into you hands without paying? Yes. But any further suggestions would be ignored as all the other suggestions here have been by the two of us. It's rather clear on all three sites you've asked about this 'issue' that the agenda isn't a solution, it rarely is with you. You got a few people's attention, the real agenda; isn't that enough for you until next time? Appears not. Edited March 6, 2023 by digitaldog Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 4 minutes ago, digitaldog said: Too bad. You're utterly unable to follow the most straightforward instructions as outlined a few minutes ago. Sending a raw is pointless as I'm sure Tony knows. Its clear you know nothing about Dropbox (or alternatives), both available for free. IF it isn't free? "Ignorance is brought about by assumption."-T. D. Jakes Yes. But any further suggestions would be ignored as all the other suggestions here have been by the two of us. It's rather clear on all three sites you've asked about this 'issue' that the agenda isn't a solution, it rarely is with you. You got a few people's attention, the real agenda; isn't that enough for you until next time? Appears not. Never let an opportunity to insult unused, right? I did open a free dropbox account and even as we speak I'm uploading the RAW file. Tell me why the RAW file would be useless to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, frans_waterlander said: Never let an opportunity to insult unused, right? I did open a free dropbox account and even as we speak I'm uploading the RAW file. Tell me why the RAW file would be useless to you. "The first human being who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization." -Sigmund Freud Just follow the instructions or move on! Zoom into the 16-bit image until you see the green issue; make screen capture.Zoom into the 8-bit image the same way; make screen capture. Save crop (or entire image) in native format, zip and upload both to something like Dropbox. The raw isn't the issue; it IS RAW! Are you that lost on problem-solving what you tell us is a bug in Elements (more assumptions)? Just send a tagged image in the ORIGINAL format (TIFF, PSD, whatever) in both 8-bit and 16-bit that YOU PROCESSED in Elements. I don’t know if you are purposely trying not to understand this, or if you are really struggling with it. Wait, it's both. Edited March 6, 2023 by digitaldog Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 Andrew, will send those files. Do you want me to email those to you, in which case I need your email address because this forum only allows max 4.88MB or do you want me to upload to dropbox.com? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 Just now, frans_waterlander said: Andrew, will send those files. Do you want me to email those to you, in which case I need your email address because this forum only allows max 4.88MB or do you want me to upload to dropbox.com? Read what I wrote! Do what I asked for! Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, digitaldog said: Read what I wrote! Do what I asked for! Yes, sir! However, little problem. The screen shots are no issue, but the 16-bit processed-by-me file shows the green patches after haze removal (of course) but when I save it in order to zip it, the patches disappear upon saving. Do you still want that file? Any suggestions? Edited March 6, 2023 by frans_waterlander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyW Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 (edited) As Andrew has already said the raw file is not really of use in this case other than to confirm that there is nothing of concern with the capture. There is no sign of any channel clipping as can be seen in the histogram attached; in fact another stop or so would still be within an acceptable exposure range. I cannot repeat your green highlights even taking Dehaze to maximum and adding saturation and vibrance in ACR How is your monitor profiled i.e. do you use a calibration device and make sure that Windows is actually using the ICC profile you made? Please follow Andrews request for images Edited March 6, 2023 by TonyW 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 7 minutes ago, frans_waterlander said: Yes, sir! However, little problem. The screen shots are no issue, but the 16-bit processed-by-me file shows the green patches after haze removal (of course) but when I save it in order to zip it, the patches disappear upon saving. Do you still want that file? Any suggestions? Read what I wrote! Do what I asked for! Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 10 minutes ago, TonyW said: As Andrew has already said the raw file is not really of use in this case other than to confirm that there is nothing of concern with the capture. There is no sign of any channel clipping as can be seen in the histogram attached; in fact another stop or so would still be within an acceptable exposure range. How is your monitor profiled i.e. do you use a calibration device and make sure that Windows is actually using the ICC profile you made? Please follow Andrews request for images Well, in my Photoshop Elements 2021 all the problem areas show Red at 255, so why do you see no red channel clipping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 (edited) Here goes: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c8ox9i40nvol2eg/AZsunset8bitjpg.zip?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/2cm7jdqrj55f5f1/AZsunset8bitPSD.zip?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/7qdzex5x3gybgs7/AZsunset16bitjpg.zip?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/ndk7wzz8o0nm9a1/AZsunset16bitPSD.zip?dl=0 The jpg's are low resolution screen shots, the PSD's are the complete files edited in my PSE program, including haze removal. Edited March 6, 2023 by frans_waterlander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyW Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 10 minutes ago, frans_waterlander said: Well, in my Photoshop Elements 2021 all the problem areas show Red at 255, so why do you see no red channel clipping? You are not looking at raw data in ACR. What you are seeing is a rendering of your image data with varying adjustments including exposure changes including baseline compensation and camera profile preset adjustments to make the initial image look good as a starting point. The net result of these adjustments can look like you have clipped channels when in fact you may have less than optimal exposure in the raw file, this may be as much as 1.5 stops less than optimal. The Rawdigger histogram shows an accurate view of your raw image data without any additional rendering 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Something seems to be messed up in your document. Yes I see the green on your 16-bit version; worse is what I see on your 8-bit per color document in the preview (see below). Yes, zooming in, it disappears so it's not in the data! If I open a 16-bit document of mine and run either Haze Removal or Auto Haze Removal, there are no issues (see below). So the next question is, do you only see this green issue on this one image? 1 Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, TonyW said: You are not looking at raw data in ACR. What you are seeing is a rendering of your image data with varying adjustments including exposure changes including baseline compensation and camera profile preset adjustments to make the initial image look good as a starting point. The net result of these adjustments can look like you have clipped channels when in fact you may have less than optimal exposure in the raw file, this may be as much as 1.5 stops less than optimal. The Rawdigger histogram shows an accurate view of your raw image data without any additional rendering Totally agree. I can tweak the ACR to not blow out any channels, but that gets me a very, very dark image. The questions still are why does the haze reduction in 16-bit results in the green patches that are not maintained when I save the file and do the blown out areas have anything to do with that (I think they do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) Andrew, The green issue happens to several images, but it seems to happen only when the images have blown out areas in the highlights. Pure speculation, but I could see this happen if the OOG warning feature in Photoshop was not totally removed in the process of "dumbing down" the program to become Photoshop Elements. And more speculation: I don't think it is an image file issue, but a PSE issue. Edited March 7, 2023 by frans_waterlander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyW Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 This old fellow is going to get some rest as it is past curfew but will check back tomorrow 😴 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, frans_waterlander said: Andrew, The green issue happens to several images, but it seems to happen only when the images have blown out areas in the highlights. No on this end; the test image I provided has paper white (RGB 255) all over it. There is no issue with the green overlay. And in your image, only the Red channel is clipped as seen below: Edited March 7, 2023 by digitaldog Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Go back to the raw. Render it 16-bit, ProPhoto RGB, and try again in Elements. Same green, less, no green? Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, digitaldog said: Go back to the raw. Render it 16-bit, ProPhoto RGB, and try again in Elements. Same green, less, no green? Elements only supports sRGB and Adobe RGB. The green patches appear in both in 16-bit after haze removal. And yes, it seems to happen when only the red channel is clipped in highlight areas. Edited March 7, 2023 by frans_waterlander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 10 minutes ago, frans_waterlander said: Elements only supports sRGB and Adobe RGB. The green patches appear in both in 16-bit after haze removal. And yes, it seems to happen when only the red channel is clipped in highlight areas. Camera Raw, not Elements. Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, digitaldog said: Camera Raw, not Elements. PSE only supports sRGB and Adobe RGB for importing camera files, therefor the ACR version I have (supposed to be the most recent, 13.0.0.612) doesn't allow me to choose Prophoto RGB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 It's your image data (why no idea yet...) I render a raw in Elements version (crippled version) of Adobe Camera Raw, and the overlay shows clipping in the red channel. Set for 16-bit. Open in Elements, and run Haze Removal: no issues, no green overlay. So what's up with that PSD of yours? The next step is to upload the raw. Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) I've tried nearly half a dozen 16-bit documents, but can't reproduce what shows up in your one document. This is a sample of many images, 16-bit, Adobe RGB (1998) zero issues in Elements: Try it. http://www.digitaldog.net/files/2014PrinterTestFileFlat.tif.zip This is another sample of many images, 16-bit, ProPhoto RGB and again, zero issues in Elements: Try it. http://www.digitaldog.net/files/Gamut_Test_File_Flat.tif Test_File_Flat.tif Yes or no; you see the green? Edited March 7, 2023 by digitaldog Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 28 minutes ago, frans_waterlander said: therefor the ACR version I have (supposed to be the most recent, 13.0.0.612) ... As you can see, no it isn't. 14.4 is. Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted March 7, 2023 Author Share Posted March 7, 2023 And here is the RAW file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/el8hxdgc8acgvnr/AZsunsetRAW.NEF?dl=0 Trying your images is next. Tried to download updated ACR version, but it crashed the program and after recovery, the same old version still shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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