Shooting Bw indoor music concert no flash what film should I use and exposure settings ?

[monica_alonso]

I am shooting indoor concert pics using BW no flash the lighting is very unpredictable a lot of flash lighting strobes etc movement etc . I typically use HP 5 or tmax 400 and at times tx400 . I believe 3200 is a choice also but have not tried it indoors no flash . I typically use a point and shoot with flash and results are ok but sometimes flash isn’t allowed certain places. Also what fstop and shutter speed should I be using 

Edited November 9, 2022 by monica_alonso

[AJG]

Why shoot film for this?  Digital is a much better choice for this kind of work.  But if you are going to shoot film most point and shoot cameras aren't your best option.  Look for an SLR and some fast prime lenses which should help with the difficult lighting conditions that you face in those areas. As for film, I used to shoot Tri-X for theater shots.  If grain is acceptable you can try faster film.  Be aware that "pushing " film by overdeveloping it doesn't increase its speed or sensitivity, it just increases contrast and blocked up highlights. I can't tell you what f/stop or shutter speed to use since that will depend on the place and the lighting that is present.

[Gary Naka]

Impossible to tell you what exposure to use, cuz we don't know the light level where you are going to shoot at.

[Jochen_S]

T-Max & Delta 3200 are on the grainy end of the rainbow but surely a better choice than camera shake out of focus. 

Exposure: Show up early, make puppy eyes to the stage technician begging them to turn the lights up "a little" for you hop on the stage and take incidentnreadings of whatever you'll have to expect. 

If thats no option: Spot meter a performer's face. 

Settings: I 've been to ISO 1600, 35/2 wide open, 1/30sec gigs. So if you are ditching your P&S for something meterless like an M2 or 4-P, maybe even get a 35mm Sumilux?

I'm old. Back in the 80s film was all we had to shoot concerts with. Been there, got no band t-shirts because guess where my money went... I stopped using film for concert photography when I was able to afford a 2nd early DSLR, still with a very limited buffer but IBIS and slightly faster writing. I got a 24/1.8 and 50/1.4 for those crop bodies. Digital improved further since then, when I had to be happy with a post card from a denoised ISO 1600-3200 file. Even the 1st Monochrom (3rd is out, 4th expected) delivers acceptable results (beyond film) at ISO 5000, which can be still pretty limiting; when things get a little dim on stage handholding telephoto lenses is no real option anymore i.e. I don't get the 1/500sec I'd need. To bring results home I 'd rather put IS zooms on an EOS that also reaches even insaner ISO settings. (And I guess I 'll buy a mirrorless, rumored to nail focus on eyes with wide open lenses, after 2-3 gigs)

Concert photography involves a lot of spray and pray, trying to nail the right moment, focus and get that shot hand held and I believe you easily spend more on just film than the ticket would have been... Without a guarantee for stunning keepers. Film ain't dead. I'm just suggesting to summon your band in suitable broad daylight and stage some cover shots for a medium format camera instead of covering concerts on 35mm, spending fortunes on results that all in all will suck or serve as a crutch for your memory of shots you missed. 

There are concerts with acceptable lighting too. Since ISO 400 is cheaper, I'd bring some along, if I have reasonably fast lenses &/ a 2nd or 3rd body. But wide shots, framing (almost) the entire band with only one person kind of in focus suck too. 

Good luck and have fun! 

Not sure what you were asking for, settings wise. When I am metering less than 1/30 f2 I'll pack even the 35mm up. 90mm requires surely a 1/250. Who gets theirs focused at f2 or even wider? A 180mm would need a 1/500 and since there is usually no light its a good idea to grab a film camera handling a 70-200/2.8 VR/IS. 

[rodeo_joe1]

Seth Lakeman at a recent gig. Shot at f/2 with 135mm lens. Sony A7Riv - ISO 800 and 1/100th second shutter speed. IBIS or a VR lens will take care of any camera shake. 

Shot from the back of the hall to get over the heads of the crowd. Here's the full-frame:

There's no way to get tight crops like the above from film. And no way to adjust the skin tones nicely against 'orrible stage lighting with B&W film. Not unless you carry a bunch of filters with you.

If you can get closer to the stage with a clear view, then you don't need an expensive hi-rez camera like the A7r4. It just helps. As does a good wide aperture lens. The Samyang 135mm f/2 I used is ridiculously sharp and an absolute bargain.

Forget film if you're serious about shooting concerts and other stage performances. There are enough variables to cope with without being limited to a gritty image and a pathetic EI rating. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by rodeo_joe1

[monica_alonso]

13 hours ago, Jochen1664876637 said:

T-Max & Delta 3200 are on the grainy end of the rainbow but surely a better choice than camera shake out of focus. 

Exposure: Show up early, make puppy eyes to the stage technician begging them to turn the lights up "a little" for you hop on the stage and take incidentnreadings of whatever you'll have to expect. 

If thats no option: Spot meter a performer's face. 

Settings: I 've been to ISO 1600, 35/2 wide open, 1/30sec gigs. So if you are ditching your P&S for something meterless like an M2 or 4-P, maybe even get a 35mm Sumilux?

I'm old. Back in the 80s film was all we had to shoot concerts with. Been there, got no band t-shirts because guess where my money went... I stopped using film for concert photography when I was able to afford a 2nd early DSLR, still with a very limited buffer but IBIS and slightly faster writing. I got a 24/1.8 and 50/1.4 for those crop bodies. Digital improved further since then, when I had to be happy with a post card from a denoised ISO 1600-3200 file. Even the 1st Monochrom (3rd is out, 4th expected) delivers acceptable results (beyond film) at ISO 5000, which can be still pretty limiting; when things get a little dim on stage handholding telephoto lenses is no real option anymore i.e. I don't get the 1/500sec I'd need. To bring results home I 'd rather put IS zooms on an EOS that also reaches even insaner ISO settings. (And I guess I 'll buy a mirrorless, rumored to nail focus on eyes with wide open lenses, after 2-3 gigs)

Concert photography involves a lot of spray and pray, trying to nail the right moment, focus and get that shot hand held and I believe you easily spend more on just film than the ticket would have been... Without a guarantee for stunning keepers. Film ain't dead. I'm just suggesting to summon your band in suitable broad daylight and stage some cover shots for a medium format camera instead of covering concerts on 35mm, spending fortunes on results that all in all will suck or serve as a crutch for your memory of shots you missed. 

There are concerts with acceptable lighting too. Since ISO 400 is cheaper, I'd bring some along, if I have reasonably fast lenses &/ a 2nd or 3rd body. But wide shots, framing (almost) the entire band with only one person kind of in focus suck too. 

Good luck and have fun! 

Not sure what you were asking for, settings wise. When I am metering less than 1/30 f2 I'll pack even the 35mm up. 90mm requires surely a 1/250. Who gets theirs focused at f2 or even wider? A 180mm would need a 1/500 and since there is usually no light its a good idea to grab a film camera handling a 70-200/2.8 VR/IS. 

I’ve shot a couple shows already with tmax and delta 400 with a point and shoot , I have many slrs and tlrs but wanted something easy and fast considering the hardcore and metal shows I go to are very difficult to shoot considering movements getting pushed lights etc but I haven’t tested how it would turn out if I used my slr with no flash , the lights are not steady a lot of strobes flashing movement of lights it’s almost impossible to meter those conditions but wanted to see if anyone had already tested this , it’s definitely a trial and error for me at this point then . These shots are with a Minolta point and shoot 

[rodeo_joe1]

Stage lighting may be awkward to cope with, but it's a lot more dramatic than awful on-camera flash. 

This is 2022. Why limit your pictures by using 170 year old technology?

Also, capturing in colour allows you to 'correct' Stage lighting if necessary, and filter to a good tonal range during B&W conversion. A monochrome  camera still has a fixed spectral response, like B&W film, that doesn't offer that flexibility. 

Edited November 10, 2022 by rodeo_joe1

[monica_alonso]

On 11/9/2022 at 3:46 AM, Jochen1664876637 said:

T-Max & Delta 3200 are on the grainy end of the rainbow but surely a better choice than camera shake out of focus. 

Exposure: Show up early, make puppy eyes to the stage technician begging them to turn the lights up "a little" for you hop on the stage and take incidentnreadings of whatever you'll have to expect. 

If thats no option: Spot meter a performer's face. 

Settings: I 've been to ISO 1600, 35/2 wide open, 1/30sec gigs. So if you are ditching your P&S for something meterless like an M2 or 4-P, maybe even get a 35mm Sumilux?

I'm old. Back in the 80s film was all we had to shoot concerts with. Been there, got no band t-shirts because guess where my money went... I stopped using film for concert photography when I was able to afford a 2nd early DSLR, still with a very limited buffer but IBIS and slightly faster writing. I got a 24/1.8 and 50/1.4 for those crop bodies. Digital improved further since then, when I had to be happy with a post card from a denoised ISO 1600-3200 file. Even the 1st Monochrom (3rd is out, 4th expected) delivers acceptable results (beyond film) at ISO 5000, which can be still pretty limiting; when things get a little dim on stage handholding telephoto lenses is no real option anymore i.e. I don't get the 1/500sec I'd need. To bring results home I 'd rather put IS zooms on an EOS that also reaches even insaner ISO settings. (And I guess I 'll buy a mirrorless, rumored to nail focus on eyes with wide open lenses, after 2-3 gigs)

Concert photography involves a lot of spray and pray, trying to nail the right moment, focus and get that shot hand held and I believe you easily spend more on just film than the ticket would have been... Without a guarantee for stunning keepers. Film ain't dead. I'm just suggesting to summon your band in suitable broad daylight and stage some cover shots for a medium format camera instead of covering concerts on 35mm, spending fortunes on results that all in all will suck or serve as a crutch for your memory of shots you missed. 

There are concerts with acceptable lighting too. Since ISO 400 is cheaper, I'd bring some along, if I have reasonably fast lenses &/ a 2nd or 3rd body. But wide shots, framing (almost) the entire band with only one person kind of in focus suck too. 

Good luck and have fun! 

Not sure what you were asking for, settings wise. When I am metering less than 1/30 f2 I'll pack even the 35mm up. 90mm requires surely a 1/250. Who gets theirs focused at f2 or even wider? A 180mm would need a 1/500 and since there is usually no light its a good idea to grab a film camera handling a 70-200/2.8 VR/IS. 

Hi yea so I listed down below the results of the point and shoot with flash on . I’m trying to see what the out come would be with my Minolta slr without flash I haven’t tested that yet , even if I could meter on stage etc the lighting is so unpredictable with strobes and flashing lights etc , I was trying to see if anyone has shot like this before etc . I’m going to just open the lens much I can and doing maybe 1/125 or 1/200 . Would that make sense ?

[AJG]

Getting the exposure right won't be easy but experience will help.  If your camera has a spot meter this will be useful since stage lighting is usually very high contrast and an averaging exposure reading will usually overexpose the star of the show who will often be lit by a follow spot to keep the attention on him/her.  The college theater where I shot production stills for many years usually needed exposures like 1/60 @ f/2.8 for lots of things but would go up to 1/500 @ f/4 in some situations with Tri-X at 400. Even if you want to shoot film, I would still recommend trying digital (shot at the film ISO ratings that you expect to use) and see what you get.  This will help a lot when you actually shoot film.   But I will tell you that the quality of my results improved dramatically when I switched to digital and could use ISO 1600 or 3200 for decent looking images.

[Robin Smith]

Meter on the face + a stop. Hope the lights don't change much (probably won't if the band is not famous). Colored lights will be very dim. Wait for white light, Shoot those in the light (poor drummers). Shoot with wide open aperture, hold camera steady. A film like XP2 has a very wide latitude (50-800) so can take over and underexposure nicely. Keep metering and trim exposures to match, some stage lighting can be very bright, so if you are shooting a 3200 film you may get overexposure if not careful. Experience only goes so far, as each venue is different. Try to get close so you don't have to use a long lens (camera shake issues).