New Grey Market w/Seller 1 yr warranty vs Used w/Seller 180 day warranty

[mike_halliwell]

17 hours ago, BeBu Lamar said:

Nikon never asked if it's grey market and even if you give them the serial number and ask them if it's grey market they wouldn't know. However, after you sent it in they somehow know that it's grey market and refuse to fix it. 

Guess that doesn't quite gel with this statement.

Unless someone is on a postal kickback!

[q.g._de_bakker]

6 minutes ago, mike_halliwell said:

Guess that doesn't quite gel with this statement.

Unless someone is on a postal kickback!

Indeed. Seeing that Nikon USA itself puts, or has Nikon, the manufacturer, put the "US" designation on the box, alongside the serial number(s), i would not put too much confidence in claims that even Nikon USA would not know. They do.

[AlanKlein]

1 hour ago, mike_halliwell said:

Humm, so if a genuine US buyer throws away the box, they can't get it fixed?

 

Mike, Sure they can because the serial number on the camera tells Nikon repair service where the camera was originally sold.  They don't need to see the box. The box with the same serial number and USA imprinted on the box let's you know that's it's a genuine USA sold product, not gray.  

 

I never checked.  But if you buy a Nikon second hand without the box, you ought to be able to contact Nikon before you buy it and ask them if the warranty is still valid and whether it's not a gray unit or not. 

 

Also it's a good idea to file your purchase warranty with Nikon for new cameras you bought.

[Mary Doo]

4 hours ago, AlanKlein said:

But if you buy a Nikon second hand without the box, you ought to be able to contact Nikon before you buy it and ask them if the warranty is still valid and whether it's not a gray unit or not.

Nikon warranty is good for the original purchaser only.  It is not transferrable to subsequent owners.

Re repair:  As we discussed many times, this is not a serious issue because one can get the equipment fixed by a  Nikon authorized repair shop (though not Nikon USA) anyway, grey or black or red.  

[ilkka_nissila]

On 10/22/2022 at 3:06 PM, NHSN said:

Really? If I were to travel to the US with my EU purchased Z6ii, I couldn’t get authorized Nikon service, even if I wanted to pay? 

You can, if you bring the original purchase receipt. It will show that you purchased it in the EU rather than from a US dealer who imported it gray.

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by ilkka_nissila

[ilkka_nissila]

5 hours ago, Mary Doo said:

Nikon warranty is good for the original purchaser only.  It is not transferrable to subsequent owners.

This is the case in the USA, but in the EU, for example, warranties are not tied to the original purchaser.  It's likely one of the reasons for the higher prices in the EU area.

[mike_halliwell]

Just how long would it take anyone to fake the box label well enough to convince a buyer it's a genuine US import.  You'd only know you've been conned when you try and get it fixed!

I gather Nikon WON'T tell you where the serial number was sold.  It's not in their interest to tell you is it!

1 hour ago, ilkka_nissila said:

It's likely one of the reasons for the higher prices in the EU area.

Not sure where this puts the UK at the mo'....😱

[ilkka_nissila]

1 hour ago, mike_halliwell said:

Just how long would it take anyone to fake the box label well enough to convince a buyer it's a genuine US import.  You'd only know you've been conned when you try and get it fixed!

I gather Nikon WON'T tell you where the serial number was sold.  It's not in their interest to tell you is it!

Not sure where this puts the UK at the mo'....😱

You could always apply for EU membership again. I'm annoyed that some of the best stores are in the UK and purchasing from those stores as a customer living in the EU is a mess. I got a spare center column for my tripod from gitzospares.com, not realizing it's a UK store, it took months of sitting in a courier warehouse before they actually shipped it to me. So I'd definitely recommend rejoining, it would make my life easier. 🙂  I still subscribe to Nikon Owner magazine (Grays of Westminster's customer magazine) and it seems to arrive normally. I noticed that sometimes they now open the envelope containing the magazine, apparently the customs is checking that the product is not violating anything ...

 

Back to the topic of the thread. I am always surprised by these gray market issues with Nikon USA; don't they realize that this issue punishes second hand purchasers and affects the brand reputation negatively? Fortunately we don't have that in Finland, but we do pay quite a bit more for our Nikon products. I tend to find the best deals nowadays in stores in Germany.

[Dieter Schaefer]

17 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

s that true? The BOX really?  That's just dumb.

It is! And for all I know it is not true. First and foremost, the "US" is not imprinted on the box itself but on a sticker; the same holds for the serial number. For example, it says "D500 BK US" on that sticker and a second sticker gives the serial number; both stickers also show a bar code (which I don't think many can easily decode to find out what information is contained within). So one can very easily create a sticker with whatever camera serial number. Also, the label with "US" on it is only on camera boxes, lens boxes and boxes for other accessories do not show the "US" on the label.

17 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

Surely, the ONLY thing that matters is the Camera's Serial number.... on the camera! Not everyone keeps the box!

Well, only Nikon has the information which serial number passed through the official import channel. The ONLY information that does so for a buyer whether or not the Nikon USA warranty card is included - so when buying used, that's what the buyer should look for and the seller provide. Sure, it can be faked too. In the end, one finds out whether or not the item is gray when Nikon USA refuses to repair it

[Dieter Schaefer]

41 minutes ago, ilkka_nissila said:

I am always surprised by these gray market issues with Nikon USA; don't they realize that this issue punishes second hand purchasers and affects the brand reputation negatively?

Nikon apparently doesn't care - as they could easily fix the issue or at the very least make it easier to identify whether or not an item is gray.

[Dieter Schaefer]

2 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

ust how long would it take anyone to fake the box label well enough to convince a buyer it's a genuine US import.  You'd only know you've been conned when you try and get it fixed!

I gather Nikon WON'T tell you where the serial number was sold.  It's not in their interest to tell you is it!

Quite correct, I'm afraid. As I already said, the info is not imprinted on the box but a sticker is used. Quite easy to reproduce with whatever serial number who want to appear legit. In the end, a matching set of serial numbers on the camera and the camera box doesn't mean much and certainly shouldn't be taken as proof that the camera was imported to the US by Nikon.

[Dieter Schaefer]

On 10/21/2022 at 8:47 PM, Rick Helmke said:

My experience with KEH has been uniformly excellent. If they sell you a grey market camera you’ll know it.

How would they - unless Nikon gives them access to their database? Sure, for those items that they imported themselves or that were disclose as gray - but for many items there's no easy that for them to have that info.

[AlanKlein]

12 hours ago, ilkka_nissila said:

This is the case in the USA, but in the EU, for example, warranties are not tied to the original purchaser.  It's likely one of the reasons for the higher prices in the EU area.

I think Europe's VAT taxes is the cause of most of the higher prices there. 

[AlanKlein]

8 hours ago, Dieter Schaefer said:

It is! And for all I know it is not true. First and foremost, the "US" is not imprinted on the box itself but on a sticker; the same holds for the serial number. For example, it says "D500 BK US" on that sticker and a second sticker gives the serial number; both stickers also show a bar code (which I don't think many can easily decode to find out what information is contained within). So one can very easily create a sticker with whatever camera serial number. Also, the label with "US" on it is only on camera boxes, lens boxes and boxes for other accessories do not show the "US" on the label.

Well, only Nikon has the information which serial number passed through the official import channel. The ONLY information that does so for a buyer whether or not the Nikon USA warranty card is included - so when buying used, that's what the buyer should look for and the seller provide. Sure, it can be faked too. In the end, one finds out whether or not the item is gray when Nikon USA refuses to repair it

Buy from reputable dealers like B&H. 

[q.g._de_bakker]

11 hours ago, Dieter Schaefer said:

Quite correct, I'm afraid. As I already said, the info is not imprinted on the box but a sticker is used. Quite easy to reproduce with whatever serial number who want to appear legit. In the end, a matching set of serial numbers on the camera and the camera box doesn't mean much and certainly shouldn't be taken as proof that the camera was imported to the US by Nikon.

It's possible to fake anything. Even Nikon D800E cameras, remember?

But it takes effort. And knowing why you would want to do that, and what to fake, and how.

So yes, it - the box - provides a level of security.

[Rick Helmke]

Dieter I can’t say for sure how they know but they’ve been at this a long time and told me at least once that a camera I was interested in was grey market. It’s an important thing to know and caused me to get a different one they indicated was US market. There has to be a reasonable way to tell because of the limitations Nikon USA puts on repair and warranty.

 

Rick H.

[BeBu Lamar]

I have heard this before and now a member from the other photo forum brought it up again.

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-756407-1.html#13528888

 

[mike_halliwell]

I guess the only reason they might want it physically is to check the Internal ID No, which does appear on EXIF (but could be changed I guess).

The bottom Serial Number 'sticker' could be faked, just like the printed box info.

[BeBu Lamar]

3 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

I guess the only reason they might want it physically is to check the Internal ID No, which does appear on EXIF (but could be changed I guess).

The bottom Serial Number 'sticker' could be faked, just like the printed box info.

I guess so. If the number is burned in ROM then it can't be changed unless someone replace the ROM chip. 

[glen_h]

On 10/26/2022 at 1:27 PM, mike_halliwell said:

Humm, so if a genuine US buyer throws away the box, they can't get it fixed?

 

I think it means that when you buy it, you check that the serial number matches the box. 

After that, you can throw the box away.

 

Reminds me, though, not so many years ago I bought a used D700, which came with the box. 

Some people do keep the box the whole time they own things.  If you are planning to resell

the camera, and want the new owner to know that it isn't gray, then keep the box.

[glen_h]

On 10/21/2022 at 5:47 PM, Rick Helmke said:

Grey market means Nikon USA won’t work on it all, not under warranty and not for a price. I believe it’s still true that you’ll have to find an independent repair facility or send it to Japan. My experience with KEH has been uniformly excellent. If they sell you a grey market camera you’ll know it.

 

Rick H.

Maybe I don't understand "independent repair facility".

 

Not long after I bought my new Nikon FM, the shutter locked up.  I found the official list,

and there was a nearby official repair facility.  It wasn't owned by Nikon, but authorized.

 

Using an authorized facility meant that they could do the repair under warranty, no charge to me.

 

As far as I know, though, they can also do repairs not under warranty, and charge me for them.

 

In my case, no parts were needed.  After the repair, it was suggested to always complete

the wind cycle at the end of the roll.  That is, hold in the rewind button and finish the cycle.

 

No more problems after that.

 

I suppose there might be some parts that they are not allowed to sell, though.

 

In any case, for much equipment there are the early failures, and late (worn out) failures,

with not so much of a problem in between.  One year will get many of the early ones.

 

[mike_halliwell]

Ah, that must be why we Brits (apparently 😉) will buy, say, a Z9 in the US.... for cash. Post the empty (and light!) box back to themselves in the UK so they can return through UK Customs and (hopefully!) pay no duty.

Nikon UK doesn't mind about box info...! Warrantee repairs reside with the original buyer only.... but I guess (?) a receipt from, say, Nikon Florida (!) would be fine.

Edited November 2, 2022 by mike_halliwell

[Rick Helmke]

It’s my understanding that Nikon USA will not repair a camera or whatever that was intended for something like the UK or German market. Warranty is beside the point, they won’t work on it period. I ran into this issue some time back when our office was putting out bid notices for higher end cameras like the F4s, N90S and the D1 and 2 series camera bodies. Grey market was specifically prohibited and that’s why. We would have to send damaged or broken gear back to Japan for service and didn’t want to deal with that. I can’t say for certain that this is still the case but I stick to US market stuff for that reason.

 

Rick H.

[Mary Doo]

4 hours ago, Rick Helmke said:

We would have to send damaged or broken gear back to Japan for service and didn’t want to deal with that. I can’t say for certain that this is still the case

As mentioned multiple times in this thread and others, Nikon authorized repairs (not Nikon USA) are available in the USA.  The ones cited are in Illinois.  There may be others.  

[AlanKlein]

MY friend's $400 Nikon failed and under the warranty, Nikon just replaced the camera with a later model.  I guess the price didn't make sense for Nikon to do a repair.   I don't think they even wanted the old one back.