Nikon's Future

[rodeo_joe1]

Another aspect is that perception of a company is only as good as its local representation, and shoddy and delayed service from Nikon UK started to destroy my loyalty to the brand over a decade ago.

 

Time was when you could have a friendly phone chat to someone at Nikon UK, or get a repair swiftly done. No more. :(

[ShunCheung]

I believe Nikon needed to price the Z9 the way they did as it's Nikon's only Z camera which can confidently autofocus on action subjects for the time being and the competition has both more expensive and less expensive models which do a better job in this task than Nikon's less expensive models do in their current versions, plus Sony has a more comprehensive lens system. The Z9 kind of has to compete also with the R5, R3, A9 II and A1, and even A7 IV and R6. This won't be the case forever as without doubt Nikon will update the Z6 and Z7 series with new models sporting the new Expeed from the Z9, but for the time being their reputation relies largely on the Z9.

Prices are determined by supply and demand; that is basic economics. Nikon can neither artificially set the Z9 to $10,000, in which case they would have few takers nor artificially low at the current $5500, and they cannot keep up with the demand. The end result is that some stores are using bundles or eBay to make some extra profit while consumers either pay a higher price or wait a long time. A recent Nikon USA Z9 delivery has serial number 30084**. Therefore approximately 8500 Z9 have been delivered in the US market. I am sure a lot of those are NPS members. My best guess is that Nikon is shipping about 5000 Z9 a month worldwide. That is still considerably lower than 8000 a month for the D3 back in 2007. I am sure the pandemic and global IC chip shortage is still affecting Nikon's ability to ship more Z9 to meet the demand. Hence the $5500 price tag was set wrong.

 

I totally agree that the Z6 and Z6ii's AF are insufficient for action photography. Nikon needs to solve that problem by moving Z9's AF technology to the lower-end models. Canon's R5 has been selling well at $3900. That should be Nikon's target. It is similar to the D5/D6 and D850 relationship.

 

Concerning Joseph Smith's situation about locating a Z9, either pay the inflated price as Mary Doo suggests; at $6400, IMO the Z9 is still a good deal, especially with the new firmware 2.0 arriving in a few days. Otherwise, both Amazon and Best Buy have new Z9 stock once in a while; some people say frequently like every couple of days, but I haven't been able to verify that. For Best Buy, you need to set up an account in advance and have a credit card associated with your account. Once it shows in stock, put the Z9 in your virtual shopping cart and check out. There will be no time to type in a new credit card because the stock can be gone in the middle of your check out. I managed to catch Amazon having it in stock (at the $5500 price, sold by Amazon themselves, not some third-party inflated price) in late February and it took them about two weeks to deliver.

 

There are some apps that would poll various stores and alert you when one of them has the Z9 (and other products) in stock. Or you can check Amazon and Best Buy frequently yourself. One way or another, you need to do some work and act quickly.

[BeBu Lamar]

Mary, this is exactly what the problem is. Nikon is pricing the Z9 too low. When people such as Joseph Smith goes to Beach Camera's web site, the Z9 body-only option is back ordered, and you need to pre-order:

Nikon Z9 Full Frame FX Flagship Mirrorless Camera 45.7MP 8K Video (Body) 1669Default Title

 

However, it is available as this "bundle" for $900 more. In the bundle, they give you a cheap CFx card, some tripod and camera bag. I don't want that extra stuffs that maybe worth $200 or so, and the store pockets the extra $700.

 

Who knows how many stores are putting the Z9 they receive on eBay for extra profit, while customers are waiting forever.

And that would hurt Nikon and that is exactly what I am afraid of.

[ShunCheung]

And that would hurt Nikon and that is exactly what I am afraid of.

It "hurts" Nikon because (1) they are making less profit than they could have, and (2) it creates a lot of frustrating customers. I have sympathy for Joseph Smith. Initially I thought the Z9 should be at least $6500 to match the Sony A1 or perhaps even $7000 since it has the vertical grip built in, while that is an add-on for the A1. Even though you can get a Z9 immediately from one of those scalpers by paying well over $5500, most likely you'll feel cheated, left with a bad taste in your mouth.

 

Perhaps Nikon thought they could increase the production for the Z9 to meet the demand, hence they priced it low. Back in 2007, Nikon was initially producing 8000 D3 a month, but after a short while, they increased that to 9000 a month to meet demand. Keep in mind that they were manufacturing the D3 in Japan. Back then Nikon was making 80K D300 a month at their Thailand factory. I am sure they have a lot of manufacturing capacity in Thailand even after down-sizing from the level back in 2007, but most likely Nikon is restricted by the IC chip supply chain, especially those stacked sensors are difficult to manufacture. That is why IMO it is unlikely that Nikon can migrate the Z9's technology to lower-end models any time soon. The pandemic and all of its bad side effects, supply-chain issues have to subside first.

[hjoseph7]

If you think about it, the camera market is not that big. Well definitely not as big as the Auto, or Housing markets. To most people a camera is a Luxury item that they can do without in times of trouble. Add to the list that Cell Phones can now take excellent pictures, the HUGE camera Used market and cheap disposable camera's and Camera manufacturers are in a more dire situation. What keeps these camera manufacturers in Business, is people like you and me, camera aficionados that love photography.

 

Of course cameras are also used in businesses such as Advertising, Sports, Weddings, Real-estate, Forensic, Magazine, Travel, Portraits just to name a few which widens the market a bit, but "there are so many haircuts you can give in a small town !" .

 

Back in the 1970/1980's, the US Auto market purposely built cars that would disintegrate in about 5 years, so that the consumer would have to go into the dealership to purchase a new car, or find a better used replacement. Unfortunately, consumers got angry and began purchasing Japanese automobiles which were more reliable and lasted longer, so did Europeans.

 

That strategy backfired on the US auto industry, so they had to quickly change to become more competitive. The steady stream of income had been cut-off and now they had to work harder to attract customers. You can say the same for the Camera Business, people want quality and expect their purchases to last more than 5 years.

 

Instead of the disintegrating camera technique, camera manufacturers use the "Upgrade" to get consumers to purchase new products so they can stay in business. They can't depend solely on people wanting replacements for their worn-out gear, they also have to attract new blood. It's a tough Market out there with all the competition, although these days Nikon and Canon have pretty much cornered the Market.

 

I don't think Nikon is going anywhere(I hope). There are just too many Nikon users for that to happen. There is a limit to this Growth, Growth, Growth philosophy where a business has to keep growing to be called viable. If they can stay afloat, while making a profit and providing innovative products, maybe that is all that is needed. It's not just camera manufactures that have to deal with rising prices, we consumers have to deal with it also, to the point where we can get "priced-out" because our incomes cannot cover the cost of these new items.

[mike_halliwell]

I think the main issue is getting people to invest in the new mount. They have.

 

Nikon's pricing has always been $ cheap in relation to most European currencies. Those big price differences could be seen to encourage the grey market. Does Nikon loose out financially? Hard to tell, they get the cash from the market price they set and they sell to. Others (scalpers) buy low and sell high. Maybe Nikon should consider this issue.?

 

Too cheap in the US and too expensive in Europe? Dollar to Pound to Euro parity in Nikon pricing is daft.

 

Raise $ price and lower £, Euro etc. Same overall money take but a more even distribution....?

[Mary Doo]

However, it is available as this "bundle" for $900 more. In the bundle, they give you a cheap CFx card, some tripod and camera bag. I don't want that extra stuffs that maybe worth $200 or so, and the store pockets the extra $700.

Think you are right. I did not examine their "amazing bundle" of extra stuff carefully enough. It looks like this is the way they get away with Nikon's policy of now allowing their distributors to sell above the Nikon official price. :rolleyes:

[Mary Doo]

And that would hurt Nikon and that is exactly what I am afraid of.

Think Nikon should discourage or disallow this unethical behavior - "legal" but not. Issue some warnings...

[BeBu Lamar]

Think Nikon should discourage or disallow this unethical behavior - "legal" but not. Issue some warnings...

That was what I was afraid of since the intro of the Z9. The Z9 is a great camera and Nikon has a chance to get ahead with it but not being able to deliver them in timely manner might make it unsuccessful. As I posted my concern about this many said all manufacturers have the same problem but Sony doesn't have problem with the A1 and I don't think the R3 is having as much problem.

[ShunCheung]

That was what I was afraid of since the intro of the Z9. The Z9 is a great camera and Nikon has a chance to get ahead with it but not being able to deliver them in timely manner might make it unsuccessful. As I posted my concern about this many said all manufacturers have the same problem but Sony doesn't have problem with the A1 and I don't think the R3 is having as much problem.

The Sony A1 may have better availability, but the Canon R3 has been difficult to find also. There are a lot of complaints that the R3's availability. Canon's other problem is that the R3 is only 24MP and therefore not 8K video compatible. As a result, most Canon users are just waiting for the R1. Last year I did a couple of casual check; about 2/3 of Canon's RF lenses were constantly out of stock. At least Nikon is doing better with lenses. Most Z lenses are in stock, except for the recent releases such as the 100-400, 24-120, 400/2.8 and 800/6.3.

 

The Z 100-400 has a $2699 MSRP. Beach Camera has that in stock for $200 more on Amazon. (The seller name is in the lower right corner.) It is quite clear that they are a scalper. However, that is totally legal. It is Nikon that leaves money on the table for someone else to make.

 

I wonder how many camera stores are telling their customers that the Z9 is in short supply while they are auctioning their Z9 allocation off on eBay for an extra $1000, $2000 profit. This trend will continue until Nikon's supply can catch up with demand. Supply for the 100-400 is almost catching up; hence the mark up is relatively small.

 

[BeBu Lamar]

Now if they auction it off for more than the MSRP then can they give them warranty? Because if they sell them as authorized dealer Nikon would not let them I don't think so. If they sell them as not authorized dealer then they may come with no warranty.

[ShunCheung]

Nikon USA has a minimum advertising price (MAP), but stores are free to charge more if they choose to. There are many ways to work around those limitations, anyway. Bundle is a common vehicle. The store can give you a free, $200 memory card; thus effectively selling below MAP. Or they can include a $200 memory card but charge $900 more for the bundle, as Beach Camera does.

 

Prices are determined by supply and demand. When there is an imbalance, people will find a way to get back to balance.

Edited April 19, 2022 by ShunCheung

[Mary Doo]

stores are free to charge more if they choose to

I thought Nikon frowns on it. If that is not the case, then why not just charge more instead of bundling it with those silly appendages that are useless to most would-be Z9 owners. This practice does not help their reputation.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Mary Doo

[mike_halliwell]

I managed to catch Amazon having it in stock (at the $5500 price, sold by Amazon themselves, not some third-party inflated price) in late February and it took them about two weeks to deliver.

Without wanting to stir up the TAX issue, how much did you actually pay for it?

 

Prices in the UK are only ever shown pre-tax(es) for business users who are VAT registered, eg. things like building and plumbing supplies etc. eg. I pay £1 for a brick, builder pays 80p, but the brick has both prices shown for it.

 

So, Nikon sets the price post-TAX in the UK, and pre-TAX in the US?? So I guess Nikon actually receives £5299 or $5500 for each cam sold?

 

What the registered Nikon seller buys them for is a secret.....;)

[ShunCheung]

Without wanting to stir up the TAX issue, how much did you actually pay for it?

The sales tax in the town I live is 9.13%. You can do the math.

 

The problem is that in the US, the sales tax differs from town to town. The California portion of my sales tax is 6%; the county takes a cut and the city takes a cut. If I picked up the Z9 from a camera store two towns away, the total sales tax would be like $10 more than shipping to my home.

 

I could have bought from B&H with their PayBoo card and they would pay my sales tax, but the wait would be a few months. That is another way a store can practically sell below the minimum price Nikon USA sets.

Edited April 19, 2022 by ShunCheung

[mike_halliwell]

I could have bought from B&H with their Payboo card and they would pay my sales tax, but the wait would be a few months.

$500 versus a few months wait.......hummmm...tricky....:eek:

[ShunCheung]

Here is another example, Norman Camera, which is a Nikon USA Professional Dealer with two stores in Michigan, is also selling the Z-mount 100-400mm S at $2896.95, just like Beach Camera. That price is precisely $200 over the MAP. But even at that somewhat higher price, it is currently out of stock. The shortage for the 24-120mm/f4 S and 100-400mm S is easing, but unfortunately not for the Z9 yet.

 

[mike_halliwell]

Add to the list that Cell Phones can now take excellent pictures

This is an oft repeated old chestnut and only partially true.

 

Yes they can, but I've yet to see even the most expensive phone make useful pix over 150mm EQ focal length.

 

Fine as a walkaround, tourist camera, but wildlife etc, nah....;)

[Mary Doo]

The problem is that in the US, the sales tax differs from town to town. The California portion of my sales tax is 6%; the county takes a cut and the city takes a cut. If I picked up the Z9 from a camera store two towns away, the total sales tax would be like $10 more than shipping to my home.

Crazy isn't it? Living in MA now I only need to pay the State tax of 6.25%. If I driver a little further to New Hampshire, there is no (zero) tax.

[Mary Doo]

Given the demand for the Z 9 vs its supply, if I had been the CEO of Nikon I would have set its price higher AND I would not have limited sales to just NPS members.

If I were the CEO of Nikon (lol) I would make it a policy to penalize distributors who scalp.

[joseph_smith3]

I have read the comments on this topic with great interest. I looked at Mary Doo's suggestion to buy a "package" that included stuff I did not want or need just to get the Z9 especially since the other items of the package were over priced. Personally I do not like to deal with retailers who offer such sales strategies, but that is me.

 

Given the demand for the Z 9 vs its supply, if I had been the CEO of Nikon I would have set its price higher AND I would not have limited sales to just NPS members.

[mike_halliwell]

Crazy isn't it? Living in MA now I only need to pay the State tax of 6.25%. If I driver a little further to New Hampshire, there is no (zero) tax.

Yes it is!!

 

But I guess you can't bring it back across a State Boundary without some $$ payment?

[mike_halliwell]

Don't think I need to pay the tax if I buy it in New Hampshire from a retailer.

So, who in their right mind doesn't do just as you suggested?

 

Shun's 'cost' was over $500, that's enough for a Z TC 1.4!

[Mary Doo]

But I guess you can't bring it back across a State Boundary without some $$ payment?

Don't think I need to pay the tax if I buy it in New Hampshire from a retailer. However, if I buy it online, then there will be a State sales tax based on the shipping address. There used to be none, but the government has caught on. :rolleyes:

 

However, if I buy a car in New Hampshire, with my registration being in another State, then my State's tax rate would apply.

[Mary Doo]

I could have bought from B&H with their PayBoo card and they would pay my sales tax, but the wait would be a few months. That is another way a store can practically sell below the minimum price Nikon USA sets.

I wonder how PayBoo is handling the tax issue. I am not sure if B&H is just absorbing it.