Are photos capable of abstraction?

[pavel_l.]

…To convey more abstract thoughts, I think, is to figure out what to withhold. It is to focus the photo away from the objectness of the elements in the photo.

 

or to use a new abstract language (e.g. suprematism) to convey your story.

Edited February 15, 2022 by pavel_l.

[je ne regrette rien]

or to use a new abstract language (e.g. suprematism) to convey your story.

For a common understanding:

suprematism noun

1. the Russian abstract art movement developed by Kazimir Malevich c. 1915, characterized by simple geometrical shapes and associated with ideas of spiritual purity.
   

Example:

 

@pavel_l. would you elaborate on how to use this particular language, which is specific to the art of painting, in photography?

 

The language of Fan Ho comes to mind

(the shadow was added in the darkroom)

 

Or Cartier-Bresson, for that matter.

These photos do not appear to be abstract (in my opinion), but maybe you can help us taking a different point of view.

[samstevens]

"I mean the supremacy of pure feeling in creative art. The visual phenomena of the objective world are, in themselves, meaningless; the significant thing is feeling.”

—Kazimir Malevich

 

“I realized that the "thing" and the "concept" were substituted for feeling and understood the falsity of the world of will and idea”

—Kazimir Malevich

 

Interesting that Malevich even went after the "concept" in art.

 

The challenge for a photographer may not be to do away with the thing. It's to understand the universe of ways the thing will and can be transformed.

These photos do not appear to be abstract (in my opinion), but maybe you can help us taking a different point of view.

They are abstract in the sense that I see in each a situation where the photo itself is the subject and the geometries play a significant role in the expression of feeling.

this particular language, which is specific to the art of painting

One language is translated into another all the time. Translations are imperfect, which is perfectly ok.

[pavel_l.]

@pavel_l. would you elaborate on how to use this particular language, which is specific to the art of painting, in photography?

 

I used supermatism as a bold example of assigning the new/specific meaning to the objective (related to objects) entities, this process is inseparable from any genre of art up to some degree, as was mentioned in this discussion. I should agree that photography has less options for its disposal in compare to painting.

 

The language of Fan Ho comes to mind

(the shadow was added in the darkroom)

 

I do not know what did Fan Ho try to conveyed with shadow: to create an accessory to the main object (woman at the wall) or to show the flow of attention or energy.

 

Or Cartier-Bresson, for that matter.

These photos do not appear to be abstract (in my opinion), but maybe you can help us taking a different point of view.

I'm not sure if I understood your arguments correctly for this photo, but you can consider the leading lines included in this frame as abstract narrative, up to some extent. It is always possible to look at any art as multilayered product.

[samstevens]

Right now it's only a notion, but I think I can get the money to make it into a concept, and later turn it into an idea.

—Woody Allen

[Allen Herbert]

Really, you should post your own photography. Sort of sad you have to depend on others.

 

Methinks, you are lost in space. With the strangeness of that place. Yet, you ,continue with endless wordsmithing, of banality. What the monkeys are you talking about? The wordsmiths will join in, because they just love spouting....full stop.

 

Use your own photos. Do not use others as a crutch.

 

Serious talented greats; do not use their photos as a crutch ..Disrespect.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Allen Herbert

[Allen Herbert]

Understand what is abstract photography is. A start at the beginning.

 

Abstract photography.

 

"Abstract photograph may isolate a fragment of a natural scene in order to remove its inherent context from the viewer, it may be purposely staged to create a seemingly unreal appearance from real objects, or it may involve the use of color, light, shadow, texture, shape and/or form to convey a feeling, sensation or impression".

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Allen Herbert

[Allen Herbert]

Simplistic understanding.

 

Your photo posted has zero to do with with abstract photography.

 

Good photo though.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Allen Herbert

[samstevens]

Was pondering the Woody Allen quote, which I could see him devoting a scene in a movie to, perhaps samstevens played by Diane Keaton (she's got the right wardrobe for it, and the figures are amazingly similar).

 

Anyway, I read a bit about ideas and concepts.

Idea comes from the Greek for form or pattern, originally from the root for to see. Mental picture is a description given to idea. Idea is also associated with impression. The Greeks were already foreseeing a connection between photography and thinking, at least among some of its adherents, lol.

 

Concept is from the Latin to take in or to receive. Concepts may be referred to as general ideas. "Isms" tend to be concepts. Ideas can be likened, in some sense, to inklings, having a roughness to them. Concepts can be thought of as more fine-tuned, some degree of analysis having been applied.

 

Make of all that what you will. These kinds of derivations and fine distinctions can sometimes help open up vision and mind simply through wondering if not outright understanding.

[Allen Herbert]

Methinks you are playing the puppet master.

 

[mjferron]

A visual artist working with abstractions can create an image they have envisioned. A photographer must work with existing forms or arrange objects which in the end are still existing forms. It does not mean the photo cannot be abstract in nature but in the end it is a very different approach to an end result. While on the subject I am in polite disagreement with what many call abstract photos.

[samstevens]

While on the subject I am in polite disagreement with what many call abstract photos.

My sense of the OP, as his thoughts have progressed, is that it's not as much about abstract photos as it is about expressing abstract concepts through photos. In that sense, it's a good fit for photography which does, as you say, use the concrete world by its nature. How to create a photo of that concrete world in such a way as to express abstract concepts I think is what the OP is questioning.

[je ne regrette rien]

Really, you should post your own photography. Sort of sad you have to depend on others.

 

Methinks, you are lost in space. With the strangeness of that place. Yet, you ,continue with endless wordsmithing, of banality. What the monkeys are you talking about? The wordsmiths will join in, because they just love spouting....full stop.

 

Use your own photos. Do not use others as a crutch.

 

Serious talented greats; do not use their photos as a crutch ..Disrespect.

Allen, are you talking about me? You have not always been clear in the twelve-fourteen years I have been having conversations with you.

 

Is there a chance that you have not entirely understood what really I'm talking about and what my purpose is? Certainly I do not aim to produce abstract photographs, not at all. I want to use photographs, most likely very concrete ones, to convey complex and multilayered messages. My doubt I was sharing was whether photos are suitable at all for my purpose.

 

Anyway, this conversation has so far been very fruitful for me, particularly for the presentation of my work. I advanced quite a lot in how I want to set up and share what I photograph, and in particular in what regard I shall hold comments other people make on my series.

 

PS The film you post may be fun, but it misses my purpose. Abstraction for the sake of abstraction? No, thanks Allen.

Edited February 18, 2022 by je ne regrette rien

[Allen Herbert]

There is a serious confusion present here of 'abstract' with 'symbol(ic).

Are the two concepts mutually exclusive?

Can something abstract be symbolic?

Can something symbolic be abstract?

 

We are going into the weird and wonderful.. Of course they are why state the obvious? . A photograph has all these elements., Methinks, you are losing yourself in the world of wonderful. Think what makes a good photo .That, is what about, not different elements in the photo.

 

Folks change their handle frequently, which is a mystery to me. My best mate Fred (Sam) has changed his at least six times....whom have I've talking to?

 

Great photo, which tells me you are a Photographer .But who are the monkeys are you? Who have been talking to for the last 14 years. I follow the photos not the prose...prose to my mind,, without without photos is just about armchair photographers

 

Old chatter, folk covered with cobwebs, talking about the old days ,Methinks, they would have at least a photo to offer.....maybe not.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Allen Herbert

[Allen Herbert]

;Anyway, methinks, I'm on a photo place ,where folks are too scared too share their photos. Perhaps, they feel that their photos are not worthy, for the men in black wordsmiths.

 

Men in black.

 

 

[Allen Herbert]

;)

[je ne regrette rien]

You’re a funny guy Allen.

 

Methinks you should specify what “monkeys” are.

 

The core are always the pictures, nothing else.

 

Each of us sees what we know. That’s it. I cannot make the meaning of what I want to say with my photos dependent on what others think. But I can listen, not pretending to change their mind nor to explain, and read between the lines to fine tune my message. That’s what I do.

 

If you search a bit I’m sure you’ll find the little pebbles. The song, not the singer.

 

If you see what I mean.

Edited February 19, 2022 by je ne regrette rien

[Allen Herbert]

"You’re a funny guy Allen" Je

 

Hope so, I consider photography ,as a fun thing, at least for me...For some, it's navel grazing....hey, ho, everyone to their own.. Why are hiding your photos Promise, I will not look up your skirt. My Mate fred, can be a bit fruity thought. He just likers likes to make sure.

 

Anyway, really good photo you posted. Thanks, I enjoyed .

 

Still do not have a clue who you are...maybe the intrepid Phil.

Edited February 19, 2022 by Allen Herbert

[Allen Herbert]

There's an old piano which plays behind the green door;)

 

[Allen Herbert]

Phillip, among many names, sort of like that bloke called legion in the good book.

 

Terrific photographer going to different places.

[Allen Herbert]

Big compliment indeed from Q.G

 

The perfective man. Often not the most cheery of folk, but hey ho, you got to love him. Straight to the point.

 

Put a word in for him;) Nice word.

[Allen Herbert]

 

Something, something......a place in time, to take you ,somewhere else.

 

Drift away.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Allen Herbert

[je ne regrette rien]

Allen, this is a philosophy forum. Words about abstract and symbolic concepts and about something very concrete: life. Related to photography, but still a philosophy forum.

 

You and your friend q.g., you probably better come to terms with this basic fact.

[je ne regrette rien]

Let’s go back to the river.

As a matter of fact, as the old man has mentioned, there is the river. The river is the guiding element of this series.

 

It was a walk that conveyed a number of stimuli, which were processed on the way and portrayed according to the feelings at the time and the technical knowledge and tools at hand.

 

The series is made of around sixteen photographs, which all seek to embed multiple layers and express the message that came towards me while I was on my way.

 

The first time I presented it in a portfolio review I realised that the underlying message on the layers wasn’t understood at all. And that was mainly due to the lack of understanding of I was showing. My profile picture comes from that series and it is highly charged symbolically (it’s not abstract by any means), but this wasn’t really understood.

 

Not my fault at all.

[q.g._de_bakker]

Allen, this is a philosophy forum. Words about abstract and symbolic concepts and about something very concrete: life. Related to photography, but still a philosophy forum.

 

You and your friend q.g., you probably better come to terms with this basic fact.

And you better understand the basic fact that you are indeed confusing "symbolic" with "abstract". In a rather inconsistent way too.

So let us add "confusing" to "abstract" and "symbolic". Are photographs capable of confusion? Why, yes of course. Can photographers be confused when they try to understand what they are doing? Apparently so.

Edited February 20, 2022 by q.g._de_bakker